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By any chance are you an Ohio State fan? This has got to hurt badly. It will be interesting to see how Michigan responds. Whether a fight back or all the fight is gone.

I'm not going to get you worked into a tizzy again. One thread was enough for today. There's always tomorrow. My language might be a bit colorful, but the comparison is apt and true. If I were *biased*, I would have trashed the powertrain too with the exploding camshafts and all. Or the timing belt on the 4.7. Or the fact that the 4.0 gets crappy mileage. But I did not go there. Simply because piling on a truck with "basically inept design and engineering for the segment" would be just that, piling on. Sound familiar?

Large cash on the hood and powertrain are the only two things the Tundra has going for it. Everything else is a big downer. Frame - Can anyone say "Gumby"? Suspension - Nothing like stamped metal to make a statement. Panel Gaps - Maybe the flexframe and a poor suspension has something to do with this problem? Interior - Acclaimed for wide swaths of cheap silver plastic and a total lack of ergonomics. Styling - Subjective, but beached whales definitely come to mind whenever a Tundra rolls by. Bed - Exposed bolts, again bottom of the heap or just a heap, depending on how you want to phrase it. Paint - Judging by my neighbor's red Tundra, that faded (yes, faded) orange peel look never had it so good. Tire Monitoring - Hmmm. Let me guess which tire is low now? Safety Rating- Again, second class, go to the back of the line, no soup for you. Finally, trailerboats? Come on. rofl.

The upmodel 4-banger is a nice step up. Hopefully GM will have the appropriate response for that. But unless I'm missing something, the 3.5 horsepower and torque doesn't look significantly different than the 3.6 or the Toyota 3.5. If anything, the Toyo 6 outclasses the Honda.

Thanks. I did. I looked when I first posted, but did not see your thread until I had hit the add button. I tried to delete and reported to mods. Hopefully, this thread will be tossed.

Look, you can't have it both ways. You compare sales, but during the sales months you quoted, GM didn't have any cash on the hood in comparison to Toyota. Go to just about any Toyota dealer now and you can get 0% financing. GM certainly didn't have 0% for 60 at that time either. And for you to play the shell game of it's dealer vs manufacturer incentives is a bit duplicative, to say the least. The Silverado is hands down a better truck. Those areas where it could be improved are quite simple to upgrade. With the Tundra, it would take an entirely new truck from the wheels up.

A well-conceived, useful, fuel-efficient compact pickup truck.

In the eyes of the consumer $8k is $8k no matter where it comes from.

ANN ARBOR, Mich. (AP) -- What was supposed to be a tuneup turned into a stunner: Appalachian State 34, No. 5 Michigan 32. Julian Rauch's 24-yard field goal with 26 seconds left Saturday put the Mountaineers ahead of the Wolverines and Corey Lynch blocked a field goal in the final seconds to seal one of college football's biggest upsets. ADVERTISEMENT "We're still sort of shocked," coach Jerry Moore said after being carried off the field by his players. Article continues at link...... http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap;_ylt=A...029&prov=ap

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: (classic)

Other favorite Honda Myths...... 10. Plastic decals add 10 horsepower, easy. 9. The Honda Ridgeline can too go off-road and not break all its suspension mounting points. 8. The Honda Ridgeline is not a minivan. It's "minivan-inspired". 7. VTak is the only engine technology worth owning. 6. http://videos.streetfire.net/hottestvideos...80c011963f0.htm 5. The Z06 doesn't stand a chance against my NSX. Absolutely none. 4. What 5-speed automatic transmission problems? 3. http://www.carspace.com/videos/play!id=.5b3c926f 2. Every car should have a 3 foot wing AND cheap bumpers. 1. Torque doesn't mean a damn thing below 7000 rpms.

+1

The recall database is available for download from NHTSA.gov. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/downloads/list.html At one point, the rumor was that the number of Toyota vehicles recalled in the U.S. exceeded the number of vehicles Toyota sold in 2006. If one adds all the numbers of vehicles in the database, that number seems plausible. However, the data actually overlaps and the number of Toyota vehicles actually recalled in 2006 is far few than what was reported by some media outlets. At the time, I was trying to bolster the argument that domestics are in much respects far better than Toyotas. If you visit any other similar car forums, you might even be able to dredge up that thread. However, after doing the research, downloading the text file, popping it into Access and throwing all manner of SQL against it, I had to admit that the U.S. Toyota recalls were far less than the millions advertised elsewhere. Of course, that doesn't make any difference for millions of sludged engines, FJ Cruisers that seem to be breaking in half, Tacoma trucks with disabled air bag sensors, the occasional Prius that stalls on the highway or won't go uphill in the snow. And of course, worldwide Toyota recalls are much higher than just U.S. totals.

Creative uses for all the Unsold Tundras...... 10. Ring the planet in a meteor-proof shield. 9. Stunt doubles for real trucks. This would require an out-of-focus, awfully low-resolution video camera to have a shot at working. 8. Every city, town, village and burg gets a customized "No you can't snowplow with this" diorama. 7. Three words - Monster Truck Fodder 6. Time capsules buried beneath the corner of every new building - An ominous warning about bad taste, which will not be lost on future generations. 5. The cure for herpes, syphilis, gonorrhea, and many other STDS, because driving that truck, you ain't getting any. 4. Beached whale decoys. 3. Grind each Tundra into dust to produce highly effective nerd attractant. A one ounce vial would be enough to clear entire city blocks. 2. Prison justice. No explanation necessary. 1. Ship every last Tundra to China. If lead-based paint is ok, the Tundra will be a smash hit.

Where's the outrage? Where's the furor? Where's the spleen dumping? This is far more egregious than any center-console that has graced a mid-size sedan. Look at those numbers. Just look at those release dates. I say, run and cower in fear of the bright silver mushroom. GM has absolutely no chance to deliver a hybrid full-size vehicle before Toyota. Looks like GM is standing still yet again with the full-size hybrids.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: The center console is the least of Chevy's worries with the Malibu. It may not be the greatest center console of all time, but it doesn't need to be. Get everything else on target and Chevy will sell enough 'Bus to upgrade the infernal often-cursed console. Kaizen. Little steps that bring GM back to the top.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=38...h&plindex=0 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5...h&plindex=1

Agreed. The integrated radio looks much better. When I saw the first Aura photos I almost lost my cookies, but then was surprised how much better it looked person. Still, the stack just doesn't flow as nicely as it could.

Congratulations. In all of my 80 posts, yours is the most nonsensical comment I have had the fortune to witness. You have truly taken witlessness to a new high (low?). And you did all that without even including , , or "NewbieWar". Well, Newbiewar was a given, but you did all that with only one emoticon. Well done.

Please do provide more details as to why you feel the interior in the Camry is substantially better? And to clarify, the interior is the only attribute that you feel the Malibu will not match or exceed the Camry?

Does HCCI require direct injection? If so, does the 15% extra efficiency stack on top of the DI gains? Gasoline feedstocks vary considerably. Just switch gas stations to see that. Ethanol, in comparison, is quite uniform in chemical structure and reactivity. Just switch bottles of Jack Daniels to see that. That high level of uniformity should greatly benefit HCCI. Ethanol also exhibits a pronounced cooling effect when sprayed into the combustion chamber. Which in this application, should also be quite beneficial. Ethanol has a much higher flash point and ignition temperature than gasoline, but are highly consistent from one batch of ethanol to the next. So....should we expect to see ethanol-fueled HCCI motors around the corner?

hmmm..... unique dealership experience comes to mind..... lifestyles of Newbiewar a close second...... wants to ask.... thinks better of it.... nevermind.

Based on what? Total cost of ownership? Nope. Pricing hasn't been released yet. Fuel Economy? Nope. Fuel economy figures haven't been released yet. Suspension? Nope. Just nope. Not even worth arguing. Top-end Horespower? Yes. Usable Torque- No. At least not by the spec sheet. Looks? Nope. Safety? Nope. The Aura is a full 5-stars and the Malibu will be too. Reliability? Maybe? Maybe up to 0.75 problem per vehicle. Maybe. Interior? Maybe? I'll wait and judge that when the Malibu arrives. It's clear that GM photography leaves a lot to be desired. Camry sales may be several steps above the current Malibu, but it's kind of hard to point out how the Camry is even half a step above the new Malibu, especially before the Malibu even finds its way into customers' garages.

That's because you are wrong about the buses. Don't make us hurt you with facts. GM Hybrid Buses use less fuel. GM Hybrid Buses reduce harmful emissions. GM Hybrid Buses are more reliable and require less maintenance. i.e. - The regenerative braking saves on brake pad replacement. And best of all....GM Hybrid Buses provide 50% better acceleration. From just one nearby community.... http://www.metrokc.gov/kcdot/news/2007/nr0...ntractfacts.htm http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4022529 Short-runs with frequent stops are where the hybrid-buses shine. But even with long-highway runs factored in, the hybrid buses achieved 27% better fuel economy - as per the National Renewable Energy Laboratory - see for yourself - http://bioage.typepad.com/.shared/image.ht...zed/nrelkcm.png

If what these journalists are saying is true, alot of people are going to need grief counseling immediately. There is no way a domestic product could ever be better than a cheap-two-link-suspension-parrot-beak-melted-dove-bar designed non-union-injure-the-workers-and-who-cares-about-this-country-ill-buy-what-I-want-import. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin. Say what you want about prior products, journalists have never gushed to this extent for an everyday Chevrolet. Especially anyone from Edmunds. It looks like Chevrolet may very well have a winner.