Windy-57

It was actually last year that they lost $10.6B. But that's really not a fair comparison becuase that included the buyouts (special downer) and this year includes the GMAC sale (special upper). Still, what they don't seem to realize is that it's amazing to have that kind of performance given that 2006 was rife with new product investment and that, for the most part, the new product hasn't arrived yet. The new pickups didn't start selling until late in the year, same for the Lambdas, and the new Malibu is going to add some serious coin in 2007. Let them be disappointed. I'll wait for the stock price to drop to $28 and buy as much as I can. Then watch that price double in 2007 and 2008.

This is a horrible idea. Yeah the Phaeton is a great vehicle, you know why, because it's an Audi. GM has it right, your luxury brand should have stand alone vehicles. By giving VW this vehicle you undercut the A8. VW should have stuck with Wolfgang's idea of moving the VW brand downmarket and providing more room between VW and Audi and therefore covering a larger portion of the market. If you want a halo car, then develop a new one. If that's too expensive, then it's a vehicle that doesn't have a business case. Simple as that. Audi has a lot going for it right now and you shouldn't screw with that by fooling around with the brand's flagship model.

Good points. I will agree that Toyota can never be American, but they can be perceived as less foreign than other manufacturers such as Hyundai, Honda and the upcoming entrants from China. And, they can do so to a point that transcends them to not being completely foreign, but rather a hybrid ex. Asian-American. To answer your points: 1. This is part of why I said that Toyota could never truly be American. Still, Toyota has more plants in the US than any other non-Big 3 member. And, on a larger scale (outside of the auto industry) they contribute big numbers of employment and investment to the US. And I'll agree, component contents count, but with more global sharing coming from GM and more domesticated production from Toyota, I would look for that gap to narrow in the future. 2. Precisely my point. In terms of the car market, Toyota has built brand equity that resonates with American buyers by providing them cars that have the attributes they desire most (one of which is quality). They understand the American consumer better and have offered products that more closely resemble what the American consumer wants. Or to put it another way, Toyota has been selling cars that are "more American" over the past X number of years than any member of the Big 3 and the sales volumes are a reflection of that. 3. No, it doesn't change where they originated, but the whole point of building brand images in different regions is to assimilate yourself into that region. If you're saying that you can never change the perception of your brand because of where it originated, I would disagree and think there are a number of historical examples that would support my view. And, I'll agree that each of the Big 3 invest a whole lot more into the US by way of retooling and such than Toyota does in all its activities, but do you think that message is getting out and resonating with the American people? I've heard quite a different story being told about the auto industry over the last few years. It's important to understand that I'm not a rice blower (or I know some of you like the term import humper). I love GM and the new products they're building. I love the business with which they've founded their turnaround. And it's because I love them that I point this stuff out. Becuase they have to realize that a danger of becoming a more globally based company while a strong rival is pushing in on your home territory is that you'll lose some of the identity that you're founded in while the competitor assimilates some of that identity into their brand image. The good news is that GM seems to understand this and has adjusted their product plans and marketing strategies accrodingly. The bad news is that Ford doesn't seem to get it and Chrysler only half gets it. That is why I don't have a lot of faith in them right now.

Actually, Toyota is a global company. So is GM, so if Ford, so is DCX, so is Honda, etc., etc. and they all compete on a global scale. And, I hate to be the unpopular one, but here in the U.S. Toyota is becoming more domesticated. Think about it, what designates a company's heritage? HQ Location - Yes, Toyota's HQ is in Japan and the profits go back there, but much of those profits come right back in terms of investment, not to mention that plenty of tax dollars stay here as well. And I don't think the workers at San Antonio, Evansville or Georgetown give a damn where the HQ is so long as they can put food on the table for their families. Manufacturing Base - Yes, GM, Ford and DCX each have more facilities in the US than Toyota, but this will begin to level out going forward with Toyota building more here and each of the Big 3 closing facilities. Product Offerings - Sure GM, Ford and DCX still have the advantage in heartland vehicles such as trucks and SUVs, but I think it's hard to argue that Toyota doesn't offer American vehicles when they sell more Camrys and Corollas here than any other given domestic car. Not to mention, Lexus is the top-selling luxury brand in the States. Listen, I'm not trying to rain on the parade; my point is, these are global companies that need to operate on a global level. GM can't survive on the NA market alone, they need to continue to (and have been) making gains in non-domestic markets. They are making efforts in Asia to be seen as a more Asian company and in Europe as a more European company. The examples abound (GMDAT was created in order for GM to be seen as more Asian and what do you think is the point of offering a BLS wagon or CTS diesel in Europe?). So, naturally through these efforts (and others), GM is being seen as more European in Europe and Asian in Asia. But then you can't deny that Toyota is being seen as more American in the U.S. It's dangerous to scoff at this and deny it. GM and the other American automakers have to see this as a real issue and deal with it. In fact, GM is already dealing with it. Think about their new ad campaigns that emphasize their heritage (Showing the progression of old Cadillac's into the new ones, "This is our country, this is our truck", and the Super Bowl ad that incorporated a bunch of songs using GM's namebrands from different genres and different generations). This is the type of American that Toyota can never be and they know it. Why do you think they fear an American backlash if they take the top global spot from GM? But they certainly can be Asian-American.

In the scheme of the turnaround, Pontiac has been lower on the priority list than other GM brands such as Cadillac, Chevy, Saturn, and even Buick. As such, the new products they have gotten lately have been more of an afterthought (G5-rebadge, G8-rebadge). So, essentially, outside of some definite stuff, nobody knows what will happen in the next 5 years for Pontiac. What I mean is, even if they do "know" something, it will likely change as the turnaround progresses and Pontiac gets more attention and more "original" program vehicles. As for turning Pontiac into a lower volume, higher profit line of cars, they'll do that if they're smart. An interesting question I had posed to me once was, should Pontiac be an everyman's BMW or an everyman's Porsche?

I actually agree with you on this. Some things aren't the best looking, but I think this would be a solid evolutionary step in what a large American sedan could be. The issue I have with the Imperial concept is that it would steal too much of the 300's thunder.

I couldn't agree more. They absolutely need to be seen as a technological leader. As for 2010, I don't know? This seems to be one of their aces in the hole; like they've been developing it for production for a while and they'll have all their ducks in a row by then, it'll just depend on whether battery technology progresses enough. Question, I know there were rumors about the next Prius being a plug-in, given this timing, will the Volt make it out before or after that vehicle?

I fail to see how that's sad.

At Geneva, Lutz says Volt production targeted for 2010. http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews...637300520070306

I'd bet on a March Madness sales event. Even though GM is scaling back on their incentives, they have said that they will keep their regular sales events which includes March Madness. Also, consider what kind of financing you can secure. GM has been on a big kick of offering low financing in place of cash incentives and often times these subvented interest rates save you more on your monthly payment than cash off the hood. The HHR is a good call.

The most crucial part of this is that they made the gains on the retail side, without an increase in incentives; both incentives and fleet deliveries fell and total sales were up...that is huge. It's been a while since a member of the Big 3 made yr/yr sales gains without a heavy influence from incentives or fleet sales. Also, I would bet on (or rather invest on) the fact that this will be a continuing trend. GM knows as well as anybody that the trucks and SUVs aren't going to gain market share, but rather provide the short-term revenue to fuel the remainder of the turnaround. Their most important gains are yet to come; the Acadia, Outlook and Enclave are just beginning to sell and are nowhere near their peak, the new Malibu is going to see share gains, Saturn is still changing peoples' perceptions and will continue to gain share, and by the time this stuff starts to lose steam, we're into Zeta time.

Okay, not to rain on the parade, but I think we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves. I'm impressed with this engine as much as anybody and I think it signifies good things for Cadillac's efforts in Europe. However, most Americans still associate diesel with dirty. There is still a lot of attitude changing to do before this thing will be mainstream in the States. So with that in mind, my question is, should GM use this in vehicles Americans will readily accept in diesel form (H3, Colorado, etc.) or try to change attitudes by putting it in other vehciles that Americans do not readily accept in diesel form (Malibu, LaCrosse, etc.) Also, random thought, how efficient would one of these be if mated to the upcoming dual-stage??

So that you do more than the status quo and make your product desirable. Given, you don't want all Impalas to be AWD, but remember, Buick is moving upmarket and Cadillac is...well...Cadillac. FWD won't cut it at the high end of the market very much longer; AWD may soon become a cost of entry for large luxury vehicles. Also, as I eluded to, there is less engineering involved with the application of AWD to a RWD architecture and thus less expensive. Which, if they do this for the Lucerne and DTS, with parts sharing and shared development costs, makes an AWD Impala that much less expensive. This is some of my favorite stuff in GM's turnaround plan, they're not only doing a much better job with product, but doing it in a very cost-effective manner.

Hey all, I've watched this forum for a while and there is a lot of good info floating around on it. I haven't posted before, but want to get more active and contribute a bit myself. First, there seems to be an ongoing debate as to whether the Lucerne and DTS should stay FWD or move to Zeta. One thing that Zeta will allow GM to do is easily apply an AWD system. So when considering FWD or Zeta, in as far as DTS and Lucerne are concerned, you should probably be debating FWD vs. AWD because if these models go to Zeta, they will likely have a high content of, if not completely consist of, AWD models. Second, I don't really see the point for a DTS anymore. I know that it captures a niche part of the market and sells a lot of units, but a lot of those sales are fleet units. That segment should belong to Buick, the problem is transferring those buyers to Buick and not completely losing them to the Town Car. I don't know, I just think the car hurts the Cadillac image and erodes the exclusivity. And third, I'd really like to see a ULS as well. Caddy needs an S-Class/LS competitor with a larger than V8 engine, 2-wheelbases and a pricetag starting at $85,000 and ranging upwards of $130,000; I don't think Cadillac will be whole until that vehicle arrives. But, I wouldn't hold my breath because the investment for such a vehicle steep. To do it right, you would need another new platform (or something so heavily modified that it's essentially new anyway), a new engine that is not currently in the GM family and a new transmission (think 8-speed) that is not currently in the GM family. And then, you would need to either find a facility flexible enough to handle it or operate and expensive prototype shop. GM could certainly pull this off, but as was mentioned earlier, there are more important things at hand. Sorry for the length, I'll try to keep it shorter in the future.