razoredge

B)

the day will come, like retro or not, you will look at that car and like it for its character, you will see it as it is rather than be bothered by what it isnt.

But theyed work far better in Executive and Governmental positions http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif ....and think of the savings ! :P

If the best you got is to be the 8th person to try to make me look stupid because I cant spell, congratulation I feel real dumb :rolleyes: I dont have time for spell check, I can tell you do have real troubles following me, sorry

Not much of a bubble to burst, so Ill assume you meant nothing demeaning to me by that. We had been somewhere around what you are talking for years, back in the 80's early 90's. Became better established in the 90's bought and paid for cheap house, got business loans paid off, all was brite. Then came this "new millinium", new better economy, but it didnt come to our house. It did however come to many many other areas and we heard that sucking sound. Am I supposed to agree with this ? NOT ! Ive been a contributor, Ive towed the line, Im not alone. Its good to know that some like yourself agrees with it though. Im sure theres a few here now that will know theres no need to give that next REAL pay raise, because you have just illustrated how easy it is to get ahead at 10-13 dollars an hour. Im highly suspect however, your complete figures would not pass the calculator test in my area and I/we are the living defination of cheap. Maybe your teachers benefits help ? http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif So your living proof someone can live off 10 bucks an hour ? Well so am I. So what are you saying ? "Hey all you employers 10 bucks an hour is great, look at me ?" Well hey, Im living proof a man can live on 2.10 an hour too, 3.50 an hour 4.00, an hour, 6 an hour, Im up to 1980 now :rolleyes: Was up to 10 + by 82 running ariel cable, by the hour for some stuff, by the foot for normal production which could approach 20per on a good day. BUT!!!!!! I was laid off approx half a year and it rained half of the other half (exageration) and work was very hard to come by and money was pathatic, so by 84 I was self employed and said good by to $per hour and went full production 365 (nearly). Was great and proud until the "new" "global" "economy" "millinium". Somehow I never felt very manly back in 2000 & 2001 when I was walking through the door with 326 dollars a week spending down our savings which was little more than money left over from my once fairly prosperous business. Got Kids ?

Theres still lots of money squandered in this country. Not that I care about tall buildings. Im glad NYC has them though. If they dropped everything down to 3 stories the population would over run the entire state. Keep the ants down in that ant hill and stack em up to the sky.

"So, how handy are you guys with a hammer?" Is that another trick question Blu ? :) I do everything myself, I had even half dug out the basement underneath this camp I bought, by hand and wheelbarrel, however I did finally hire a guy to put it up on steel and finish with track loader and a mason to do the block work. Still I was there working on the labor end. All carpentry, plumbing, electrical, car repairs, body work, welding and whatever else needs to be done I do it. I like to keep stuff inhouse and I dont like other people "touchin my stuff". Before I learned how to do more "stuff" I was always unhappy with the quality of work or loss of bulge in pocket, that and the Vaseline thing. http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif

What will they ever do with that .28 cents and hour ? Lets see, thats a whole 11.2 bucks a week, or 44.8 gross buckerunies a month, so say maybe 30-32 smackers per month, new apartment maybe ? Opp's Im doing it arent I . Sorry :rolleyes: Thats more reasonable than here but still scary. Not that many jobs really pay minimum in reality, stores, gas stations, fast foods, ect. Some may start there but move up quickly to a higher level of poverty. OK Im out of here, this is a more radical topic for me than the other ones.

Im not being a prick (this time) so dont take this wrong. What you said from my view is " It's an unpleasant thought that everyone can't make enough". And in responce to the inflation reality my view is "not in blind capitolism". Theres no lack of income or revenue in this country its the distribution and investment that need adjusting. I wont pursue an argument on yet another topic - I hope :)

Na its probably got something to do with that "better global world thing" Less is more in America or is it More is more ? Boy we just cant make up our mind can we ? <_<

6 something here in NY State. It scares the hell out of me. I dont think young HS or college people could even pay their auto insurance off minimum wage let alone car payments and buy gas for the damn thing. minimum wage should be the equalivent weekly pay of the average monthly morgage in any giving area. woo hoo !!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I was hoping for more responces and ideas on this but ?? So that night I was listeneing to Queensryche "The Warning" and was influenced to finally ask here being how there seemed to be many music tastes and interests here. I was glad to see two others imeadiatly said Geoff Tate. He could sing Opera with the best of the Tenors, or he could go to Broadway and do any musical with power, passion and intensity never imagined. However the best thing about Tate is he sings his own stuff, does his own thing, its progressive modern, not something by a classic composer or modern playwrite. All creative and origional. I was glad to see a few of the R&B vocalists mentioned as well as one of my old favorites Robert Plant. :)

But also, its because you could do that, you had that ability. Some of us have other abilitys that you may not or possibly could not do or tolerate or be interested in. Many of the jobs or occupations we went into back before the big "change" did have potential, we too were applying ourselfs, we too gave alot, we towed the line. *we - DMF's like myself that did not go to a formal education post HS.

Unions should have looked inside themselfs to see what was wrong with the picture and fixed it, along long time ago. Protecting slackers, bad attitudes, poor working characteristic, and in the case of the UAW some really silly contract conditions, but then again someone fell for it or at least they did not use the conditions to their benefit but rather continued to close shops, tear down buildings and pay non working employees. Organized labor is a good thing or can be I should say. It exists in all fields, so many just dont put a name on it, unspoken words, yet they have a unilateral objective and thats to keep their professions at the absolute peek of potential income. In the more labor-ish fields its more difficult to keep incomes in check and large workforces focused, so hence Unions seemed to be the answer. None of its that difficult in theory its the applaction that get tricky and out of control. Its called humanity. Selfish, self centered human nature. It exists in all professions.

Oh for some reason I thought Ca. So wow, MN is very very expensive. I worked hard all my life to be the best at every thing I did, so I could demand better pay for my contributions to society. Which have been significant. College would have been a walk in the park if I didnt have such a hatred for enclosed buildings and the book, but then there Id be today, fat, unstimulated, ignorant, lacking of so many experiences. Yep it takes all kinds to make the world go round. Some of us just excert more energy doing it. Wanna Dance ;-)

No! profitable Buick cant have a Kappa, we need to give non profitable saturin a Kappa.....Theres my Kappa stance :angry: As for a better reality than GM is headed suckling that impoverished brand would be this Kappa at Buick, full lux sports in only two options a coupe or a Vert. Any and all options would be delete. I guess exept for all this new gidget, gadget electrono, save my ass garb, I guess they would have to be options. Then the replacement for the current Lacrosse with a platform that would take care of backseat issues and be bodied with strikingly styled sedan and 2dr. hardtop would be most appropriate. I embrace the 3.9 but somehow it gives me the creeps in the same sentence as Buick. Ill need time on this one. Still and all though, what good would it do ? :unsure: To answer the question - YES, Buick deserves the Kappa, Buick made much money during the 80's & 90's for GM, wheres their investment from profits ?

Oh boy, where to start ? Great Post Bri - Buick will always be Buick to me, Im not the one confused. Lutz should be kept from speaking publicly or even privately, he just says one foolish thing after another. I too have been so fed up with this, comparing to other companies, "think" some other brand. Such BS. When I think Buick I think of Buick, same for all the rest of Gm's lineup, Im not confused but somehow GM feels it needs to unconfuse the rest of the American public so they start pulling Lexus, BMW, Mercedes comparo's and it reaks of desperation, which it is. Things are very desperate. "Wouldnt you really rather have a Buick ?" Well yes I would ! So now lets have it, Buick is about styling, class, and iron fist in a velvet glove. So where is the styling ? Its OK but it aint Buick ! Its conservative, it (has)says Im retired. Or I dont want to stand out in a crowd. They just improved on that some but it still not Buick, its still not new, unique styling that reaches out and grabs you. Its a hard task I know but they had better get on it. Names, I dont like whats going on there but Im going with it, it wont change, we just need to hope these damn cars sell. I have no problem with Lacrosse, I have always know of the game which is rugged and I myself have two pairs of Lacrosse winter boots. Lucerne is a little limp for me but Ill deal. Neither of the cars are really sporty enough looking for me anyhow. Many of those big Luxury Buicks had a sporty styling edge to them, not so much anymore, that I really dont like. Rendezvous is a name I myself like, a Rondy is a part of American heritage, it was a annual fur trade event. There is still a dogsled race called the Rondy, infact a few on that theme I think, it is Americana and Im glad Buick picked this one up. Of course in order to be a bunch of PC, bleeding heart, other culture embracing bunch of liberals they need to put a Spanish twist on it. :rolleyes: Toro, Eldo were the same kind of thing. I'd love to have a 38 Special SC :CG_all: Yea, thats right ! That would be a lightweight (3000lb) RWD Sport Coupe, powered by none other than an IRON FIST 3800 SuperCharged at its full potential, not the choked down version that GM marketed, mated to the new 6 stick. It would have body sweeps and the correct amount of chrome, fully non optioned interior velvet glove, but none of the BS that is making all new cars heavier than a 60 Caddy at half the size. No head hammer bags, no ankle bracelet bags, "no help me please Im so lost," no "here kids shut up and watch TV", no "I cant stop without ABS", I cant go without TC. Just the goods. American Power, comfort, American leather, American hardwood in its natural state, real padded leather, cloth, wood and chrome bezel interior panels. All wrapped in a body shell that makes me leak ! I mean weak ! What more is there to say Iron Fist in a Velvet Glove

Think it through ? saturin has never turned a buck ! never ! If you dont turn a buck it means you are worthless blood sucking scum. That is saturins history, not something that needs to be thought through. We have a bunch of people here putting staurins strenght up high on speculation. Yet they are still not profitable. Like I said "big deal", they have a few new cars coming out, one of which is a rebadged Solstice with some Corvette looks. The rest are from what I understand rebadged Opels which were at one time imported and sold by Buick dealerships but sold under the name by which they were manufactured - Opel. But you know what......just like saturin they were junk and not that desireable in the States. All this saturin crap is speculation with not one thread of reality. That money spent on their "new" lineup could have been better spent at Buick and Pontiac and the Buick and Pontiac dealerships could have sold real Opels as Opels and that would have helped at the dealership level as well. GM knows this too, they are just hangin on this saturin thing because they just cant accept defeat and wrap it up. They will insist on making saturin some form of "profitable", all others be damned.

It seems some consession from the leadership would go along way to help workers agree to consessions. The recent BS with the Delphi leaders was a poor sign of leadership and only poured fuel on the flames.

Thanks for the realistic evaluation of 15 from your area. Now try to imagine this 10-15, and in an area that has already had the economists push cost of living in those areas up to extract every last possible penny from that areas much higher income. Your in Ca. right ? So this is the scenerio in your area ? Sound very much the same as here. Older suburban areas with the "Levitown" style small houses from post war era can be had for less, more around $175,000 - $200,000. Just 8 years ago they were $60 - 80,000. Now people are paying 40-60,000 just for a building lot. Our incomes have not moved in 10 years. The scale is so f'ed up it actually bending. BTW - My wife just informed me her health insurance just went up. Another $40 per bi weekly check. Thats $.50 per hour, actually more because she rarely gets over 32-36. Now the annual raises are only $.30-.50(cents) per hour and they already took this years raise earlier so now that means shes down to where she was 2 years ago, but actually they took that raise too, so in reality she is back to the through the door pay she was earning 8 years ago. :blink: Currently there is $1.75 per hour of just her income going into her single program, my daughter and I are on mine (we arent "legal" married). Then the company pays 50%, so thats $3.50 per hour these health care _ _ _ _ _ _ get from each and every employee, not a bad racket considering how close to minimun wage that is. Many of our local Union plans are somewhat cheaper because of volumn = buying power of sorts. Hey is that racketeering ? :lol: :rolleyes: somehow I just know all this is the fault of Union employees..........yarite !

Yep, well you go into your first job interview and tell them that so they know enought to pay you less. Of course you have lots of experience in the job market, bill paying, rent, mortgages, pay your own auto insurance ? tax's, and of course you have an interest in a future right ? Then show it ! :blink:

Looks like they put alot of thought into the structural architecture so say something like a big ol' jet airliner couldnt take it down. :P Once symbols of industrial power and might. Stay tuned America :( American history are becoming two interesting words...... when put together in same sentence

Im not sure what "vestage" means :lol: However Im up on unnecessary and meanings. I made a brief statement about a deleted post of mine on a topic here. It was necessary for me to make note that the post was deleted and that I disagreed. The was no reason for me or anyone else to say any more. It was just me saying "I know what you did and I saw you do it :lol: " I realized it was done to try to keep things undercontrol. But I didnt care :) Necessary at the time, pointless now meant something at the time, no longer has any relevence :CG_all:

Yes, Ive seen programs on Flint in the aftermath and lots of storys about Buick city and its destruction and the vast wasteland created. But like I asked is this saying from post Smith Flint or before. What exactly does it mean. Is it to degrade the auto industry and its workers, inhabitants or is it becuase its now a poor run down futureless wasteland? Ive seen programs about its glory days and its wealth and then about its present state and some attempts to rehab, something about some stupid downtown mall or heritage museam to try to get some kind of money back into the town. All in vain. Yea, things change alright . Wait Alright - Alwrong, Alright - Alwrong :unsure:

Did Michael Moore do the one , looking for Roger ? Or whatever it was called. About Flint and Roger Smith back in the 80's ?