Northstar

I could see the "Blue Devil" being mid-engined. It gives it a more exotic feel and the ability to be higher-performing than a front-engined car. That would easily command the $100+k price tag that some don't feel the C6 Blue Devil is going to be able to command (though they are wrong, IMO).

Retail: HHR: 26493 PT: 22453 Selling more to rental companies isn't something to be proud of :AH-HA_wink:

Don't be surprised to see something a bit bigger and similar to the Equinox (in terms of platform type) replace the TB/Envoy.

http://www.fleet-central.com/af/stats2007/trucks_web.pdf By a slim margin, but the Silvy isn't the one with $4k on the hood. I predict the F-Series' run is ended this year.

The Z06 sells well because it offers performance better than or comparable to cars that cost 3x as much. The Z06 would not sell well if it cost the same as those cars (what are you going to pick, the Z06 or F430?), which is what you're asking the G8 w/LS7 to do: sell with a price very similar to a more prestigious brand that offers a product that will be even a better performer (CTS-V). I still don't understand why all of you think it must have the LS7. Why are we against making it cheaper and still having the same performance? I guarantee you know one will care what engine it has if it's faster than the M5. Hell, you'd be able to say "this engine is similar to the Corvette Blue Devil engine" if it got the detuned LS9 instead of "it has the Z06 engine." Now which one sounds better?

Looks like you guys can talk, the HHR outsells the PT: http://www.fleet-central.com/af/stats2007/trucks_web.pdf (Page 3) Chrysler is in very bad shape. Your lineup is a start, but it needs much, much more. It could be done, but it's not going to be easy.

What do you suggest for the GXP? LS3? Even still, I don't see the reason to go LS7 over detuned LS9 that's cheaper no matter how many you want to sell.

Maybe you would, but not many people are going to buy the Pontiac. It's rather sad, but not many people who have the money to buy a $45k car are going to look at Pontiac. I'm not saying Pontiac does not need a car like this, I'm saying bringing the GTS here is not the answer. It's going to be way too expensitve to put the LS7 in it, and more cost effective by far to use a supercharged LS3 that's going to go into other things in a lot bigger volume. Essentially, putting the LS7 in the G8 is like putting the "Cadillac of engines" into a Pontiac and putting a less-expensive engine into the CTS-V. I don't see it happening. Hyundai and Subaru are luxury divisions? They might be trying, but they certainly aren't there, or even close. The Tribeca (the only vehicle that could be considered "luxury" in Subaru's lineup, IMO) sold 1166 units last month; not too impressive. The Azera isn't exactly setting the charts on fire either. Letting Pontiac go after BMW is OK, but they aren't going to beat them because the cost difference gives BMW such a big advantage in what sort of technology can be packed into the vehicle. A base Vette starts around $50k (below actually) and the Z06 starts at about $70k. That's a $20k difference, and while the Z06 has other changes too, you have to think that around $10k of that increase is due to the engine. The G8 GXP needs to be a $5k option (a la the Solstice GXP package), not a $10k package. Therefore, they need to slap a supercharger on it and call it a day. It will be nearly as effective (if not more) and cost much less. Why are we complaining about paying less for the same thing? Isn't that what we're calling for Pontiac to be about? Offering BMW performance for less? Then what is wrong with offering the same power for a lower price? I'm not against a G8 GXP at all, but I am against a G8 GXP that puts it in a price range similar to the CTS-V.

Only thing I can think of is if the fine print on the Tundra commercials says "based on 2006 MY competitors" or something like that.

But the CTS-V is also low-production by necessity and very exclusive. If this model costs $50k, who's paying Cadillac money for a Pontiac? If they can throw a supercharged LS3 in there with the same amount of power and are able to keep it at about $40k, then people would certainly buy it. I know if I was given the choice between a 516HP G8 and a 600HP CTS-V and the CTS-V was $5k more, I wouldn't be getting the G8. I agree it needs to be done, but it doesn't make any sense if it costs as much or very close to the CTS-V. I'd rather see a 430HP LS3-equipped G8 take on the SRT-8s and let the CTS-V take care of the M3 and M5 than have a bunch of $50k Pontiacs that can't be sold sitting on lots. The LS7 would not be much cheaper with the added production; they already make it as a crate engine (that costs like $15k or something without some of the hardware that comes in the Z06) and unless you want them to stop manufacturing it by hand (which isn't happening) then labor costs are not going to go down on a per-engine basis, either. MB can successful stick the 6.2 in all of their vehicles because 1) it isn't hand-built as far as I know and is therefore a lot cheaper to manufacture, 2) the name on the car reads "Mercedes Benz" and therefore is only being bought by people who can afford to spend $50k on a car without a problem and 3) the name on the car does not read "Pontiac." The CTS-V competes with the M5 more because they're both premium brands and would possibly be cross-shopped. I don't think many people go to BMW and plan to take a trip to the Pontiac dealer after they test drive an M5.

Dynos have shown that the Z06 is underrated, so I would guess it actually has 516HP.

The 360's R&D money isn't going to the Lambdas, but rather more similarly-sized crossovers.

Would this be cost-effective in the US? If you get to $45k+ in the US I think most people would opt for the CTS-V for $10k more. I agree we need it, but perhaps their is a more cost-effective way than the LS7. Perhaps a detuned CTS-V engine.

They are probably keeping them until the NG Equinox and such come.

I'd say about every other week on average. I have an orbital buffer that I use to wax it; I get water to bead on every inch of the car even after a month of so after a wax. Usually I try to wax it after washing but it all depends on how much time I have; if I know I don't have time to wax I make sure I don't get the wash too soapy or it will strip the wax.

What about an MDX? Just about anything is better than the RX...

Ehh, not sure how she got it down to those. Did she actually test drive a bunch of stuff and decide those were the best? A used SRX is definitely the best buy, my dealer had an 07 with 4k miles on it, loaded to the gills for $39k. She's not going to get that value anywhere else. I can't believe she would pick the Lexus over the BMW, Cadillac, or MB. This must be a prime example of why the RX sells so well; people just assume it's the best because it's a Lexus and never even consider the better offerings.

Glad you still like it, 98. Here was my best shot at combining the two:

Sig! I saw you talking about it in another thread so I went to the archived boards and found it. Here it is:

Yesterday it rained, so I only had to work for 4 hours. Nothing else went on for the most part.

Do something that makes you happy. You're great at drawing cars, and I would guess you like doing that, so that's what I'd suggest for you.

Yeah, I would say that the Highlander is more like the Edge, Mazda crossovers, and the Pilot. The Lambdas really are just big SUVs but unibody. There isn't much too similar to them that's unibody. None of the others listed have real 3rd rows (and I doubt the Highlander has much of one either, and certainly not as good as the Lambdas).

I think you should ask Saturn why they made their comparison how they did, and not us. This thread is pointless.

Just one click away from your link: http://www.saturn.com/comparator/compareVe...p;msrp=20595.00