razoredge

Put em out Send em home Time to rock do it now or do it later - but whats the sense in waiting what are we going to let them raise their prices so they can increase their profit margins ? get em out of here

WHY ? WHY ? WHY ? competition is from engines built by Lexus, BMW, Porsche, Ford

Some old RWD G body custom ? Windshield even looks like it could be FWD H. Could even be a W. Not the best angle. Its a truck show though so its probably a S10.

Boy oh boy, the whole damn thing is just a smoke screen. Hows about the Government getting controll of the health providers, drug companies and insurance companies in the first place ? Problem solved ! Hurricane = break the logjam, yarite it was a logjab alright, right up our ass's. government worried about oil consumption? , well the huge trucking, railroad, barge, ocean vessle industry used to move product from other counrtries into this would be a real good start. Then of course interstate shipping could have been contained if local economies and industries were not destroyed government -oil consumption - how much do we use with military games ? How about a few more quads and snowmobiles per household and great big trucks to tow them around with to trespass on land they are not supposed to be drivin on ? Soon will be time to get out the leaf blowers, how did man ever survive the centuries without them ? Perhaps the government could give our flatland fourwheel drive beautyparlor queens gas endorsements to help them offset the added expense of going to the store after the trip to the salon ? Nice distraction, this way we will avoid seeing the filthy level capitolism has reached in this country. I just know this all somehow has something to do with the blue collars and organized labor in this country - those damn Unions - yarite

I came up with 26,830 on Mazda 6 3.0 220 hp engine with only the moonroof w/great sterio option. Was higher at 27,965 but that was a Grand Touring or something. I see the standard saves 1000 dollars on the Mazdas so a automatic would be an instant extra 1000. I think the new Mazdas are kinda nice but they still have the same stupid Japanese grill they all are running and they are still Japanese junk, this is America, so on and so forth. G6 GTP is a sleek looking Coupe I cant see any comparision in the styling = priceless, American = future This topic has made me like that G6 6speed coupe alot more, thanks, very much.

Does this have something to do with HUD ? I think it does and some car only had that way of seeing gauges but I cant remember............much of anything

So how about that "cloth" ? :blink: I think dash and all has nice contrast as it is, perhaps more "stainless" look would be OK but I like all that. The door panels are extremely plastic but welcome to modern car design. I spent a few days in a mid 90's Taurus recently, the interior looked sharp but was all solid plastic panels, my arms were sore from the arm rests. This plastic thing has to pass, they are putting no work into the door panels what so ever, just a one piece plastic crap. Heres what was going on in the 80's, theres a glimps of part of the typical multi padded and materialed door panels - have we gone forward or backwards ? Top of the line Oldsmobile 98 Touring Sedan 87-90

asthmatic - what did you read that in some magazine ? What did they do unplug the MAF first to give it that asthmatic feel ? You have serious issues, my SC 3800 will reach 6 grand faster than your senses could register smooth or anything but fear, next thing you would be crying for me to slow the F down. But I wouldnt , I'd drive you till you wet your little panties. Get it through your thick head, We have many divisions, we have many cars, we cant put all the same engines in all the same cars and we dont want to loose models or divisions. Quite the damn nit pickin, the easiest thing in the world to do is be contrare all the time. None of the engines above have anything going on over the 3.9 to degrade the 3.9 over. There is a mileage issue and thats about it.

loose block heater ? what is this Alaska with a diesel ? side air bags are for loosers that cant drive, loosers that cant drive dont belong in anything but a KIA Onstar come in that Mazda, well loose that anyhow _35 695 690 =1420 Im at $28100.00 for something I could live with, could probably land that for 26000 and be driving American as it should be.

Reg - your cant rev line has been old but even the stats givin by mattson show their is only one higher rever of these 4 engines. Theres alot of things that go on while only you are driving a car ?

I cant get anything out of Pontiac.com except very slow loading and some very very fine print that looks nearly Japanese. I was going to try to price out a GTP but had no luck. Did a Solstice last week and that went but still had that funny tiny Japanese looking print. Watup?

looks like Nissan is the problem but thats OK because aside from the 350, Nissans are buttfugly

OK, well its new and can hopefully only be improved upon. I have a feeling the big price comes from new engine and this new 6speed ?

Good read - notice the "Related Content" at the side http://motortrend.com/roadtests/classic/11...ado_developing/

How in the hell did I miss the boat when my lake doesnt hold any water in the first place :lol: Thanks for the info on intake runners. Makes since. The 3.8 actually fit in the W bodies just as well as the 2.8&3.1 due to the overall height of the engine. then the simple low heads and valve covers followed by a no nonsence intake made for a nice tight package, not the case with the chev60*. I actually wasnt talking about power performance anyhow but the milage issues. they got the HP figure of this complicated 60*3.9 up nice but milage is worse than forced 3.8 so somehow all this 60* still doesnt seem to be where it should in overall milage & power performance. simple 3.5 sounds like its not too bad but can it go 300,000 miles ? I know, who cares we buy new and trade at 59,000. Reg - I dont think a simple SOHC would have any benefits over where the inblock is at this point of developement. Mileage would mostlike be down and torque would be as well. As for balance shafts didnt I read that all these engines have balance shaft now ? So why does this 3.9 fall short in mileage compared to older 3.8 's when it has all this variable stuff ? The fuel ecnomy issue is the one thats going to hurt it. We still need some type of variable in engine choices with a company that has so many models and divisions. I just wish I knew why the 3.9 seems to be falling short of expectations and what would seem like practical economy numbers ?

These are Sports cars, thats all about braking distances, lateral G's and transitional handling [ignoring the fact that LS7 smokes the V10]. Any road race Ive ever watched has Vipers flying off the track into the tire walls left and right trying to keep up with Corvette. I believe those brakeing distances prove the point. The Viper was quite a car in mid-late 90's, C5 surpassed it, now GM has C6 and Viper is playing catch up. Competion is good, maybe Viper, Saleen, Ford, can do it again but they have a reach. then lets not forget the Viper engine is 1.3 litres larger :o Viper SRT-10 Price: $85,995 Miles Per Gallon: 12/20 mpg Curb Weight: 3450 lbs Layout: Front-Engine/RWD Transmission: 6-Speed Manual Engine Type: V10 Displacement: 8277 cc Horsepower: 500 bhp @ 5600 rpm Torque: 525 lb-ft @ 4600 rpm Redline: 6000 rpm Z06 Price: $65,800 Miles Per Gallon: --/-- mpg Curb Weight: 3132 lbs Layout: Front-Engine/RWD Transmission: 6-Speed Manual Engine Type: V8 Displacement: 7000 cc Horsepower: 505 bhp @ 6300 rpm Torque: 470 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm Redline: 7000 rpm My old friend that has a basic C5 got a test drive in a friends Viper and said it was totally different, he could tell it was purpose breed for the track, it had no manors under normal driving conditions. Another friend has rolled one, apparently they are completely unforgiving, they hold the road excellently but when they let go its all over no counter steering, no correcting, gone, thats what I have seen in ALMS races. Keep tryin Chrysler, Ford, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Maserati, Ferrari, I sure like seeing you out there, makes for pretty colors. :-) proper pecking order since 2001 Got GM ?

Oh boy here we go again, a great big company thats got more models more drivetrains and still has near record sales years doesnt have the top engine in all catagories. Im just going to go cry. BFD. 2 hp here 2 hp there, winning on the track. Gaining 6/10ths between its own engines makes it a worthless investment but if it lacks one tenth of a second off your favorite flavor of rice or kraut its a POS. I understand the 60* V6 issue as well as not developing both but the Chevy based 60* just never accomplished what the 90* has. I just dont understand why ? So if the 90* V6 being naturally flawed is one point against the 3.8 whats that say about the 60* always comming up short ? BTW a 60* V6 is just a 60* V 12 with 6 cylinders chopped off :P I have held great hopes for this "new" V6 PR engine, i sure hope they get it performing correctly in the MPG and torque department. Otherwise the SC 3800 will still blow its plug wires off- perhaps that is the problem "hey, someone wanna check those plug wires !"

I cant find that site, apparently there is an Austrailian writter ro politician or something that fills all Jefferys searches. I am not good at searches anyhow.

Diesels are great for economy but are still a rattly, noisy, smelly vibrating thing and massive use of diesel will only raise the expensive of fuel which also has other even more important uses. Who know what percentage less stations provide diesel, the diesel use in cars negitive list is long. Howed you like to get in a traffic jam full of thousands of idleing diesels ?

So my screen is slightly yellow, is this car a green or blue ?

Oh my, my my my my my, I wonder what Mr Mitchell thought of this. This might have outsharked the shark. I have a goal in my life and it is to reproduce this car in some form. Possibly two forms.

Now theres something wrong with my ears ? LOL Speaking of "Amazing and magical things happened. And I'm not just talking about the cars" Joe Mannix had a gorgous Black "African American receptionist type person" which was very very rare in those days. His show was also considered quite violent or even touted as most violent in its time. I watched it all the time, never missed a show, I loved it, I think it had to do with the "receptionist type person". Seriously I was young and did watch it every week. It was also one of the few hour shows if I remember correctly. I do not remember the Toronado, I seem to remember a Barracuda convertable maybe. The Firebird was Garner or did Manniz have a Firebird too ? Seems it was a green car. Senility !

There it is right there, yes the so powerfull word used to down anything Buick V6, antiquated. So I did go somewhere I was not supposed to, ey ? Yet Im sure we support anything LS related and use that oh so powerful word "refined". Well the 3.6 is a Australian built V6 and really expensive and complex, will prove to be a financial nightmare for each and every used car buyer. Then it really doesnt perform that outstandingly well by comparision per dollar, not to mention N American jobs, inability to fill the demand of everybody wanting it in every GM model, not to mention the lack of exclusive that comes from doing so. Well this topic was not about saving or destroying the pushrod engines but once again just to see where this engine stood in developement. If this 10 year olds design is antiquated "just think of how primitive the automobile itself is Barney" "we should have those hovering personalized carpets by now, right Fred ?"

Yes I agree, drafts for 70 Toro should have been drawn much earlieras well as XP's, clays and maybe even show cars. Makes since. Wish I knew more about these Toronados, like that book I have on Corvette. Would be interesting to see various drafts and Xp's. Now I was just thinking, what about the rectangle headlight ? what was the first appearence of them ? Production GM was 74/75 ? Never mind I see this is a round sealed beam in a rectangle [ish] bezel. Still a hint of things to come? Then I remember something I discovered about a 60's Exner design that has hints of this 70 Toronado, and I forget what it was.

aint kill a horse yet my friend, whats your point ? Was there something wrong with my theory ? Did I tread on some territory I was not supposed too ?