Windy-57

Glad to see this. I know this was planned long before recent troubles, but I see this as a sign of GM's commitment to Pontiac.

Hell yeah, that car with some more differentiation from the Saturn version and the powertrain lineup that the Solstice has would be pretty sweet and would make a huge dent in urban buyers who have left the Big 3 in droves over the last few years.

Not sure what the build location has to do with the name, but I don't see them changing it to Invicta. They use show names all the time and then change them for production. They'll likely keep LaCrosse because it already has equity; same reason they kept the Malibu name.

As a brand image, Pontiac has more relevance than GMC (particularly considering gas prices.) GMC can go and nobody will miss it - especially if you spread their budget to Chevy trucks, Pontiac and Buick. What does GMC offer that Chevy doesn't...the Acadia, that's it - and in about 3 months Chevy will have the Traverse. Pontiac still has a lot of potential to be distinct in the market with the Solstice, G8 and I really liked that chop of the Astra (I've been calling for a GTi-inspired Pontiac for a while now.)

Because they want to make a statement with the combination of both it's Ferrari-like performance and with how much less it costs. $10K is about 10% of total vehicle cost, so that's substantial. But don't worry, I don't expect they'll sell a lot that don't have leather.

I read an article about this that said most of the Teamsters were able to find work at other union shops. All I have to say is WHAT ABOUT THE NON-UNION WORKERS??

Yeah, I was referring to how good the upgrades in exterior styling were. I think the Malibu is fantastic (even starting to like the tail) but the Cobalt is just an OK upgrade from what they have now. Speaking of the Malibu, doesn't the current version have a short life span of only 3 years until the redesign is on the Global Epsilon?

Good question. These are good updates, but not on the level of what they did to the Malibu. Still, it's very hard to tell how a car will do from exterior styling alone. If the interior has a Malibu-esque interior upgrade, it will do very well with this styling. Plus, this version will most likely be much more profitable for GM since it's on the global architecture.

Well, that's obviously the SS version of the Camaro...or whatever it will be called.

I know this is very Corvette-esque, but does anyone think this could be a new version of the Cadillac Cien? Isn't the XLR in danger of being phased out? Weren't they supposed to be considering a Vette supercar?

That's basically it, but my point was that, until now, the CTS has been somewhere between the 3-Series and 5-Series and every inch it moves upmarket, including the addition of a monster performer like this, the more room there is for a true 3-Series competitor below it. Also, I think GM is prioritizing the importance of their fuel suckers in order to meet the upcoming CAFE standards and I think it's evident that the list goes something like: 1. Pickups 2. Corvette line 3. V-Series 4. Large SUVs 5. Pontiac 6. Hummer

I asked myself the same question and actually came up with an answer: It matters because a CTS-V with this much power and performance helps put the overall lineup in the same league as the BMW 5-Series. That means a combined STS/DTS replacement will be enough above the CTS in the current market landscape. It also means they can offer a sedan below the CTS that can have some true luxury and performance aspects and that's key because it won't jeopardize the status of the brand. It sounds odd, but a 565 hp sedan from Cadillac helps adjust their lineup to be more relevant in a world of increasing gas prices.

I disagree that Hummer is worthless. For as hated as it is by some people, it's loved by others for the very same reason and the reason is that the Hummer name actually stands for something, how many other GM divisions have that clear of a brand identity? If the recent changes in the automotive landscape have taught us anything, it's that you can't ignore one segment of product to chase the current trend. What will happen in the mid and full size SUV segments when battery technology takes off and cars are using almost no gas? I'd bet my left nut that when that time comes, Hummer will be a hot commodity again because it actually says off-road like not other brand can. To me, the real issue (as was mentioned) is whether GM can afford to update the brand in a meaningful way now. If they need those funds elsewhere, then I can see selling it.

Agreed, great proportions. Taillights are tough to tell, not as bad as the Malibu though. Absolutely have to see the interior, if it's in the range of the bu, this will do well. One other thing I don't like is the grille and how it juts up into the hood. Good point was made earlier about this being a global. It might take GM a while to get all the styling points down on a chassis that is truly global, but the cost savings will be worth it. Hopefully this comes out well though.

I have to say that GM's reaction (or rather overreaction) to CAFE is going to kill them. This is the type of crap that kills brands. The G3 isn't what Pontiac should be, but guess what, if they bring it to market, then a number of people will believe that's what Pontiac is and that will conflict with the 20 other images Pontiac has had recently including (Aztek, Montana, Vibe, Solstice, etc.) Someone please tell me the defining characteristics that makes a cohesive brand out of these. And the saddest part is that they're doing this because of CAFE. News to GM, Pontiac can still be performance oriented and you can still meet the future CAFE standards and keep your precious trucks. Here's how: 1. Solstice stays, it's pretty good with gas as is. 2. Make the Vibe more badass by giving it the turbo 4 in the Solstice; 260 horses would do that car nicely (think GTi) 3. By making the Vibe that way, it leaves you room to give a version to Chevy 4. G6 replaced by Alpha. Again you could use the same turbo 4 and do well with mileage and then add a 6-cylinder turbo version as the GXP. 5. Zeta G8 you still have enough CAFE room to do a few less fuel efficient vehicles in the GM family and Pontiac damn well better get at least one. 6. A version of the Volt to slot below the Alpha - I know what you're thinking, but electric cars do have a performance side to them (constant torque bands.) Be the first automaker to go beyond the idea of electric=green and make a statement that electric is the future of all cars and that includes performance cars. Focus on aerodynamics and gear the car toward performance. Think Tesla. Now, you can't tell me that this lineup wouldn't provide Pontiac with a more fuel efficient lineup by a significant margin and fit the performance standard people want from Pontiac while also fitting into GM's platform sharing strategy while also adding some relevance to a performance brand in today's market. By the way, that took me all of 15 minutes to think of. The G3...you've got to be $h!ting me.

Well, even in an over-simplified sense, you're not really correct. The overriding Republican credo is to have a small government and let the market (and companies within that market) play it out. And since lesser govt. restriction is often business-friendly, that's why people think Republican's are for the corporations. But, smaller govt. also means fewer social programs, so that's why public healthcare is more of a Democratic issue than a Republican one. These differences are also why Democrats call Republicans uncaring and unwilling to help while Republicans call Democrats socialists. And actually, it's not the lack of a social healthcare program that is hurting American businesses, it's rising healthcare costs combined with rediculous union health benefits (a form of social healthcare.) Combine that with unbalanced trade policies, damaged brand reputations, crushing legacy costs and an American public that is more than willing to buy foreign products while at the same time cursing American businesses that off-shore jobs and a slumping overall economy to boot and you've got a tough spot to operate from.

I disagree. GM doesn't have anything else that says offroad like Hummer. And that's not a brand identity that is meaningless either. There is a reason so many other auto companies want to get their hands on Jeep. The Escalade is all about the bling factor. The Tahoe is a family hauler. Neither of those are anywhere close to what a Hummer is. For the future, I would expect GM to get rid of the two sizes of 900 SUVs. Either meld the Tahoe and Suburban into one vehicle somewhere in between their current sizes or for Chevy to get the SWB and GMC get the LWB. (I personally favor the first idea.) I'd expect Caddy to only get one in the future. That leaves the Avalanche and EXT....don't know what will happen to those, but my guess is that it would be to GM's benefit if they could find a way to make the collapsible midgate an option on the Silverado and get rid of the Avalanche...maybe just have an Avalanche trim of the Silverado. But don't get rid of Hummer, there's too much you can do with it and I think the upcoming H4 will prove that. It will provide revenue to GM that doesn't come from anywhere else. Also, I've believed for a while now that Chevy doesn't need a frame-based midsize SUV and that they can completely transition to crossovers. That's not an easy decision if you're just planning to get out of that market all together, but if you have Hummer with frame-based models to pick up the sales to people who use their midsize utes for towing and such, then it becomes much easier.

Hmmm...not sure what I think of this. My initial reaction is that given what's been going on lately for Toyota, they could take some time to solidify their base in automotive before moving on. I think they're going to find that getting to the top was easier than it's going to be to stay there. To me they seem very vulnerable in a lot of areas. On the other hand, this could be very smart. A great way to diversify. You could make the argument that the automotive industry in the world is becoming mature and diversifying into other travel sectors is a way to protect yourself. If you think about it, the airline industry has been struggling for a long time and people are just now starting to fly again and you could make the argument that they're due to make up on some of the growth they've missed out on in the post-911 era. On a side note, I've thought that GM could find areas to diversify into. Wouldn't it be great to have a Hummer 4-wheeler?

1. I'm not about to start arguing whether or not global warming is actually happening, but I just don't think that it's a prudent move to make such a bold statement if you're a leader in an industry taking it on the chin as responsible for global warming (and I know that autos are only a portion of the problem, so no need to point that out). Further, GM's been getting it worse than anyone, so it really throws a gauntlet where you don't want one thrown. 2. True, hybrids don't currently make economic sense. At best, they have value as a marketing tool. And fact does remain that until they are economically viable, large groups of people aren't going to buy them. But I think people really like the idea of hybrids and want a company to step up and find a way to make them economically viable. It's in this area that I think GM deserves a lot of credit for the 2-mode and Volt because both of those systems are built around deliveing fuel saving returns under more typical driving conditions. So to the point here, I think it's damaging to GM for Bob to say stuff like this because it fights the flow of public opinion, whereas he could say things like, "It's $h!ty that some automotive companies have you believing that you need to take money out of your pocket and take food off your table in order to save the environment. At GM, we believe the higher good is to develop cars that will save the environment AND put money back into your pocket. That's why we're develeping vehicles like the Volt...."

Yeah, from this list, I'd omit the following: Wrangler - You've all said it. If any other company could do this car this well, they would. Patriot - Really? From a brand standpoint, it makes more sense than the Compass...not that I actually like the Patriot, just better than the Compass. H3 - The H3 has done pretty well for GM hasn't it? Everybody needs to stop hatin' on Hummer and realize that no matter what, some people will want a big, tough truck. Borderline list: Liberty & Yaris...the rest can stay.

Agreed, this is a nice surprise. I can't wait to see the final verison.

What really sucks about this is that an American brand takes the fall for this. Hybrids have been way underperforming their fuel economy since they came out, but nobody thought to point that out until now? Bull! On top of that, given the way most hybrids work, these tests are largely objective. Sure, you can likely get great mpg out of a Prius currently, but the only way you do that is to crawl off the line, and seriously focus on cruising whenever possible. But then again, you'd get great mileage out of a lot of cars driving like that. But people don't drive like that. That's why GM has the 2-mode because it better fits the way people actually drive.

And that's the sound of Rick revoking Uncle Bob's media pass.

Good point, but I think that's a better RWD platform to focus on.

A couple of thoughts on this: 1. A Buick Lucerne or Park Ave or whatever is a terrible idea. If you need to, make an exact copy of the vehicle, throw a Chevy badge on it, call it whatever you want and only sell it to fleet, but don't screw over Buick like that. 2. To be honest, it's not getting tough to make a case for large V8 cars, it's just getting hard to make a case for large cars in general. While I too was extremely excited about Zeta, the beancounters should have some say here too. GM should really be investing that money into getting Delta here ASAP and as good as possible. Plus, the Thetas need some serious work in order to be competitive, so let's focus on that and then worry about dealing with Zeta later. 3. On the same premise I described above, if we really want RWD, then let's talk about Alpha. GM could do very well to meet both enthusiast desire and fuel economy standards by building a lightweight Alpha G6 with a heavily turbo/super charged 4 or 6 cylinder. Then add a version for Caddilac with a V6 and see where else in the world you could use a car like that. 4. The one thing I will say that troubles me about all of this is GM's volume makeup. I don't think it's an issue of being able to offer these vehicles with decent fuel economy, but is more of an issue of offsetting the trucks and large SUVs that bring in all that money. Don't forget, the standards are supposed to be volume adjusted which is going to make it tougher for GM since they build so many trucks. Essentially they get penalized for building better trucks than Toyota...go figure.