razoredge

G6 C Rocks, I dont have time to waste while rest load =}:-)

Holy smokes :blink: now we have forklift operators making 80,000 a year.....now whos tellin the jokes here :lol: We had the worlds largest, everything when things were more like what Im talking about . :lol: Not that I was interested in being the Pres. but thanks for the nomy <_< Why are you so upset about reducing the wages of college grades to 80,000 when your happy to reduce......hold on .....what was it?.......... 98% ==== 2% of Americans population to 18,000. I though I was being very fair offering nearly 4.5 times more. think of the money we'd be saving, maybe 60,000 would be more reasonable. :P throwin inflation out - that would mean after 4.5 years, my paisty white ass would finally be where you were after only one year. At that point the college grad would be at 360,000 while me the one who " cant get smart enough" would just reach 84,000. Then in a total 20 years will finally reach that 360,000 :blink: woot ! yee ha ! Almost as much as the average house. Ah, no, but thanks for the generous offer. :lol: Whos shoe, which foot ?

Yea, but I bet they would love confederacys. :lol:

T'was, Snow Wolf .. prog metal with a touch of 70's brat exploring funky jazz fusion with typical heavy blues overtones http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif

First - Thanks for the chuckly Fly, but perhaps you should read some of what I write. Its very very simple to understand. I just ask the questions no one wants to answer. Thats why they have yet to be answered, all anyone has come up with is calling me lazy and telling me, I feel myself and other Americans are entitled. Well ya know what, we are entitled to make a good living, we're hardworking Americans, daughters and sons of hard working Americans who were daughters and sons of other hard working Americans so on and so forth. Do you all think this country came to be what it is because all those men and woman rolled over and followed some sheep herders to slaughter ? :unsure: So, XLR :) What? did that just grab you by the 'ol spenders and shake you right where you stood ? Somehow I believe I know the feeling, dont worry though. It was just a statement, its not like something that you'll have to deal with when you go to the bank and deposit a pay check. I hope you dont think a CEO looks over the "300,000" workers, do you ? He just a conductor, delegating dutys elsewhere. Lets just say hes probably about as busy as anybody else thats doing their job. So if we gonna have the American workforce working for $18720 annual Id say $80,000 is livin large. That is 36 dollars an hour.... incidently. Anymore than that would be an outrage. Whos shoe, which foot ? B)

Hey, Ill have to give them a call and see if we're related. Thats my last name. Yep, Steve Hitler ! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dead on Reg ! I agree with Josh about seeing proof of these jobs that pay 100 times what Wagoner makes. Or 10 times what others make. then Id like to know what they do really earn and then Id like to hear about what makes them worth more than $80,000 a year. Shouldnt have any problems living a good life on $80,000 :blink: I think everything they make in excess of $80,000 should be givin back by concession then divided up amounst the employees that get the job done. If someone out there is makeing 100 million a year, I would suggest they pay their employees better.

Yes but even he did not care to address, why health care is so expensive, yet so profitable in this country ? Nor why there is outside competition from exploited labor countries and why we Americans are supposed to stoop to that level. 16 dollars an hour in 79 was a fair and decent wage, I was at $10 in 79 carrying concrete block for a non union mason. Just to give a realistic comparision. Remember now we want Delphi workers to work for 1 dollar an hour less than I was earning in 79... thats 24 years ago. You know when car insurance was 220 a year, property taxes were 300 a year, a fair morgage was 3-400 a month. A Doctors or Dentist visit was 25 bucks. Then he says the 25 per is 50% more. which is 12.50 and those workers have no or little bene's ? Now this shows how fast we are flyin backwards, yet lurching forward.

Spit it out Dave, dont just throw out personal insults ? Are you suggesting that its better to just walk away and let it go? Screw it ? Cant see it from my house ? Has no effect on me ? So what big deal ? the rest of the world has a shiny future and common Americans are now looking down the barrel of a cheap labor shotgun ? Ill never surrender, so that one you all can give up. There was many questions in that post and you offered up " Some people are missing the point..." you are very correct !

Not to make trivi the rest of your post but with this I need to ask, "so now were up to 32 dollars an hour ?" I'd also like to point out that the real problem is the immeadiate problem of throwing American workers into poverty. I am glad to see someone thinking long term, however. This current problem was the long term problem 30 years ago, when our government allowed themselves and our corporations to forget how America came to be and that there was a population to look out for.

Oh, really ? The lack of substance in your responces show , what ? Then are you suggesting that I have a lack of knowledge of what constitutes a decent living in the USA ? Then are you suggesting that I shouldnt care what constitutes a decent living in the USA ? Then are you suggesting that if a "USA" company no longer employees American citizens at a decent living in the USA, I should still support that company and be.... what ?........a proud American ? Now, are you suggesting that only UAW workers are the only over paid employees in the GM machine ? Then, are you suggesting that only the Union workers in this country are the only overpaid employees in this country ? After that, are you suggesting that there is a lack of money floating around this country ? So little money that we must throw our own labor base into poverty because our corporations and our government decided it would be in thier financial interest to exploit foreign labor, screw all else ? Finally, just when, will any of you, step up to the plate and address the real issues of inflation that have caused these more recent dooms day finances coming from within GM's and Others accounting departments ? Cost of healthcare ? Cost of Steel ? Cost of operating expences related to oil ? ... I have maintained from the beginning of these arguements that everyone was choosing to ignore these problems and go straight to the bottom and take it out of the hides of the employees. Its been months now and still not one of the noncollege grad haters, has stepped up to the plate and addressed these issues. Is it perhaps because these more severe problems are to hard to fix ? . . . or is it that these industries that are the real thorn in the side of all working Americans and American businesses are showing great profits for those involved ?

"your way" you realize is that you want to exploit labor from your own kind, within your own country, just incase you have a problem realizing what you say. Once you get it your way what will be the point ? I asked this yesterday, didnt get an answer. Whats the point of labor going back to where it was 100 years ago ? Whats the point of an "American" company when its not American anymore. Why would I not just simply buy a Hyundia and get that great warrenty and cheap car ? I mean I could, I could have gotten into a new Hyundia for no more than I got into a used Oldsmobile. Why not just the whole country buy cheap Sofias and have more for the mortgage ?

Get what Chris ? That people living in this country need jobs. That the jobs these people need also need to meet the living standards that are and have been in effect in this country. Just like others you have nothing except quick little one liner picking apart some little hair out of place or some cute little phrase like the entitlement or how about the one above "just dont get it". What is it you dont get ? That is the problem, its what you dont get.

throw insults around and then say panties in a tither when your done? Dont get to excited Im no where near where I just begin to get comfortable. Once again you bring nothing just some kind of nose in the air attitude that I surely cant understand. I guess thats the point , right ? So where is this "indirectly...illustrates" ? And whats it supposed to mean ? you have nothing or else you wouldnt just pick some little hair out of place and go after that. More of the straw grasping, not one responce to all the other problems that are truely the cause. waffle waffle waffle

Whats a hyper bowl ? Is that what 6T8 eats his breakfast from ? :lol: You cant get closer to facts than ones real life and others one may know. Debateing from the safe distance of some writtin or taught text or model is far too phony for myself. You aint fast enough to get to my shins B) by some standards Im still a snot nosed kid. I just cant believe croc didnt put me on his list ? :(

exactly, thats what this has all been about. minipulation. ignoring it is the answer, then you dont have to think about it. Its always easier to walk away than look it in the eye. To bad the people will never really see what killed the American auto industry and all others, they will only remember that last page. The page on which it was all blamed on simple people that got up everyday and went to work and did their jobs. Its so funny to hear Japanese telling "everything they have done for us " and Americans that cant see the reality of it, will believe it.

:) My bias "Union newsletter"? So whats your bias ? HMM ? A no, I live in this world, OK ? What world do you live in ? Come on lets hear it. Tell us about your world. yarite ! Then wanna show me these words that I put in your mouth ? I just reread the whole thing and I see no word put into your mouth. The only economics I care about is that check book balance and savings account, I suppose you know of a more complicated method of taking care of this... from a distant global location ? ? Perhaps manipulating mine and many others checking accounts and savings ? Pauwells go hurl if your that weak ! Still all protected in College ? Ive been living out here in the real world for 30 years. All you boys entitlement speel is just a degrading distraction. If all you can come up with is a entitlement insult, its lame and you are the one grasping at straws. Yep, entitlement insult is nothing but a straw, no substance behind it. You all seem to think your entitled to higher wages because you can lower us to third world standard of living. SO whats up with that ? Which foot, whos shoe ? Pauwells where the F do you get off telling me what I have done and about improvement, ambition and working for something or anything? You couldnt begin to walk the walk I have. Talk about stench. You didnt offer up a stinking thing except insult to someone you know nothing about. Go ahead big boy, take that entire post you quoted and break it down and define what is wrong with anything that is said in it ? GO ahead, improve yourself and show those skills at work. So Evok whats this BS about the cloths I wear ? Is that some kind of a status issue ? I did not move industries abroad. We buy what is put on the shelves when we need it. The textile industries began leaving way back in the 60's, hello ! thanks for quein' me up though. What does that have to do with finalizing the depleation of American jobs and throwing the rest of the population into poverty ? I will not fail, whats up with calling failure on people ? Your game will play out one day, then you will look back. The country is looking down the barrel of a gun on this one. If this goes quickly the way you all want it to go, all non college grads working in poverty, we'll see. You guys are so out of touch with real life it reeks of immaturity. How many college grads out there are not even working in their field of education ? How many cant find decent jobs and are complaining about their wages after "years of hardship in college" ? Enjoy your narrow little vision of the big picture but keep it off of my back. We've got a majority of the American population living 90 days away from bankrupt. Little to no equity in anything. Till you can offer up something besides "the world has changed" as a fits all answer, dont post on top of my back or insult my fellow American workers. If you do, be willing to take what I have to say about it. reducing the American workforce to the level of a over populated rice field ? What should we all go buy copies of the Good Earth and see if we can pick up some pointers to help us through the new millinium ?

Ya know, I scrolled through all the posts and not once, nowhere, no matter how hard I looked did I see anyone mention the 'ol edgy one :( http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif Actual I'd like to meet most everyone here. You'd be surprized. Yea, that really hurt croc ! :P

Yea, that girl you guys mentioned can sing, I was quite impressed. 2K if thats what its called, its down in the shop, all prog metal is in the "shop"..... =}:-0 ....., anyhow 2K was pretty good, has some riffs, some classic Tate. The guy from Symphony X has interesting variety and range too. Thats European Classical Prog Metal, Old school with a twist. Hes got some Dio in him but very theatrical in style changes. Crankin, Edge of Thorns, currently. Zack Stevens can sing a bit

I dont know, the top kinda works out with how the windows and tailights are all laid out. I think they could put another 2-4" on those sails/buttress though.

OK guys its a race car and its gonna fly off the track with out some down force on the back. I dont like that "wing" however. Nor do I like the tacked on very ricey looking side skirts with air vent, cheezy and I dont like how they carved the front vents either. Looks like cheap aftermarket sculpting. Also :rolleyes: not sure if that air damn is working with the bulbous front ? Hardtop is absolutely grotesque, is it a combo from a 80 Riviera and bubble top Vette ? I think so. Lets get some sails on that thing ! Not bad but not how Id do it. Love the color but I like it with a little more fire in it.

I didnt answer this. No I believe there is alot of fat to trim in the workforce. Afterthat all left standing should make a decent wage. I feel 14 start -18-20 experience might be something these people could still live at in the local economy that was created in their areas. It would work here, anyhow. Josh - I think the gov ins on the pensions is a very low per dollar ratio. The best way on pensions is to keep workforce working and growing, thereby increasing pension contributions. Outsourcing was a big contributor to loss of pension contributions. Growing retirement population, dwindling work population. This is almost like the cold war all over again isnt it ? Only its internal, its the wealthy wanting to throw the working backbone down, into poverty. Really these proposals and answers to Americans incomes are....kinda.....like.... fuedal.... remember? - "trailor park and crack city". One can only sit here and think "I hope the Russians love their children too".

Import tarrifs or total restriction. We cant employ at competitive levels with these countries. This is our country, it is what we made it. Some of us have decades into it. Along with our parents and grandparents, this is our country our economy and that is not the economy you guys are suggesting. We cant throw half of America in reverse so the other half goes into overdrive. If these companys close or leave or employ people at poverty levels what is the point of all of it anyhow ? Really at that point what is the point ? GM - Ford will truely be nameplates. Then who cares ? If its Chinese or Korean, just go and buy a Kia or Hyundia, hell their all tooled up and rollin. Why bother moving tooling, better to scrap it and sell recycle to China - right ? What all will it matter at that time? You all realize that steel cost is up something around 200% in this country because of China right ? You know that right ? Yet you wont address the way that problem is strappin all things steel in this country ? You understand the great losses in profits realized all over America just on account of the doubling of oil related products ? Right ? {this has also affected steel cost} We've been all over the thing with the health care industry being the main issue and I already know you cant address that problem. Yet you say I dont have a solution ? Well "lets not do anything" but throw em all into poverty, sure isnt the solution.

Evok and XLR, as you wish poverty on these workers I wish hardship on you. Just listening to your accepting BS make me sick and thats very very rare that something makes me actually feel sick - congrats. Theres not a job in America at 9.00 an hour worth keepin. Dont believe me try it. Only people that work for that much are in fast foods like school kids or grocery mart people, and few of them are actually at 9.00. A Walmart warehouse person is at 15+, Price chopper and Target even higher, store workers are lower. You guys act like each and every other American, is just like you and can do just what you do and wants to do just what you do, or they deserve poverty. You talk job competition but now you want to claim every American should do like you and get these so called skills and flood yet another job market that is in the process of moving abroad. I cant see how anyone thats all gumby spined and swallows that global economy crap can be that smart, so what ever these skills you all learned Im glad I skipped that class. We are only "global" because you all and the gov and their wealthy buddies say so. Thats all, just because you all say so. Like I said before, a Government decision one way that benefits half the population is one thing, but if it hurts, severely, the other half of the population, there is something greivously wrong. So now were at $18,720 gross per year. thats probably 12-14,000 through the door after April 15 now ya wanna take out 5000 just for health insurance and drop pension 13,720 div by 12 months 1143 per month Ive been above that for 2 decades. So your all OK with this ? Somewhere in this picture is those new economics I just cant see, right ? Your new economics gonna explain what ones supposed to do with 1100 a month in 2006. Really, I gotta tell you Im just totally ashamed that their is anyone in this country that would just sit back and say "thats OK" You must be some proud bunch, you want every highschool grad working for what people will work at in the third world. Is it that you really hate us because we didnt spend 2-6 years in college? You think we just spent 10-20-30 years working up, being better, learning, living better just to go back to page one like those minimum wage jobs we got our teeth broke on decades back ? I dont know what to think ? Some of your blow it off attitudes, just blow my mind. I'll soldier on, you gumbys just keep swayin in the wind. I've got way more pride and backbone than that. Your ideas will not work, it will throw the country into a further welfare state. We need good jobs for each and every American. Damn it !

Well I got news for you, theres no sence in saveing an American company if its not American. Whats the point ? At that time might just as well go buy a Toyota. General Motors or Ford will be nothing more than a faceless nameplate at that time. Today we can see the faces of our fellow American and Canadian workers.