razoredge

seems to be a discrepancy here " Where the similarities end is the "official" deletion of the two 389-425A Trophy powerplants. In their place were two regular-production 421 HO engines. The first was the single 4-barrel version, a 10.75:1 block that kicked out 353 hp at 5000 rpm and 455 lbs.-ft. of torque at 3400. The top street engine for 1963 was the 421 HO Tri-Power. With 370 hp at 5200 rpm and a whopping 460 lbs.-ft. of torque at 3800, there was little for a Tri-Power HO to fear on the street, especially if it ran the optional 4-speed and 3.42 gears. A 1963 Grand Prix so equipped for a Motor Trend road test clicked off a 0-to-60 time of 6.6 seconds and covered the quarter mile in 15.1 seconds at 94 mph. Very respectable for a car of that size and weight!" yep, very respectable but not "mid 12's" but the reality is " The powerplants for the '63 were similar to 1962, but some changes were made. The base engine was still the 303-horse 389, again with 3-speed, 4-speed, or automatic." This engine probably put it closer to the 0-60 in under 11 seconds like the Mark X or Caddy...........just guessing Ive looked into this 63 quite a bit now and it is a very nice car, not so crazy about 64 changes to the body

Its an orange Camaro SS from 67 or 68 with a hood scoop steelies and econo caps and black rocker panels who can tell us how many camshafts it has wore the lobes off ?

you off your medication lately ? haveing problems comprehending simple statements ? What lines are you reading between ? Is it because your eyes are crossed ? Whos on the wrong "enthousiasts" site ? You can dish it out but cant take it ?.........hell I didnt even dish it out, I just said topics on these cars make me cringe, I didnt give my opinions on the cars, no insult, nothing, just said they make me cringe............So when you get tired of bouncing off the walls at home, you come here and bounce off ours ? Must give your wife a welcome relief........................

In the early 70's when the cars were only 10 years old or less, the few kids I knew that got them had nothing but problems, they really had a lot of bugs. It was the car I wanted and first located but was talked out of it by many, many friends, adults and mechanics......................I never once heard anything refering to Ralph Nader until years later. There was other reasons, one of which was, any that were still around and for sale were some kinda sad. Oil all over the place, rust all over the place, brake problems, wireing problems, you name it. I bought an English sports car and had great fun and perfect reliability with rock solid chassis, handling and brakes. Great sheetmetal though, we can thank Bill Mitchell and crew for the second generation. My Corvette book has some interesting sketches of early Corvair ideas.

I guess I just came in too late. I actually liked what ever album Sandman and Nevermore was on. They were great years in my opinion for most all forms of metal. We had that record, Empire, Countdown to Ext, and around the same period, 5150, OU812, Gutter Ballet, Edge of Thorns, and Images and Words. For me, being older and actually missing the early years of most of these non commercial bands (not VH)...........I thought, wow these guys finally grew up and put some feeling and thought into the music. I know the guyd I was in the band with were younger and grew up on the older stuff said they all sold out, I just never got that, I thought they all finally grew up and were pulling from more real life experiences rather than the youthful, idealistic, testosterone driven stuff. I do understand that because Zeps early stuff, what I grew up on, was my favorite over the latter but I like all that too. Ill have to make note to get Metallicas early albums and do some studying. Also as much of a Queensryche fan that I am I still cant believe I dont have their most popular recording. I had it loaned to me and that was my intro to the band and it turned me immeadiatly...........yet I havent heard it since and have everything else they have done.................. Little by little my libary grows, kinda sad that its usually older bands.

yea Fly..........your a real idiot for finding any stimulation in this car. If only we lowlys would just learn our place and sit silently in the corner and watch the bad ass's run around pissing on everything. Oh look, my puddles bigger than yours is nah na na na nah na...................

Sylevestor and........XP ___ So whats the deal here guys. You dont want anyone comming here and posting topics about car you hate ? If they do your going to tear them apart and make them just hate being here. I mean you've done it to me before. What am I supposed to do...................go dig up my dead parents and smack their bones around for giving birth to someone with as poor of taste as myself ? what am I supposed to do..................join a Nova club...............then Ill be ........cool and fit in ? What the f@#k is your problems ? I cringe at ever Monty Carlo, Chevelle, Impala topic that pops up.............do you see me there telling everyone they are a piece of $h! ? I gave great evals of the situation here on behalf of all cars mentioned and it must be it got so hard to accept this Jaguar you resulted in stooping to complete insults, folklore and total disrespect. Yea you guys are a laugh a minute. Balth.........most of the above applies to you as well. So glad you can minimalize the short falls of American autos and make large of Europes. All items I pointed out are true and to the point and are very much design faults. Your response reads more like an advertising campainge than anything. I just try to rationalize differences..............that, once again I understand and accept........... I cant just keep going on and on with this, some short falls you will accept from American cars if you can rally an advertising campaigne around them and any little thing you can find with a European car you will carry on like the rags do with American cars.........................which are soon to be owned by Asia.................. and you still wont get it........................................ Glad you had fun

BOB.............where are you ? Did you make it to work today.......... Sylvestor - what are you even doing on this post ? This is getting very tireing, what the f@#k is the point in sticking your face into every post you can find regarding anything FWD just to start trouble. Is this some form of macho man ism, it sure reaks of it. Id be a bit ashamed myself, carrying on like that when your not even face to face. Is that how you treat people face to face ? If so how is it your still alive ? .............thats what I thought ! Theres this thing called respect, then theres this other thing called immaturity.................its your call. How in hell can you chomp on Satty and Croc or at least the former croc when you carry on even worse ? Time for some introspective I think. Your $h! stinks just as much an anyone elses but lately its started to ferment.....................so whats it gonna be ?

Wonder what happened to VW ? THe old Rabbit was bullit proof, hell it was mortor proof. Mercedes never impressed me sides for a few select SL's from way back. Today they have some interesting stuff but who wants to deal with it. You got to be rich. BMW's got the "Beamer" thing going on so bad its sickening. I'd be happy with a old 2002 when they were minimal and not yet "Beamers". The finest BMW ever was the 507 of the 50's

I didnt know all this soap opera stuff, Im not a huge fan but I like some of their music. Dont know why, I guess I just more favor the Maiden to Queensryche & Savatage to Megadeth approach better. Why did they have Jason in the band if they felt that way ? Sounds pretty stupid. Justice for All I believe I have and dont really like. Was that the Album they recorded in Woodstock ? They setup weird sound and acoustical barriers, I read something years ago about it. At that time Hetfields riffs were so chunchy and thick he was the sound, even the tonal range he used with the saturation would drown bass technology at that time, you can hear it on many albums of that style from that era, there is no room for bass it just gets covered up. I never understood Kirk either, hes one strange questionable guitarist in one of the most popular Metal bands..............strange ! I think Hetfield is the sound of Metalica and the rest are fillers that cant steal any spotlight, thats my take from a not so much of a fan. I like demented Dave better.

This is getting frustrating. The only photo of a whole back seat we have here is of the 3.8 Sedan, a cheaper, smaller car than the Mark X. No proof of any legroom issue in Mark X photos that do not show leg room..........nor center armrest. The door arm rest appears to be the same size, only the Jaguars is curved, does it matter?................not to me, the Caddys rear interior could just as well be some 50's Ford with assist grips from what I see. The seat bottom is not inviting at all, unless your under 5' tall and have dirty deeds with a short girl in mind. On the other hand the photo of the 3.8 Sedan just begs to be sat in. front seatback is 3 times thicker, means ? If thats 6" the Jag is only 2 ? If so important how come heavy truck seat backs are very thin and yet quite comfortable and designed for the long haul ? Same with sportscar seats, I surely hope you dont mean to imply that in this Caddy, ones back would sink in 3 inches ? I can tell by looking at them they are firm as hell. So yea Id say thats a real straw grab. One car has "hand grabs" and one has a crazy amount of Walnut trim and "table tops" a trade off ? I sure hope someone doesnt really have to use those seat backs to get in and out of that "luxury" car because if they do its not luxury but a rather poor ergonomically designed car. Perhaps the Jaguars easier to get in and out of ? Or is that early roll over protection ? This here ? - "Otherwise, no interiors are better than any others- just different." like many other comments..... always going to extremes and exagerations to minimalize of the fact that there is minimal difference and various tradeoffs on behalf of all. The Pontiacs interior is nice but its not a luxury car, its a version of an American sports car. At least its got full gauges...............down by the knees. Lots of plastic and stamped steel, then, the "must have" for "American muscle" the column mounted tac...............hey I dont mind, but I bet the Europeans find that tac......y. Then we know that shifter has a ? 10" throw ? Another no- no in the performance field, but that had been American tradition for decades, I accept it and understand how it fits the muscle theme of things, you really feel like your getting something done when you slamb that lever up and over with brut force. Still forgetting the poor location of the gauges and long throw shifter with its horrible leverage the long bend places on the linkage, its a very nice looking designed interior. Extra this and thats on the wheel and dash. More form over function that has a pleasent effect on the eyes...................kinda like many board feet of Walnut and vast yards of leather. Hey at least the keys in the right place. The engine, well we all know the score with Native Iron V8s, there they are and what they lack in dazzling brilliance they make up for in size and brute low RPM force. Then the engine is nearly at the axle center, another no no in the performance field but the Corvette did make up for this, so I really shouldnt pick on a car based on more conventional production design, I understand it and accept it, same with the engine. Where as the Jaguar engine was also designed to be jewel like as well as its performance aspects. Which incidently we all know the I6 was felt to be near bullit proof in its day, right ? Not like its more tedious younger V12 big brother, which frankly I dont know the real story behind. I suspect in many instances it was simply over the heads of your typical American iron greese monkey who did more harm to the engines than good by simply touching them.

Ive never had to destroy a boot and Ive had some high mileage 38's and I dont believe in changing plugs until I know I have a running problem which will usually rear its head in rainy humid conditions at cold starts. Which means I have usually 40,000 miles on them or more because who knows when previous owner changed them. Just simply twist side to side until the bond between the rubber and the plug pops. No need to get hostile with them and create more work than necessary. Good mechanics have finess, poor mechanics are brutal and do more harm than good. Same thing occurs with radiator/heater hoses as well as vacumn and low pressure fuel conections. Just like the ladies you got to tease them a bit first........... I always worry more about plugs not comming out easily and buggering up a thread. Hasnt happened yet but Ive had a few come out hard. I want photos..................

On what are you baseing this "horribly unreliable" on ?

Very nice Harley, and interesting reading, I always liked Corvairs. I could sit here and pick them apart for the this and thats but Id rather enjoy them for what they are and were. :AH-HA_wink:

Just grap it, and twist this a way and that a way. The heat shield is form fitting to the shape of the boot. After you get it off, slide the shield off and slide it onto the new wire.

your grasping at straws, one is not better than the other they are only different. The photos side by side speak a thousand words. The 3.8 Sedan was used if you read the text because I could not find a clear shot photo across the back seat of a Mark X. The first time I used the photo was in answer to Blus question about the styling approach. OK, so now we need to drop her down a knotch to Buicks level, lets see what I can find............... wow this is nice, kinda small photo, far better than the more traditional Cadillac 62 Wildcat 62 Electra Buicks are so nice, I never got the Cadillac thing, its always been like they were trapped in some type of "things must be this way or its not a Cadillac".....hmm sounds fimiliar. no expensive wood, lots of plastic and steel, no full leather but very modern for that time and in fact Id take either these Buicks or the Jaguars interior design over many of todays cars. Not all but many. But that Caddy........aint for me.

Sounds like your saying you cant pull the wires off the plugs. The rubber is just set to the plug. Twist one way and then the other until they let loose. Then they will pull off, somewhat hard but they will come. Grab right ahold of the boot, heatshield and all. Watch your knuckles, finess is always better than brut force.

Yea, but not the details, then I think I get a few mixed up. Wasnt there a Lawyer in NYcity or somewhere here on the east coast that brutally killed his daughter that largely started alot of this child pertection services ? I think I get these two confused because until you said Colorado I thought I was on the right page. This Jon Benet was the little girl that had some singing talent or something right ?

No the 80's were Buicks time.......... Old BMW's do sound like popcorn popers, old import automatics were always choppy, quit making excuses, I got a silky smooth 86 LeSabre Limited with 150,000 mile on all origional drivetrain parts. The old off center V6 shakes at idle but its quite, not rattly. I like German cars but they are what they are............potential tired iron, just like the rest, nothing more, nothing less.

heartbreaking alright............ you'll get covered but with the steep depreciation that cars take immeadiatly. Probably wont cover all remaining payments. Then no matter what you insure you will probably feel sick at your next insurance quote. My company Erie, has first accident forgiveness, not sure how they would react to a total on a new car. I really hope you get back around to and then beyond this as soon as possible, its gotta hurt bad. and yes, no photos, that would be sick.

yea, the other hot topics about gayisms, toyotas suck, Josh jokes and the likes have always been of more intellectual value and interest. This is the best topic you ever started as far as Im concerned..........................and Im going to end it too................. In proper British fashion, Ill never surrender but stand and hold my ground or die on it !

OK lets recap, this is how I know you dont really let much sink in, this is a "3.8 Sedan", a lower budget Jaguar, I posted this photo on page one. I see Fly is starting to edit, maybe the photos are taking to much but once again this is from 61 - ?? 67 ?? where it was replaced by a .........you guessed it, very similar looking car. Yes same engine, all cars, same engine, different tune for the E types. 3.8 DOHC, larger 4.2 and smaller 3.4 (used in the ....you guessed it 3.4 Sedan) This must be the grill/front that the one more modern models went retro on. So I guess you could say if the Mark X was the Electra the 3.8 Sedan was the LeSabre and the 3.4 was the Skylark. Also remember Jaguar was marketed as "affordable luxury" so was more like the Buick or Oldsmobile and the Bentleys and Rolls more like the Cadillac or Lincoln or Imperial.........but must I remind you.............from a different country, with different preferences, taste, ideals and traditions

The standard of the world and I grew up here......................

Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well now I read the rest of todays ramblings and engineering wanna bees and all I can say is your all prejudice...................MORONs........ [said in jest, but to make a point as well] All except Camino and Blu who seem to have some understanding of tradition, cultural and economical lack of technical advancements within their own countries that were no way in hell playing on a level field with war prosperious and war technology advanced America. I mean America was up and ready to go with lots of learned tec and enlarged factories properous from lots of gov $ and a vast supply of work hungry war vets and by gosh the future was bright. In Europe they were all doing the "I think I can, I think I can"............... How dense can one man be. But there just isnt any sence in repeating that over and over because Balth just doesnt give a $h!, he only likes the big three and that is the end of it, all others suck, he dont give a damn if they were companies 1/10 the size, building cars by hand, factory totaled out in a 1958 fire....... nothing. I wont bother trying to explain that that my be a large part of the reason the Mark IX seems fimiliar...........cause none of that counts to old Balth............if you dont have the stainless & tecnology to stamp out thousands of Caddy dashes in an hour and would rather instead craft this Mark X dash from solid Walnut..................your just way out of touch with "modernization".................and have nothing to offer the "luxury" market...........only the pretend to be's............... And BTFinW what the f@#k is with this "painted wood" bull$h!.............this aint GM, you would be laughed right out of Europe if you released a "luxury car" back at this time with "painted wood"...............geeze, just grow up already, each and every piece of that is solid wood. Wow............... Sylvester having grown up somewhat................in a part of the world that never even got over the real war............... WWII........ should be far less ignorant but perhaps hes forgotten from where he came ? Now lets once again forget all those manufacturing concerns that confronted, England, Germany, Italy and France. Just forget all that because to old Balth thats just making excuses for.............showing rubber France never recovered, gone were Bugatti, Ballot, Delage and Delahaye, all they seemed to scrap up was a Citroen that looked a bit like a VW. But never mind all that, just forget it................in Englands case what about all that stiff upper lip, proper "pride". I cant explain it, dont completely understand it, I have a bit of an idea, being more tied to the past than the future.............a quality that has never appeared in Old Balths character............ . Lets just take a look at the rubber issue. My 64 Alpine, a car I owned just to prove my " sedomasichist" nature. That Sunbeam (64) had a windshield that was completely trimed in stamped Stainless..........however there was a thick rubber gasket between the glass and the stainless as well as between the frame and the car body, the molding was somewhat sculped for lack of a better word so there was some attention to detail and there was nothing cheap going on either, in fact maybe they felt the "Domestics" skimped on the rubber? Now go back 2 years to a 62 I parted out............it had frame trim that was chromed, it was heavier material than sheet, maybe more like bumper thickness. I cant say now, its been gone for years so I cant go and check but it was of entirely different construction methods, I remember making note of that way back. This tell me a few things, their tecnology was in change around this period. They also liked to see a stout gasket with a certain amount of craftmanship or design applied to it. Now this was a cheap Brit sportscar with chrome or stainless and yet the luxury Jaguar has nothing but rubber and steel wheels, where the XKE has similar attributes to trim detail as my Alpine but has expensive chrome spoke knockoffs..............could it just be that this underworked area of the car was "proper" ? Take a look at old Bentleys, very little fancy trim, perhaps this was thought to be boyish and for the sportscar crowd ? Look at Bentleys and Rolls into the 70's........80's even, still very understated in these areas, and still very old school styling traditions. There has to be something behind it, like it or not, because the Brits obviously showed some glitter on their sportscars. Or did the "proper" Brits lead the way for the "blackout trim" that became so "proper" to be a cool car in America 30 years later................... No wait................. " Is this conjecture or fact and how would you prove it? "....................... As for the BMW thing, I like them just as well, but they have been a different kind of car until more recently. Older interiors were not even trying to be luxury. Its just a different kind of car, and one just cant deny German engineering intelligence. Still none the less they too were bound and determined to stick to the program and make sure a BMW still looked like a BMW. A Porsche like a Porsche and a Mercedes like a Mercedes. Well that just dont cut it with Old Balth......... gowl dang them old world people anyhow.................bastids ! Sylvestor, once again your ignorance shines through, the GT40 was designed and engineered in Fords FAV Ltd. in Slough Bucks............wherever that is, somewhere England. Because they could not compete with Ferrari, litre for litre, they were then brought to Shelby for the H U G E shoehorn and other necessary beef ups to endure such massiveness. They then had great success but did not "destroy" the smaller Ferraris, they simply won more races but not all of them............OK ? And their day was over when the put a stop to the H U G E displacement, and made it so manufacturers had to put some thought into getting more power not just more iron. As we know Porsche won that battle. I could go on and on and on fighting ignorance but thats in itself is ignorant because ignorance.................is what it is and those that are............are what they are............for good reason...............they are ignorant and well steeped in that tradition. 1963 Bentley S III Continental OH my GAWD ! Its like.............like................like a 32 Ford

Hello ! NOOOOOOOOOO!! I pointed it out and once again just because you cant seem to absorb any text...............this photo is from the 3.8 sedan as in.......... say the Skylark rather than the Electra...........can you understand that ???????????????