Cananopie

In contrast to these reviews I checked out Motor Trends car of the year award and it went to the Civic, which is fine, I didn't expect Buick to really win... but what gets me is that they rate the Lucerne lesser than or equal to all of the Avalon ratings in every department giving the Lucerne almost no credit at all. In fact the Avalon says for its title "The Buick GM never built" as if it was leaps and bounds better than the Lucerne. If they're supposed to be a respectable magazine they'd know Buick far outsells the Avalon with its full size car and in fact the Avalon does not set the standard. I'm not saying the Avalon is crappy either, but I don't think the Avalon just outshines the Lucerne completely as they suggest. People have been preferring the LeSabre far more than the Avalon in recent years so how can they even justify it?

If Buick doesn't survive past the next LaCrosse I am going to be positive that this was the plan all along- to kill Buick. Only because there is NOTHING Buick has done to deserve anything less. Everything has exceeded or met expectations to date.

Yea, what are you looking for? A semi-truck? Are you that desperate for space? The Enclave isn't supposed to be used for hauling, it's a stylish vehicle, it's GMC or Chevy that shouldn't compromise when making a vehicle that is strictly for utility.

No offense to this Buick-hating thread but here are undeniable facts. The LaCrosse isn't being sold to fleet nearly as much as the Century and Regal and the sales have surpassed the Century and Regal. The Lucerne has been raved about by every reviewer and owner I have found on the internet. If the LaCrosse didn't make them look at Buick twice the Lucerne definitely did. No offense but if you haven't seen a vehicle in person or sat in it, it's hard to know whether it looks 'dated' or not. That term gets thrown around so loosely like everyone can agree on what your idea of 'dated' is. I'm sure looking at stock pictures of the Lucerne constantly I'd begin to call it dated too, but I've checked it out in person and it is definitely on top of things. I'd like you to find something factual that shows it's dated. The only complaints about the Lucerne have been the fact it's still a 4-speed and the gas mileage isn't quite up there with Toyotas, but that doesn't mean the Lucerne doesn't have Toyota beat in almost everything else. And any complaint you find with the Lucerne you will be sure not to find with the Enclave (aside from the gas mileage maybe, we don't know yet but GM as a whole seems to be lagging there). The Enclave isn't just any boring vehicle, it is setting the industry standard! The reason why the decline in sales is mostly because of backing off of Fleet sales. Both GM and Buick have known this would happen but the Rendezvous has oversold what they've expected (Don't tell me the spawn of the Aztek was EVER supposed to sell NEARLY as many vehicles as they have), the LaCrosse is selling exactly where it is expected and the Lucerne is too early to tell but there has been virtual silence on its negative aspects, the average age of a Buick buyer has plummeted, and the Enclave was one of the biggest raves at the biggest auto show all year.... What exactly is making you concerned for Buick? Because aside from your hunches and worries about sales of 3 vehicles not outputting as many as 5 vehicles with fleet sales is a bit absurd. If Buick is going to die it is strictly because GM has been planning it for years, because everything they've done so far is working as planned or better. Check out the "Buick's Bright Future" thread for even more facts that Buick is not hurting at all.

Dean, I know you're a member of Car domain too, my brother found your car on that before you were even a member here. I am the Cheers and Gears guy, he is the Car Domain guy. In other words, I like the stock stuff and he likes the modified stuff (even though I love your Regal)... but my point in saying this stuff... Don't you think you'd have a better chance asking the modifiers of those vehicles on car domain? It's just I think most everybody on here doesn't focus on modified stuff as most other forums... thats just my suggestion though.

Are you saying make as much interior room as possible? Because that is definitely not what draws the crowds. It is a compromise between style and functionality. All vehicles are.

According to Lutz 99% production. I commented about how all that needs to be said for the Enclave was that it had more comments than every other vehicle at the NAIAS on our forums, even the Camaro. And that's saying more than anything else to me.

Thats a good point. Pontiac/Saturn dealers and Buick/Cadillac dealers would've made a lot more sense.

Paulie I think is right. That Nissan looks more like what Buick was moving away from than the Lucerne. As for the Q45 Ven I just think it is way too boring to be a Buick flagship. Aside from slight differences with the lights and grille already to the Q45 you have a Lincoln Town Car I believe Buick has far more character than that in their vehicles. Even the LeSabre stood out from that vanilla look more than that. The Park Avenue carried many similarities of these vehicles and wasn't truly praised until the facelift in its later years.

It really seems like the Velite still has a chance albeit about a half a decade old when it comes out. My guess is Buick is definitely getting a vehicle out of this because it has been a long term goal to turn Buick to RWD for a while now. But also on the same platform they're talking about a RWD sedan, which would be good... but come on guys! A coupe! Give me a Buick coupe again!

I say this is very very very unlikely information. - GM nor any car company debut a vehicle in the summer. They begin to SELL it in late summer typically but if a brand new model is going to be debuted, we know it would be at the NAIAS, LAIAS, or Chicago or something like that. -We have a lot of GM insiders that give us little hints. And they almost always pass word along when even the idea of a vehicle is going to built, they don't give a lot of information but they might say something like "Be on the lookout for the new flagship vehicle" or something like that. None of the insiders have given any hint. -All hints and facts point to the LaCrosse, Lucerne, and Enclave being the only Buicks within a couple years and no new product I hope and wish there to be new product, but a new vehicle will not be out by or debut this summer that nobody at C&G has any idea about. -Look at the Statesman and KNOW that is not the image Buick is trying to portray for themselves right now. It's a nice vehicle but it'd stand out like a sore thumb with the current American Buick lineup. It looks equivilant to a last-gen Cadillac. It'd be TORN APART after what Buick just showed they can prove with the Enclave. -The only thing new thats coming that isn't confirmed about Buick is the LaCrosse Super which is just a refreshment for the LaCrosse. Until anybody can come up with reasonable explanations to all these arguments I don't think this dealer really has any inside information. A lot of the dealers I talk to I realize I end up knowing more about the product than they do (but I know there are plenty of dealers who do know what they're talking about, some of which are on here) but if anyone can explain how a FLAGSHIP vehicle would debut this summer, without a hint from AH-HA or anyone else, and knowing that the Statesman is not at all like a current American Buick... then I'll be willing to give this hint from a dealer a bit more credibility.

You know the Enclave's good when it has more comments than the Camaro Concept. That speaks more than anything I have to say about it since this is my first comment on the vehicle.

Saturn can take the minivan. It's moving upmarket between Pontiac and Buick anyway.

In all honesty it's a nice vehicle. Lexus was never a style-breaker, but that isn't what makes them popular. Seriously Cadillac needs to compete with this for GM because if it comes down to it and you can have an 8 speed tranny, 19 speakers, 380 HP, etc etc and what Cadillac is offering now the AVERAGE person would go for this Lexus, especially because it's probably more fuel efficient to boot. The styling isn't bad either. It's a nice sleek conservative design.

Turbo, you have to understand though that China alone holds 1/6th of the worlds population and it's only going to grow. For that reason alone Buick could become more popular than any European brand for world popularity. The potential for Buick is therefore unlimited. However potential for Pontiac, Saturn, or Saab are limited, but for some reason GM is giving Saturn a lot of potential. Everyone knows Saturn is GM today as Razor said, but also Saturn isn't the cheap company of the past either. Saturn is getting more potential than Buick or Pontiac in the American market, getting the first real hybrid, getting the Sky, and still having a sports line. Saab is sold internationally as well but they hardly sell anything in America. I don't think Buick has missed the mark though turbo. I think they weren't aiming as young as you wished them to. It has more than successfully appealed to people in their 30's and 40's as opposed to those in their 60's and 70's as Buick used to. The Lucerne has appealed to a lot of people even in their 20's and that is definitely not who Buick is aiming at.

Here's something I'd like peoples opinions on. We are always concerned GM is going to drop another brand and we always assumed it'd be Buick before Pontiac because Pontiac sells more. But while looking for the above information I came across many articles like this one about the sales of GM in China, specifically Buick's. Wouldn't Buick's popularity in China make Buick a more popular world brand than Saab or Ponitac since Pontiac is only sold the Americas, right? If they had to kill a division, Ponitac would actually be the weakest, or is there something else I'm forgetting? Let me know what you think.

Thanks Ven!

I didn't see this anywhere else and I don't really care enough to post it in the GM section because Buick is really the only GM company that I care about, though it's interesting to see the other figures. http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/01/05/205609.html Key facts: -Buick Sales are down only 8.8% from last year -Only 92,000 LaCrosses were sold this year (8 grand short of the the 100k total we were hoping for) -The LaCrosse sold approximately 8,000 more vehicles than the Century and Regal combined in 2004. -The Lucerne has sold just shy of 9,000 vehicles for the year. -The Rendezvous is STILL growing in sales despite it being 4 years old (only by a few hundred vehicles though). -I'm disappointed to be unable to compare Relay and Uplander SV6 sales to the Terraza.

As much as I love Buicks (and I do love them) I find it hard to ever create any poetry about it... and as of this fall I'll have a BS in English Education so it's not that I'm unsympathetic to the literary arts. However a while back I noticed an interesting poem by Percy Shelley, famous British poet, husband of Mary Shelley who was the writer of Frankenstein (he was actually more famous than her back then, now it's visa versa). Ode To a Skylark I liked it because at the time I had my 97 Skylark Limited which is below: Before anyone jumps out of the woodworks exclaiming how poor these cars were I understand. But the fact mine was a 2 door with a V6 without hubcaps gave it a lot more credit above the rest of the Skylarks... plus it was the end of an era. There were no more production Skylarks after 97 (aside from the few bottom of the barrel ones sold to fleet) so the car was pretty special to me even though it doesn't live up to the expectation of the original Skylark or the Skylark of the 60s, but a MAJOR improvement of the Skylark of the 80s and early 90s.

Minarets My opinion is the Buick Lucerne and here is my reasoning. What you're missing in power with the Lucerne is a mere 35 HP and roughly 30 ft-lbs of torque. I wouldn't consider the Impala THAT much more powerful. Before the new Impala and the Lucerne and the LaCrosse I considered that if I wasn't going to buy a Regal (which was my first choice at the time) I'd want the Impala. However now I have lost some respect for the Impala because it had a very lukewarm update and the vehicle will look dated very quickly. I can't say the same for the Lucerne. The only reason I'd say don't go for the Lucerne is if you just can't afford it. But a black on black Lucerne CXS will always draw some awe to your vehicle as where the Impala is hard to draw even a glance. Also you'd be doing Buick a favor because these are uncertain times for Buick. Chevy doesn't need your money. Buick doesn't have just better percieved quality, it really is there and you should know that since you sat in a Lucerne. The Impala will show its cheapness very quickly on you and I can't say the same for the Lucerne. Go for the Lucerne. The Impala just doesn't have any style anymore. The front end is indistinguishable from the Monte Carlo, look for yourself. Plus with your family you'll be happy you have the room in the Lucerne when you need it, and it's not that the Lucerne can't perform almost nearly as well. Plus the goodies will keep you interested in the car a lot longer. The Impala is a no-go. Definitely go for the Lucerne. Obviously I'm a Buick-man, but I think I gave some fair reasons.

If you drop Buick you drop the highest quality brand GM has... and at a time where they are on the verge of bankruptcy you don't want to ditch your highest quality brand. Buick keeps GM quality respectable.

I am a huge fan of the S/C 3.8, I am definitely not arguing much against it. You have some interesting points Razor but I don't know that much about the workings of engines in the first place so I can't debate you. But if I could afford it I'd own a late 90's Riviera or a newer Regal GS in a heartbeat, I was never bashing on it. The 3.8, it is safe to say supercharged or not, is still an awesome engine.

I understand many of you have personal experiences as I do with about 5 NA 3.8 liter engines, ranging from 60k to 296k none of them had engine troubles. And I know Buick builds great forced induction vehicles, I never denied that. I was simply saying it's pretty obvious the supercharged 3.8 wouldn't last as long as a NA 3.8 just because the supercharger is 1 more thing to break first of all and second of all it's pushing engine limits... Who knows though, they may have the exact same lifespan and the supercharger never goes wrong anytime ever.... I'm just gonna say it's hard to believe. (reminder since this seems to be missed: I don't think they're bad engines, I just would assume that a supercharger would have a better chance of shortening the engine life as opposed to prolonging it... I can understand that doesn't mean every supercharged engine can't make 100 grand on their life without breaking... it's the 3.8, I don't expect anything to go wrong before 250k... 100k is nothing though, the supercharger could break in the next 100k too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it didnt)

I think a lot of people are getting worked up over a Buick drawing. I mean if they were to draw just the Centieme to look like a fast vehicle it probably wouldn't look much different than that. It's extremely disproportionate with like 42 inch rims and approximately 3 feet of sitting space inside. I promise you that even if this was a representation of the Enclave it isn't even remotely close to what the real thing will look like.

Hey, I may be wrong about the supercharger, I will admit I have no proof to back it up. It's just something made to push an engine to extremes it wouldn't go to regularly sounds like it just would create a shorter life... not that the 3.8 isn't indestructable in the first place.