Cananopie

I know- I even said in that same post GM makes the cars. In fact I said this: "GM is a holding company and doesn't even make cars truly bearing the name (of GM)." and "They are each truly seperate companies all trying to work together to gain as much of the market as possible." Without these venerable names GM wouldn't be able to sell cars under them. I know each brand doesnt have their own factory anymore, but if GM cuts one of them the name could be picked up by someone else (Think of how Ford picked up Jaguar). So these companies are not born and dead by GM, but they are close. It's because GM coordinating how they are made and what each company does so they can "gain as much of the market as possible" as I said. GM has always had a presence in each brands decision as soon as each jumped on board, just because it's a stronger presence now doesn't mean that Buick or Pontiac were more "on their own" in the 70s or 50s. GM still had the ultimate power over them and could say no to anything. They still had to build on similar platforms just as they do today. No doubt GM has each brand by the balls, but each brand still stands for something by itself and it is why there is still brand loyalty. AND if any of the brands start becoming unprofitable it is that brands problem, it is not Chevy's problem if Buick becomes unprofitable so the mass amounts of money brought in by Chevy can still go back to Chevy, it is whatever is leftover and put in to GM as a reserve that can go in to Buick to help save it but it is no other brands concern because they can just axe Buick. Toyota, Nissan, Volkwagen, Honda only have 2 companies and they need to care equally about both.

Exactly- I didn't even think about the Prius or the Insight or the Civic. These are vehicles that get their respect from their fuel efficiency even if they aren't high end luxury. If Buick recieved an alternative energy vehicle or a vehicle with better gas mileage than anybody else that'd be considered a halo car because it stands out and says something about the company. Does that mean Toyota doesn't make Avalons and Corollas? Very similar cars that Buick sells and disputable as to which is the better deal with better quality. Buick simply needs that car that stands out- in any way shape or form- from the rest... it's just more typical to see a RWD/300+HP/coupe (circle one or any combination of them) be a GM halo car. The halo car is the promise of similar style, quality, efficiency, or power in any car from that brand... think of Corvette to Cobalt or GTO to Grand Prix Civic to Accord Prius to Corolla, 350Z to Maxima... Velite to Lucerne would've fit quite well. The halo car is the pinnacle of what that company can be... and all the other vehicles carry the essence of the halo vehicle. The fact that Buick can even function without a halo car shows how much it should stay (especially since its previous halo car was not nearly as breathtaking as most halo cars for companies)

Honda and Toyota both have vehicles that generate excitement as the S2000 for Honda or even the Celica or until recenty the MR2 Spyder. The point is both these companies have their luxury version- Acura and Lexus... GM doesn't work that way. GM is a holding company and doesn't even make cars truly bearing the name. Toyota makes cars, Honda makes cars, Toyota makes Lexus, Lexus is OF Toyota... Buick is not OF Chevy. Pontiac is not OF Chevy. Cadillac is not OF Chevy. Chevy does not make Buicks and Pontiacs and Cadillacs. They are each truly seperate companies all trying to work together to gain as much of the market as possible. So if Toyota wants a really expensive Halo car they make a Lexus and, ultimately, Toyota makes the money. If Cadillac makes the same type of car the money doesn't necessarily go to Chevy, it goes to GM. Each company is made to remain profitable by itself, if Lexus doesn't sell well it is Toyota losing the money, if Toyota offs Lexus they are giving away their fight in the upper market division all together... if Buick doesn't sell well then they can chop Buick. Buick doesn't have the luxury of massive Chevy sales or Cadillac sales supporting them, if Buick isn't profitable then Buick doesn't get to stay, they can just make lower end Cadillacs or upper end Saturns to replace the gap... So Buick DOES need a halo car to produce interest. Toyota and Honda both get their interest with their only other company. It's not that Buick is making poor cars- they are higher in quality and satisfaction than any other GM company... but people don't look at Buick because Buick is not an extension of Chevy, Pontiac, or Cadillac, where their reputation already gets attached to the only other company. Buick needs an exciting car so people will say "Buick isn't boring," Buick doesn't need to improve on its quality and reputation, they're practically spotless- they need to improve only on interest. and exciting cars generate interest. and yea- even something as "not halo-car-esque" as the Celica gives that reputation to a company because they are appealing to those who like 2 door vehicles which is a completely new, seperate, and younger market than Buick is appealing to now and is something that can help people take a second look at it.

In all fairness, the safe companies are, in this order: Chevrolet Cadillac GMC Hummer I don't even think there was a slight utterance of the dismissal of these 4 brands. Saturn Pontiac Buick Saab in that order those are the 4 unsafe brands, from safest to unsafest, but all have at least 1 reason to be dismissed. Saab seems like the easiest choice to get rid of. Saab doesn't sell the cars any of the other brands do and Saab doesn't hold the fanbase any of the other 3 competitors for the axe holds. Honestly the Saab loyalists are few and far between, and so are their dealerships. However Saab doesn't produce a lot of vehicles and that is a plus for GM, they can cut one of the other 3 that seem to be doing a lot of bumping in to each other. Buick is the next obvious choice. Older loyalists, declining sales, the prejudice that Buick holds lack of excitement just seems like it'll never go away. 4 doors on a vehicle with power less than 300HP automatically means no excitement. This could easily be remedied if given a halo vehicle with either 2 doors or more than 300+ HP sedan that is RWD. The fact is as much as everybody has been wanting Buick to fail the last few years it has only surprised us. The Rendezvous has oversold what they've expected, the LaCrosse is doing very good, and the Lucerne seems to be everything people have wanted in a fullsize sedan that wasn't in the LeSabre (which was the number one full size sedan in that price range) all for a good price. The Enclave has been greeted with nothing less than awe by any one who has seen it. Atop of it all they are GM's top brand for quality amongst other things, they even exceed Cadillac. Buick is the brand that keeps GM from being a company that doesn't make Top 5 brand quality and satisfaction, and thats a pretty powerful hold in a holding division that many people seem to overlook. Everything Buick has done as of late has exceeding expectations. Even the average age buyer has significantly dropped and I no longer believe Buick has the oldest brand buyers. The only glaring exception is the halo car missing, and with that staying missing Buick can never generate any excitement and people aren't willing to give Buick a second look, so for that they are easily able to be chopped just because people aren't willing to look at a brand that doesn't have a halo car. Tell me another brand people love that doesnt have a halo car. Pontiac is right above Buick in safety of the chopping block and this is for one reason: Solstice. For this vehicle alone people are putting their faith in Pontiac that they have a better chance of surviving than the previous 2 mentioned. In fact the exact reason why Buick is below Pontiac on the chopping block is because Pontiac has the one thing Buick doesn't- a halo car. Pontiac doesn't have the quality or satisfaction ratings of Buick but they still are clinging to the "excitement" idea. But where Buick has had high quality and a successful last few years given what they expected Pontiac has not had the same, where the Rendezvous flourished, the Aztek failed. The G6 was expected to be selling much higher than it originally started with and the GTO was another initial failure. Personal feelings on the vehicles aside Pontiac wasn't selling as much as they expected. The Grand Prix seems to be doing alright but is starting to wain in age, and the Torrent is still too early to tell... however you have to go 3 pages back in the Pontiac C&G archive to even get a full discussion on it. Pontiac doesn't have Buicks quality or satisfaction or a better outlook on sales for overall vehicles (though Pontiac naturally sells more, but now both Pontiac and Buick are being shrinked to selling about the same amount of vehicles) and to top it all off- Saturn seems to be filling the gap of Oldsmobile and competing with Pontiac slightly, much more than it is competing with Buick... But Pontiac has that halo car and that almost seems worth more than any quality or satisfaction, because it keeps people wanting a Pontiac. Then there's Saturn, seemingly the safest of the 4 possible chop block brands. And undoubtably 80% of C&Gers are saying "What the hell!" 5 years ago it'd be hard for any one of us to find a reason to keep Saturn. With only 2 vehicles that hardly changed for a damn decade that seemed to only appeal to women and was a failed import fighter brand built almost completely out of plastic which was not a trend that caught on well, and on top of that a low quality and reliability rating... Saturn should have been the first to go and many of us, 5 years later, still think it should be the first to go... but something amazing has happened... Saturn is now fully GM incorporated and is finding itself not only right in Oldsmobile's deserved spot, but is the only brand that isn't one of GM's "safe" brands that everyone can agree on that it is a relatively safe brand. You're hard pressed to find someone who doesn't think the Aura is a perfect car and the Sky all over a sudden overshadows the Solstice. And mysteriously Saturn wasn't sentenced to the same dealership constraints that Buick and Pontiac were both sentenced to... in fact it seems if there's a hot item that is being kicked around GM somehow Saturn gets its grubby little hands in on it, as if it has the seniority over Pontiac or Buick. Saturn still holds many of its stigma of the past, much as Buick still has the stigma of being an old persons vehicle, Saturn has people thinking they're poor quality, cheap, poor import fighting vehicles... But Saturn has a sports division (Red line) now and they're going to be GM's brand to start out with the alternative fuel sources (Green line) which is completely innovative... Saturn is hardly even an option to consider chopping with everything it's doing for GM... but it is also the weakest brand reputation. It has one the lowest quality and satisfaction ratings for GM, but GM doesn't seem to let this bother them. Saturn could easily start to replace Pontiac or Buick had either of them be chopped. It seems like it'd be more comfortable in Pontiac's spot because they both focus on sport and not as much on quality and are in the same price range where Saturn would have to make more expensive vehicles to fit in Buick's spot with the exact opposite reputation of Buick in its spot. However if you cut Saturn you will keep MOST of the GM loyalists... if you cut Buick or Pontiac you will see a lot of people give up on GM for good, me being one of them. Personally- I'd like to see Chevy go (some bitter sarcasm there for ya). When you have identical front ends for your Impala and Monte Carlo there is nothing good coming out of the company. GM stands to lose a lot cutting any of the brands (aside from Saab, but Saab might not be enough to cut) and the wrong cut could seal the death of the once most powerful auto company in the world... (I dont consider any auto company on the brink of bankruptcy the most powerful auto company in the world anymore)

These are both great commercials! They are a commercial people would enjoy watching... has a slight sense of humor that Lexus does not have and gives Buick a more personable feel. Good job overall. My only problem is both of them show the car driving in the dark... The dark! Show off the Buick! It's hard to see!

Invicta is a car name, not the cheaper crossover sport vehicles name. You want an "old" name for it, I agree with Ven, call it Rendezvous, that was the name of a successful Buick crossover before they killed it. I also agree with Paulie- obviously there is a market for SUVs out there but come on! Give Buick at least 3 cars... 1 that isn't a 4 door sedan please for some credibility outside of the sedan buyers.

This is taken straight from the article I posted in the "Current" Buick section under the topic "Struggling to Appeal to Younger Buyers, Buick Pins its Future on Change"

Yea! Exactly! The Rendezvous was supposed to be the crappier little brother of the Aztek and people just flocked to it and left the Aztek to be a huge shame for Pontiac.

I think the article was fairly objective but a little harsh on Buick. They have done leaps and bounds to appeal to younger buyers and have succeeded these last few years. The Rendezvous alone has probably brought Buick down 10 years in average age by itself.

I know we've covered the new move on advertising Buick has started in a couple other posts, but this article is very in depth and gives a very clear look on what Buick is planning on doing so I started another topic: Buick Shifts From 'Dream' to 'Precision' By STUART ELLIOTT Published: November 18, 2005 THE struggling Buick division of General Motors is changing campaigns for the second time in little more than a year. Advertising that since fall 2004 had carried the theme "Dream up," featuring the Aerosmith song "Dream On" - up, on, who can keep track? - is being discarded in favor of a campaign proclaiming that Buick offers cars built of a quality so exacting it is "Beyond precision." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/18/business/media/18adco.html

Struggling to appeal to young buyers, Buick pins its future on change Friday, November 18, 2005 By Don Hammonds, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Buick, the linchpin around which General Motors built its empire, lately has been part of the problem rather than part of the solution for the struggling automaker. Like other GM makes, analysts say, Buick has been slow to respond to changes in market tastes, has kept cars on the market for too long without significant changes, and has a lingering consumer perception of quality control problems.... http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05322/608337.stm

Nothing exciting ever happens with Tiger Woods

I use www.photobucket.com , it's free and easy to use. You just upload the picture from your computer and once they're uploaded they will give you a web address of where it is on their server so you can copy and paste the address of the exact image and put it in the "IMG" tag here on C&G (which is up near the Bold, Italic, and Underline tags) Any other questions?

That is awesome. Just where Buick deserves to be. Here's an article if you want one. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051116/law089.html?.v=36

I'm not taking it the wrong way but when there is a 2006 Rainier, last year or not, it will not be dropped in 2006. It will be dropped in 2007 because 2006 carries a Rainier which means they have to sell them still... and last I checked, when you sell something, you should advertise for it... especially when you have to try and usher them off your lot for the 2007 vehicles next summer. There will be far more than a dime dropped in to the Rainier advertising. Nobody knows really how much any company uses on advertising. When you go to a hockey game and you see a car company advertised on the side of the wall without a dealership THAT is advertisement money NOT put in to a vehicle. And ALL car companies spend that type of money- Buick does not get free golf advertisements- the Buick open is not a free advertising event- that comes out of Buick's advertising pockets, and quite a chunk of change I'm sure. The Buick name doesn't get there because 25% of advertising goes to the Lucerne, 25 LaCrosse, 25 Rendezvous, and 25 Terraza. Does this not make sense to anyone? Advertisement is not done by single vehicle alone. I'd say probably 50% of advertising for Buick or (any company, just a guess though) would be just the BUICK name... not a vehicle. Do you honestly think they only advertise for specific vehicles... and the advertisement money is only spent on TV and internet ads? I'm sure it's out of Buick's pocket right now that has a "Red Tag Sales Event at your local Buick dealer" which is not your perfect 1/4 1/4 1/4 1/4.

There are 5 vehicles, not 4 or 2 for them to advertise. This obviously makes sense because the Lucerne is their newest product, I just thought that any article on Buick should be posted.

Apparently Buick is going to spend "well over 20% of its first-quarter advertising budget promoting the Lucerne" Here is all of the article it'll let us non-members of Automotive News will let us see... I just thought it was interesting and worthy enough to share https://www.autonews.com/buyArchives.cms?newsId=13812

hey! That's the picture I took! Very classy choice Mike. :)

I drove by one of my local Buick dealers today and the Lucerne was in their showspot. Only 1 that I saw- but still- they're definitely out.

Haha. I was just proving there's a young crowd out there for Buicks. I didn't love them til I owned my first one which was just by chance. Before that I could've cared less about any cars.

I'm 22 and I love all Buicks. haha.

I am still absolutely blown away by the fact that the Lucerne is finally something that can stand up to the Avalon. Ven pointed out that the LeSabre sales crushed, absolutely crushed, the Avalon sales for over the last decade. We're talking DOUBLE the Avalon sales on average... yet the Lucerne finally stands up to the Avalon... What in the hell? Do we just have twice as many people who like to settle for less of a bargain, a less quality vehicle? Or maybe... maybe... the LeSabre was a pretty damn good car... and the Lucerne is also one. It's good to see people finally taking Buick more seriously- but more sales is more sales. These people need to give Buick SOME credit.

I am still anticipating Josh's talk with the Buick PR guy about the 3 bil. I'm interested to hear this!

That's good to hear. I'm not the type to bash Toyota and I wouldn't accuse them of doing something like that without it being in ink in Motor Trend which is a magazine I find reliable enough for showing statistics. By default Toyota gets the benefit of the doubt by anyone who is not a GM loyalist... it's not that people are Toyota loyalists, they just tend to have the better reputation in the general public and they've seemed to use that to their advantage is what I've derived from it. General Motors had done similar when they were the preferred brand.

Thank you Ven for the sales numbers... I though that was crap the article made the Avalon seem like what everyone was buying these days instead of the LeSabre, its direct comepitor. If the Avalon was the better "Buick" then why did the LeSabre murder it in sales? Toyota also tends to give their vehicles more horsepower than they have where GM tends to say their vehicles have less power than they actually have. A recent Motortrend issue covered this and all the vehicles Toyota submitted for the unbias HP test Toyota overpowered (in other words said there was more HP in the vehicles than there was) their vehicles, and all the ones GM gave GM actually said they had less horsepower than there actually was. Toyota is using its popularity to give themselves a little extra boost because everyone trusts them so much while GM is scrutinized under a magnifying glass.