Cananopie

This is what happens when you strip all individuality from a car

Since there's a lull in the Buick forum this weekend I figured I'd post this bit of news. Not so much about the car- but you know you have a loyal fanbase when they refuse to let a murderer and a rapist take their car. http://www.lenconnect.com/articles/2005/12...news/news02.txt

I don't see how a center stack makes or breaks a car for anyone. When I look at both of them I think they both work well in the vehicle's they're in. I don't think they would be able to switch them. Both interiors are executed uniquely and they both look pretty good in my opinion. It's the feel, where things are placed, the exterior of the vehicle, and the room that are really selling people. A center stack preference argument is ridiculous and if anything the Avalon's center stack is very "busy" compared to the Lucerne's or Lacrosse's. If you haven't driven both the Avalon and the Lucerne then you're only judging based on looks and if a center stack is what makes your "Toyota quality" for you then thats great, but no reason to give the Lucerne any "con" for your preference. What about the "dated platform" actually displeases you? Fly seemed to make a good argument on why there is nothing wrong with the older platform. Nobody here is saying that the Avalon isn't a formidable contender, but you were claiming that the Lucerne is just a joke for the price and since everybody was able to combat intelligently with every dislike you have you still are trying to find minor, worthless, opinion-based problems with it. If it's just not your style (and the Toyota definitely isn't my style) then that's that... but just admit it is a fair opponent to the Avalon and not a "gimme" choice. Say what you will about Buick reputation but it exceeds Toyotas. Just because Toyota has had a more "pop-culture" reputation doesn't make it automatically the better vehicle. Buick IS becoming the better vehicle now (not that it has ever been far behind) but for quality and solid reputation Buick is now the leader in mass market brands. Buick has the statistical reputation now, if you want to cling to a past dream where Toyota was better thats fine, but Toyota is slipping. It isn't the untouchable brand anymore. Buick is there and it is equal in comparison.

No offense Turbo at all but your argument has no real basis. I never understood the petty bashing that goes on in car forums similar to what you were doing. There is no one right way to create a vehicle and thankfully the Lucerne's style is different than the Avalon's. The Avalon is a proper competitor to the Lucerne and visa versa. The quality IS there and until you find factual documentation as Ven and Fly have that the Lucerne can't even "compare" to the Avalon then your argument is baseless. You don't like the interior of the Lucerne? Fine. Nobody is making you buy one. If it doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't appeal to you. It's not like Ven and Fly are defending the Hyundai Azera or something to the Avalon. Buick is a manufacturer that is comparable to Toyota in many ways and even exceeds Toyota in qualty ratings (hence my signature) and if Buick makes a vehicle in the same price range to the Avalon then it needs to be damn competitive... Toyota has the advantage being a much more popular car company and one that typically (I'm not saying you) ignorant car buyers side on because of the word-of-mouth reputation. The word-of-mouth reputation of Buick hasn't been exactly flattering for them (old-peoples cars, etc) and for Buick to make a poor competitor to the Avalon in the same vehicle genre as the Avalon is suicide for Buick. Buick made a quality car with the Lucerne and until you find facts where the Avalon is superior in so many ways as opposed to just making accusations (probably have never even been in the car). It's fair for Ven and Fly to defend Buick because of your unjust accusations. It's not fair that you refuse to take your blinders off and see the Lucerne as the true competitor it really is.

Yea! Awesome! I'm glad you bought the Lucerne and you really are driving my current brand new dream car. I'm jealous. Seriousy- congratulations and I know you'll be happy with your purchase... Buick customers always are.

Yea, nothing new here, at least for Buick. That's a spittin' image of the Centieme, probably drawn before it was even made. The Enclave, as turbo pointed out, is supposed to have styling cues of the Centieme BUT the rumors have been from those who've actually seen the Enclave it doesn't look like the Centieme at all.

The commercial, I think, is not necessarily about the heated washer fluid... and I think thats the point. It's about giving Buick a personality. After showing both commercials to all my friends (I always make them suffer through Buick stuff) it was unanimously agreed that they liked the heated washer fluid one better... because the commercials funny! Not buckle-over laughing funny, but enough to make the watcher go "heh" and that sticks. It's basically an introduction to the vehicle- we ALL know there are more features coming up that will be advertised but this is a good initial one. #1- because someone might be so frusterated this winter that this is actually appealing... and trust me, I live near Buffalo, this type of advertising could really make someone buy a car and last I checked Buick wasn't the #1 selling vehicle in Southern California... in fact I don't think it made the top 50 brands being sold there and it's sincerely doubtful that they'll be starting to buy them due to ANY Buick commercial... it's the culture down there to buy foreign period. It's imbedded in them. Buick is sold mostly in the north, especially in the old rust-belt and this commercial will appeal to them. #2. It's a luxury feature being offered in the least expensive vehicle on the market with that feature. It's something worth noting... as is the magnetic ride control... these are things only offered in vehicles with a higher price... now it's within reach... with Buick. Each of my friends didn't enjoy the precision one as much (even though I think I like that one more) and that's because it wasn't as funny... it comes across as the standard car commercial though I like the music with it. Nothing sticks out about the precision one YET it is more informative, it shows the true nature of the car, they really did spend that much time and detail on it. But the wiper one is funny so it sticks. And I think most people are having a problem with this is because someone decided to put this on the C&G front page like Buick is spending half of its funding on promoting the washer-fluid. It's just one commercial and it's an introductory commercial, one that makes people remember the Lucerne... it's simple.

We own a LaCrosse and I actually just stepped out of it less than a couple moments ago. The only "hard" plastic in the whole car that I noticed (I was driving so I may be wrong) was behind the doorhandle. Everything else was a soft semi-malible plastic... true Razor, it's not stitched and cushioned like my Regal, but it isn't hard plastic either so Buickeight is also correct. The fact is the material used is quality material. Overall the quality trumps the Regal and honestly- who really cares whether that specific area is cushioned or not? It gives a car a certain feel but so does what the LaCrosse did and both are good.

I'm glad most everyone is in agreement with my gripe. I have absolutely no problem when something IS better than something else for that type of buyer... For example the Honda Civic is a better vehicle than the LaCrosse for those whose most important quality of a car is the gas mileage. An argument like that is something I can understand and have no problems seeing the LaCrosses inferiority in gas mileage. However attention to detail would be won over by the LaCrosse... In the case of the Avalon vs the Lucerne at LEAST say they are fair game competitors and position your reasoning on why you'd choose one over the other but don't say because "it's better" unless, of course, you have some solid reasoning... not "running your hand over the material" or whatever.

I dont know if you saw them on TV but they're a lot brighter and easier to see than on the Putfile videos Mike set up.

Yea. This is my favorite engine ever. I hope it doesn't go anytime soon, but honestly the article is right, GM is probably ready to "take her out back" like they do to any old horse...

It's comments like these where I want some God damn reasons. What entails "rich" interior and how is it so noticable with the glide of a hand? I want some proof... what makes Avalon's materials "richer" than the Lucerne's. If someone has sufficient reasoning for it, I will gladly listen and accept it... but just offhand comments like that, that basically say "Don't worry, Toyota is still better than Buick" without any sufficient reasoning bothers me. A lot of ways things are done aren't "better" or "worse" but just different and up to the opinion of the driver, such as people who bash the 3800 for things that are so miniscule in difference though there are still plenty of us out there who would never trust any engine half as much as it. It's just a reliable engine, it's not the crazy computer engines of today, and I don't have a problem with it. If you find it significantly poor on gas mileage or power it might be time to phase it out, but the 3800 is still a powerful engine that typically sits around 200 HP and the gas mileage isn't terrific but it's not the worst either, not to mention it now meets SULEV requirements. The point is people need to understand things are opinions and to openly say "this is inferior" you need some signficant proof of that.

Avalon comes out with a feature that Buick has for 9 years and advertises it. Buick comes out with a feature that is fairly new and unique... and it's embarassing for Buick?

Oh yea, and the gauges look way better than that on the LaCrosse, we have one and it screams class, that Camry already looks less sophisticated. I don't know exactly where people are getting more class from the camry aside from the obvious Nav Screen... so what, the Nav screen isn't the make-all or break-all point for most buyers... not that the LaCrosse shouldn't get one, it's just that most Camry's will not have a nav screen. Picture it without it. I honestly think the time put into the quality of Buick and the style is a lot more classier. I would say the interior of the Camry is much better than the Impala but not the LaCrosse, I still dont see it, especially in 2 poorly shot pictures.

If the 3.8 has been enough for you in the past, the 3.8 in the LaCrosse should still be enough for you. It's very quick and definitely gives you the power you're looking for when you floor it. Only when its high in RPMs do you notice a bit of a lull but unless you plan on racing it, it shouldn't be a problem. Buickguy I've driven the LaCrosse in the snow a few times and it does very well, of course tires are what really makes the difference. The traction control does the job its supposed to do very well.

Am I the only one who prefers the LaCrosses interior to the Camrys? The color wood they use is ridiculous and there is absolutely no style where the shifter is. Maybe it's just me but I think the Camry looks gaudy.

Yea! You're right! The turn signal is less tinny! I noticed that too, the whole car has a refined elegance the Regal is missing. And I promise you, just drive a LaCrosse a few times and you will prefer the instrument panel, my only complaint is I am not a fan of the little dots they use in the Driver Information Center, I like the Regal's more clear DIC. For praise on the Regal I do also love the Monsoon system very very much but I know the LaCrosse has its own system that my parents do not have in theirs that I'm sure is just as nice if not better. I do have the heated seats, sunroof, and spoiler and I do appreciate them, I really think they make the car a lot better, even the spoiler, it takes the Century image right away from the Regal. I'd only want a black LaCrosse, possibly the blue if I bought one. But for the Lucerne I'd want the all black exterior and the all black interior for the CXS or perhaps the blue exterior with the tuxedo blue/whatever other color that is, I'm still on a toss up for that. I am going to the dealership thing as well, but 90 miles! Wow! You must really love your Buicks too.

I have a 2000 Regal LSE which is loaded for what the Regal offered for at the time. I can't think of anything that wasn't on my package from the sport suspension to the dual climate control to the Spoiler and best chrome rims the Regal offered. Obviously there is a whole lot more that I'm not mentioning but I know what a top-of-the-line Regal entails (though it's now 5 years old but was only 3 years old when I bought it with only 20k miles on it). And I think I failed to mention this but my parents, whom I still live with (hooray for college, it's great not moving on with your life til it's finished) bought a LaCrosse during the GM Employee Pricing Extravaganza. It is a tan-esque CXL 2005 and they were considering a red CXS but they're people of simplicity and the extra money for the 3.6 wasn't worth it because they TRUST the 3.8 (because thats all they've owned for the last decade and a half) and it was fast enough for them. My experience with the CXL LaCrosse compared to my Regal LSE was similar to your experience with your Regal and LaCrosse you drove. I agree completely with the seats, I enjoy the lack of bottom back support the Regal provides because the lumbar support just feels weird to me in the LaCrosse. However the seats are a lot more firm than the Regal. The cluster gauge is really miles ahead of the Regal. When I first got in it I was annoyed the "5s" weren't marked but when I got back in to my Regal and my cluster gauge looked cluttered and less elegant. When you turn on the LaCrosse you don't know the engine is running, opposite of my Regal, not that my engine is particularly loud, but it's obviously noticeable. I'm noting the obvious difference between the Series 2 and Series 3 engine along with the sound deadening the LaCrosse makes the 3800 become a "proper" engine, I know many of you were worried about the lack of elegance the 3800 portrays and from my Regal to the LaCrosse there is a world of difference, any of you who do not believe it must have never sat in the LaCrosse. For more assurance, though I know personal anecdotes aren't proof of anything really, I was out to eat with my friend who is a car buff and we got in the LaCrosse and I started it and he said "Well, aren't you gonna start it?" and I said "I did." That is a real story from someone who enjoys cars, he wasn't ignorant to how engines sound when they start. When flooring it the low-end torque is really good but once you're in the higher RPMS it doesn't give the same effort where my Regal, I feel, does, but I also don't think my Regal has the same starting power as the LaCrosse. The handling is good and really the only negative things about the car is the rear seat with lack of headroom for tall people and legroom for tall people. But the problem I personally have with it compared to my Regal is the LaCrosse seems to have taken the effeminate role in the Buick vehicles while the Lucerne is now the masculine vehicle. I am basing this judgement solely on the engine which, in all actuality, is over half the car for me. Granted both vehicles have the 3.8 as the base engine but knowing the LaCrosse can only have 240 HP NA at most really bugs me and is why I'd appreciate the LaCrosse Super to be made. The Lucerne has at least a more respectable upper-end Horsepower, though I wish it had more power too. My next vehicle buy will be a Buick, it's still a tossup though if it's going to be a LaCrosse Super or a Lucerne CXS.

Caddy, that is an awesome advertisement. I'm glad Buick is starting to be more aggressive even in their advertising. They are finally getting a personality for the general public again.

So long as GM doesn't make any rash decisions with Buick we should start seeing a definitive increase in sales by next year this time. Profitable sales too- not fleet sales.

The displacement on demand and a 5 or 6 speed transmission would've made this car just over the top. I think it is more than a quality vehicle now, I just can't help but think "What if..."

I'm 22 and love the Lucerne. It seems that MOST Buick fans on this site are under 50

I do not understand what is wrong with the best engine ever made! And I literally believe that. The 3.8 liter V6 just is the most venerable, terrific engine ever created. It just doesn't break. So far we've owned 3 vehicles with it that it went over 200,000 miles (one almost 300k, that one was finally junked, the other 2 are still going), I have one in my current 2000 Regal, my dad has a 2000 LeSabre and my mom has one in her 2005 LaCrosse, I had a 3.1 in one car and the engine blew twice, we have never had one bit of engine work done on all 50 (exaggeration) of our 3.8s, the joke is on the people who don't see that quality. For what it is used for it is an uppity engine, even on the LeSabre... it has more reliability than any other engine currently made. Though it may be outdated it is not a poor choice by any means. It is not poor on gas mileage, emissions, or power for what it does. It's just become a habit to pick on the 3.8 because of its age. It's lasted this long for a reason. It's not a shameful thing.

I just thought about it... and this move is brilliant for Buick. Obviously most of us don't understand it because we are guys who like cars and Martha Stewart would be the farthest from our memories to entice us for buying any vehicle. We all automatically know the day Martha Stewart can tell us what a good car is, is the day we lose all interest in cars. But the fact is Martha Stewart didn't become famous for nothing (even though I know it seems it). These middle age housewife women just eat her up like they eat Oprah up. And when Martha Stewart just goes on and on about what a beautiful car the Lucerne is these housewives will be first to jump on the Buick bandwagon. Plus these middle age housewives who love her are usually loaded, otherwise they wouldn't have time for Martha Stewarts bullshit. Her husband will come in the room and she'll be like "Darling, we need a new car. The one we have now is already two years old. The Buick Lucerne seems to be in style now, we should get that!" Ah yes. The perfect plan. You watch- sales through the roof. No, in all seriousness though this shouldn't be the failure giving away G6's to every audience member in Oprah was because that was more like just a nice gift bestowed upon the audience. But obviously if you're going to provide EVERY audience member with a vehicle you know it has to be a cheap vehicle. This is a very classy way to watch a television show basically on the Lucerne and its elegance.

Whoever decided that the Impala is a "full sized car" is an idiot. I know cars are getting smaller but come on- the Impala sucks in size. The Impala was a good 5 grand cheaper than the LeSabre- of course it's going to sell more, but come on- it's obviously a midsize car.