razoredge

I hate him !!!!!!!!! :angry: . . . . Who is he ? :unsure: Didnt see that Farenheit, I heard about it though. Whats he all about ? Id at least like to know before I go fullfill the contract :P

Not sure what this means, not sure if its some kind of insult to the American auto industry, or if its got something to do with post Roger Smith Flint ?

yea, we heard :) http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif So maybe if the workers take the hits, the health care industry can soldier on. I agree its very very ugly, other areas through out the country as well, then theres more industries effected by the same trends. I had been thinking Flint was already a wasteland/history.

Up the creek but you still have your paddle :) LEX LEX where is LEX ? Its not commin to me

at least now we are up to 15 per hour. :) On 40 hours thats 600 a week - roughly 450 through the door. 31,200 gross somewhere around 24,000 into a houshold when all is said and done.

I understand that, the history of the Catskills and Hudson Valley some of the oldest in the country was interesting and full of these changes. Those changes were not benefiting smaller populations, or fueled by economists, or benefiting some foreign country while hurting ours. They were more natural not induced. Still I do understand what you are saying, I believe todays scenerio is much different and will be really ugly when it comes full throttle. As for the wage ideal, will any changes be made in the areas this economic level and these populations and jobs exist in and what kind of picture is that going to paint ? This is where my extreme reference to trailor parks and cracktown has come from. I just try to look at the whole thing. I am for a prosperous America, Im just not seeing it at the end of this scenerio. We do have a large population and its not getting any smaller. [now were up to $30 per hour, how high next week ?, is this like an auction ?] Caddy - We all know why Union wages are higher, and set higher standards, or at least should. Who are you to speak of anothers value ? Justify one and discriminate against another ?

Does Libertarian exist ? In reality I mean ? Sorry about China, I had thought things changed over there, I also thought communism was dead. :P Can communism also be socialist ? I mean Democracy can or is that supposed to be a "Republic" :o Does any of it really exist :blink:. Snate - a household could do OK in my area with two incomes around $15@hr. There would be little to no gains unless stacked up on a credit card. There is also furtherment in these areas too, its the gains that are hard to come by. I've mentioned many heavy inflation areas the past few years. These have made the reality of these proposed wage levels less realistic. Times have changed.

So then much of Europe, Japan, China and who knows who else is socialist ? The Canadian lumber industry at least in Quebec has been doing well. Much of the south will be rebuilt with N. East grown timber, which will be shipped to & manufactured in Quebec and then shipped South. :unsure:

So if that damn "socialist" (if thats what it is) country deregulated, costs would go down in the US and rise in Canada ? Yarite ! What ever happend to that "say no to drugs" campaign ?

Well you definantly surprised me on that one. Seems odd you would call me an ignorant fool and then state there would be no more response ? Had you not repeatedly said people were not worth more than 10-15 an hour all this could have been avoided. Thats reality. I can comprehend everything else you say but not this one, never ! As far as hitting me on "self pity and uninformed opinion", " we only have ourselves to blame if things do not go as planned", I can only say wow ! Call me ignorant, misinformed and errational. Decent wages for all Americans - self pity ? opinion? blame ? I have said repeatedly that I do not have the answers but have also pointed out all the problems. Your history and facts are exactly what has led us to these problems today. Are you suggesting that there is not labor, health care and economic problems in this country at this point in history ? I wish you could answer but I realize you can not, Id just like to know all these things I say that I should not believe and where is my lack of rationality ? You choose to degrade me so why dont you take one of my posts, where I thought I was being rational and tear it apart and show me this ignorance. Calling for strike - would be ignorant, I have not even suggested that Throwing people down to 10-15 per hour would be ignorant, not one of them could continue to support life in their areas. Wheres the lack of reality there ? The current trade agreements have had a very negitive impact on a large percentage of our population. Wheres the lack of reality in that ? The healthcare and added operating costs (oil, steel) have been stated as being the demon at GM now, as well as across America, some industries are free of the steel problem but have that oil thing going on. Im still searchin for this ignorance, please point me the way. My saying we all do not want to and should not have to go into "office*" work to live a decent life is ignorant ? Pointing out that I have seen/heard many of these office and tec jobs negitivity effected by this crap, is lacking in reality ? I generalize the "office*" to indicate inside, sit down work which seems to be whats available with most of these higher ed fields mentioned, its not to degrade any job field, I just dont know what else to call it. Outside work, inside work. If you can really tear everything I have written down, do it. Id hate to go through life completely ignorant. Do it without spinnin it please. Do it without a bias that shows your attitudes on world labor markets benefits your gains quite well and how the effects they are having on our economy isnt hurting our workforce. I mean some kinda of answer besides "life is rough" would be more "rational" and certainly more educating, most of us got that life is tough thing down long ago. Im pretty sure mankind has been trying to improve on life and the work that needs to be done for centuries, much contributions have been made by men similar to myself as we have devoured up all the roughness and said "thank you, may I have another ? " So come on, perhaps all this roughness has made me ignorant and irrational ?

Whos, Layne Staley, Chris Cornell and Scott Weiland ?

But beings how its so popular :bowdown: Couldnt have said it better

world economics, trade policies, we dont live in a world environment, we live in the American environment. We dont have one world leader, we have American "leaders", they are supposed to be looking out for whats good for our country not Japan, China, India, Turkey, Mexico, Brazil. Calling that socialist, or dated ideas, or protectionalist, is BS, its about maintaining decent standard of living within our country, our concern. Perhaps raising the rest of the world to our standards is "socialism". Perhaps catering to wealthy corporate execs and wallstreet investors is "protectionizm" ? perhaps throwing X percentage of the American population into poverty is "communism" or "Imperialism" or ... ? :unsure:

Well somebodys hard at work, I sure hope all those cars go to good homes ;-) Must be an amazing site to see !

correct, that is why I say the largest contributor, is the problem that needs to be dealt with too. I didnt mean you when I said "your" 4 year degree. I was referencing typical college ed. Glad to hear you got something good out of your 2 years, thats impressive.

Im lovin this ! Keep em commin. :) yea mention the band too, cause I can tell I havent heard a few of these...much.

Incoherent babblings of a moron was your first girlfriend the daughter of a Union worker who called you for what you are ? I see there is some serious issues here.

I think its had more to do with keeping jobs in this country and keeping the pension plans solid.

Well I wasnt really looking for compassion, compassion after the fact is BS.I was looking at reality. Getting up some answers to the unbalanced trade in the world and its effect on our country is the only priority, but it wont happen because the big shots are benefiting from this. While its obvious to me that from both blue and white collar workers lower in the food chain it is rocking their world. I beleive the decisions of a countrys government are supposed to favor its population. Even if they do not favor one demographic of the population they certainly are not suppose to destroy them..........HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bowtiedude- your views on ed and self improvement are noble of ideals and principles. They bare no reality of application to a diverse population. Forget that some folks just arent really bright, there are others that have learning problems or attention problems then theres the big one, just plain arent interested in these fields of work others may find interesting. I'm not dumb by any streach but I hated school so much I must have quit in my mind nearly everyday the last 2 years of school. I wound have done nothing but been a big waste of money at a college, I knew it and turned down all oppertunities to go. All potential fields suggested to me made my skin crawl. It was not work for me. I also couldnt work an assembly line and I couldnt sit in an office. When I was young this did not mean I wouldnt have work, it still does not, having work is one thing, being able earn enough to be in the game is getting very hard. I search jobs all the time, I see the pay of some of these "competitive" white collar jobs too and let me tell you I know many of them are in the same boat. Like I said from the beginning we have an entire population to think about here. You all are acting like the job market could handle all these manufacturing workers after they get 4 year degrees and enter your fields of work. Then in the next paragraph you will say "we all had to take cuts, we had to start again, we have to compete for our jobs ". Perhaps you should listen to that. Your four year degree would be great for me, Id be 51, trying to get hired for a job with 100 23 year olds for competition. Reality! These and many other reasons is why I, on occasion when I have had about enough of the pipe dream, bring up the fact that many here just havent had enough experience to see the reality of some of their proposals or ideals. This Evok may be one of them, its impossible to live in this world today on 10-12 dollars an hour. It does not get you through the door with 400 dollars a week. Rent, utilities, food, and car payments & insurance can not be supported on this money. No savings can be made, forget that, it will be a continous game of bill juggling and in no time it will come to a head. Hell gasoline consumption will be 50-80 per week from here on out. thats 200-300 a month right there. Auto insurance for two car family is 200 a month, rents are from 500 - 800 higher in urban areas. Im just talking my area which is considered low. Morgages are almost always near 1000 anywhere and house today. Higher in other areas. Hell if you own your house outright, you need from 200-400 a month just for property taxes. So ask me what economic courses I took, Ill ask what economic courses did you take ? Must have been ones in which things didnt need to pass the calculator test ? That economics ?

Doesnt matter, Man or Woman, country or soul, great lyrics or great dynamics, metal screamer or smooth jazz operater So tell me who can really sing ? no big lists please, I could make one with hundreds of names. What vocalist really set you back the most when you first heard them and may have gone further than previous favorites ? Try to make a pick or two. Im looking for the best :)

Yea I got the Power Rangers and Turtles when my daughter was young, lots of animal planet, ect. We had Scooby though, scoob and shag were the best. How about 100 yard wheelies on a single speed 20" bike ? Walking the tracks, running the salt cars sitting down in the tressels when the trains blew through climbing through open car carrier RR cars that had early 70's cars all shiney and new, headed for their dealerships. carrying Guitar in one arm and twin 12" amp in the other great distances for the soul purpose of cranking out terrible renditions of Smoke on the Water, Funk 49 and Born to be Wild on hot summer days. climb to the top of a tree call of the Loon song of the coyotes smell of fresh cut hay chasin fire flys catching trout in hand beneath the rocks 16" of snow is a party first day in the lake by May :blink: sunset swims in the evening calm of August :) better yet sunset ski in that dead evening calm :D "These are a few of my favorite things" http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif

ever wonder if the trade agreements went up as a public bill if they would have been voted through or not ? It completely splits the population. Those that benefit from it and those that suffer from it. Maybe its even darn close as far as splitting the country as the Civil War was. Not in the war sence but in the split. History has shown its not a good thing when a country has one motivation that doesnt work for a large part of the population. Face it this global shit is benefiting other countries far more than ours. Right here is the evidence :unsure:

I agree whole heartedly with Wildcat, these posts are just trouble makers and but another wrong turn. Pontiac has the most promising line up right now. saturin has nothing, what? two potential cars, one is a Pontiac rebadge and the other is a RWD Aurora/Audi 6 years behind the fact ? Toot ! toot ! saturin is still not making any money Pontiac and Buick are the only ones selling volumn and have been selling volumn. Yes BOP was the meal ticket for these morfidite leaches that have sucked the developement dollars out of GM. Dumb thread, highly suspect of the motive behind posting it. Like I said the answers lie in the sales volumn, not opinion

Well I dont know Kids, who had the highest sales last year ? therein lies the answer ! Somehow I doubt it was the American Yugo