razoredge

yea, what a novel idea......something GM's OHV engines have always had it is good to see DOHC finally comming around, about time. To bad they need low finals and extre gears to prove it............

So whats an X5 ? L67 "rips to redline" quick too, am I supposed to be impressed, hell the 3900 rips to redline quick in 1st and 2nd. Didnt know a "Silverado" was supposed to even keep up with what Im assuming is a performance car.............imagine that ! Ive been crying for small displacement DOHC V8 engines for GMs for quite some time now. Then I'll never have to hear about V6 this and thats again. Funny how an expert like yourself never chimed in ? Well, I suppose my lack of popularity forbids............ Is the "absolute powerhouse off the line" one of those low final drive ratio, close ratio multi speed tranny cars ? If Im not mistaken that would actually prove my point, they kinda need this extra edge, Anyone that pays attention will alway notice a low final ratio on the OHC engines compared to the OHV engines.........you'll never hear them refer to it however. I am glad to see DOHC is finally getting more comparable mileage these days...HP/gallon ratio, if positive, negates lower final drive ratio needed to get performance out of DOHC engines. Efficiency is all that matters in this department. Mercedes very own press release on their 7 speed clearly stated that no mileage increases were noticed and a very minimal increase in acceleration. They pressed smoothness of shifts due to closer ratios are the real benefit. I so wish I had put that in a file because Ill be damned if I can find it now. Balthazar is absolutely correct about many 6 speeds only being two overdrives leaving 6th as something you'll only use on interstates at higher speed. That is still a positive as so many suburbanites & rurals working in downtowns do travel as certain amount of interstate each and every work day. I know our G6 rarely sees 6th but thats hilly rural driving. Im not against the 6 speed, I am against all the negitives about the 4 like its a problem when we clearly know it is not. An 8 speed is what I drive day in and day out and sometimes I so wish I had an Allison automatic like the Concrete trucks use. 8 speed on a car is just overkill, these extra gears have got to add weight and manufacturering expence. Its just so unfortunant that this "more gear ratios" race had to begin. Seems like theres better fish to fry and GM engineering and plant tooling does not need more distractions.

yea, the Buickman, "hero" and "profit" justs kills someones credibility, that will only learn someone disrespect, its not humble I believe he does have a few points. I believe they are sabatoging Buick by simply ignoring them. Maybe this Enclave proves otherwise but its another friggin Suv, so I have a hard time believeing it will have any effect on Buicks overall sales compared to 5 or 6 years ago when they still had models I find it hard to believe in Wagoner, I still cant get over the huge bonus he got for..?.. 03 was it ? Hes made too many mistakes. I cant put him on the pedistal you guys do. He does deserve a bit of credit for his purchase of 1 million shares.....was it ? Still with the kind of money these types have, we could call that stupid money. Doesnt matter if it wins or looses, theres millions behind it. Better people have lost a larger percentage in the past 7 years. I find it hard to believe in Lutz. The new "turn around" product is not that great. Many things have been let go. Other things are nitch. He's/they are focusing on saturin and thats not General Motors to me, thats not why Im here. Sure maybe you have some youngsters here that get all googoo gaga over this supposed "new" General Motors product. To me saturin means less than Toyota, I had one Toyota truck, well known to be one of the best trucks ever built. Toyotas are made here in the US, then what do I care about saturin ? Its made in the US and is responsible for so much misallocated funding to the divisions for which I am a General Motors owner and fan ? Ive also read way to many statements made by Lutz that seemed like maybe he didnt get a good enough nights sleep or is 20 years over due for retirement. You all, try to make him out like the modern day Harley Earl or Bill Mitchell, if so these are sad times indeed. Heres a few "let goes" I can think of off the top of my head from MY experience, not some magazine article Im repeating like some robot 1. He let the console & cupholders & steering wheel go in the G6 2. The G6 has poorly laid out drivers, driving ergonomics, I aint talking about radio controls 3. The 3900 is laughable compared to the SC3800 and questionable against the NA3800 4. We have "fly by wire" throttle blade control which is a huge joke. Are you all into hesitation ? Dont believe me ? Go check it out ! 5. We have some troublesome electronic steering, sorry I know little about it. GTP comes with NORMAL steering and I would have passed otherwise. I was not impressed with the GT I drove nor its 3500. 6. Malibu is a freekish looking thing 7. Aveo is a freekish looking thing 8. GTO was 7 year dated styling, when GM was already taking a bashing for dated unispireing styling 9. Rear panel on GP reskin was not worthy of the car......let go 10. Interior on GP was not worthy of the car......let go 11. Remove Bonneville & Sunfire leaving Pontiac hanging 12. Introduce Lucerne and aura........a new, yet old 01 Aurora 13. Reskin the Buick W body but leave the 12 year tired oval grill on it 14. Some of the boringest tailights for modern times on the Lucerne 15. Square cornered "somethings wrong" interiors in the Cadillacs 16. Leaves the cheezy little duck tail lip on the trunk of the G6 and put it on the GP in the first place 17. Cobalt doing well, but one generation behind in styling compared to Civic/Acura, Mazda 18. Remove LeSabre and Park Avenue and replace with one car I had to start thinking so Ill stop there, I know theres more. Notice, I did not get into the softie plastics and pushrod engine/not enough tranny gears like everyone else does. I let that stuff go because I do believe that is frivolous compared to these styling and divisional management oversites and they are under Lutz in his supposed field of income and purpose. NO IM not a Buickman FOLLOWER ! I am a independant thinker, even uninspired by the rest of you. These are the things I see. I spent an insane amount of time on GM parking lots this summer. So while you all disgust with Buickmans arrogance, I disgust with your beliefs that Lutz and Wagoner are "saviors" or "profits" or "heros". They better start paying attention and hunt down some design staff that truely have new leading edge, noncheezy ideas.........immeadiatly ! Dont give me the "stop gap" story either. Lacrosse was new sheet metal, GP was new sheet metal, G6 trunk was new sheet metal, Cobalt was new sheetmetal, Malibu was new sheetmetal, Lucerne was new sheetmetal, G6 console was new console, ect, ect, ect. The work was done brand new but things were let go or came out behind the times ! Who was paying attention ? Who got credit for exciting new product ? Whats with the Potbelly Pig look of these new Blazer type things Im seeing ? The jury is still behind closed doors and the clock is ticking, we are waiting watching and trying to be positive but then take a close look and say... What ? Whos running this show ? Then after/if they get this crap straightened out they have to deal with the American attitude and "global economy" I have already beat to death. "beat to death" I only wish !

Are you sure ? Damn, I cant believe that. They will probably have it later on, after the fact. Must be some stupid Nascar race taking precidence ? They have aired the Cup races but they are usually dated, with the Rolex cup airing live. I figured they would follow this 6 hour final, its a big deal for the GA cup. Anyhow about the Cobalt, and Im not trying to take its wind. I rally for them and everyone knows it. However they are close for manufacturers due to the volumn of Cobalts participating compared to Acuras and BMWs. However the teams or individual cars themselves are in 5th 7th and 11th or something like that. They have a hard points gap to fill to beat the Acura team for 2nd and even more to beat the BMW team for 1st. They did great at beginning of season but just had three very bad finishes in a row that really put them back.........to 5th, 7th, ect. Still and all that Cobalt is one quick car and the FWD Acuras and Cobalts are making the 330i's work for their "ultimate" title.

I thought more about this today, with it bothering me and all about bashing your vocal approach. I just never liked that stuff nor do I get it. Now take, say, Dave Mustane or Jon Oliva, they can get the sick and twisted stuff off, really hard and heavy but put some effort into clarity, tone, rhythm, tact and, over the years came up with some real grabbing sound. This I can enjoy to extremes. With "hardcore" the first thing that hit me was, "when you have a rabid dog, the first thing you do is shoot it" "why do these guys want to sound like rabid dogs?" Hey ! I think Im onto something..........a new band name perhaps ? Viper - thanks, that is exactly what my daughter said last night when she got home. So I guess Ill never get a chance to see what you and you guitar & bassist are tryin to lay down. I did get a bit of interesting cymbal action. You three are talented and def have skills, not bad for quality either. How much per hour was that ? What city ? My old band did 2 songs, eight track live recordings about 15 years ago, we just dubbed the solos and vocals. Seems like that was 75 per hour. Then a friend bought an 8 track and I have 2 songs myself and my "boy" Todd wrote, recorded in just guitar, bass & vocals. "Time Heals/Time Steals" and "The Tower". Prog metal. This guy Todd was deeply into concept albums, like the whole thing is a story or say Opera, I was always into that stuff too, so we worked well together. We had a total of nearly 60 minutes worth worked out. "Port of Dawn" is what he called it. We had pretty good ideas but dated for early 90's when metal was dying and grunge taking over. Problem was we could never pull off the performance, always mistakes, sloppy, poor sound. Playing at the edge of our abilities all the time, made us better but we just werent solid/consistantly, mediocre equipment, ect. Great years though........ I wish you guys the best of luck, I know your having fun and I'm jelous (but shoot those dogs, would ya............. )

Im not totally impressed with 3900 performance. In the 60+ passing mode I dont see an engine that takes its job seriously. Perhaps Im too used to 3800's that kick down into 2nd in this 55+ range and get down to business. Myself Im only seeing the better stats on paper. Yea, ours goes like a raped ape from 0-60 with the low ratio finals and close ratio 1st & 2nd of 6 sp standard but after that its just not the killer I was expecting. Put it up against the supercharged 3800 and forget about it for passing. Maybe 0-60 but def not 60-90 and beyond. Mileage on the other hand is 1 or 2 MPG better than 3800 average. I find it to be a quiet engine at any driving level, in fact it doesnt bark enough a WOT. It has a strange shudder at idle but I dont get worked up over this, Im sure its not good for conquest sales however.

No, sorry Dude, you aint the one either, you have a few good points but they aint the answer, Lutz aint the answer, Wagner aint the answer, Goshen aint the answer, softie touchy plastic aint the answer, high output high value DOHC engines aint the answer, no bench seats aint the answer, heated washer fluid aint the answer, 8 speed trannys aint the answer, mutiple airbags aint the answer, by wire this and that aint the answer Americans not growing a brain aint the answer either So lets all just kick back and for the new world order

I dont think toyoguy is that far off, I believe most GM product is still one step behind. I believe GM styling is def. one step behind. Solstice is an exception unless you compare to say the Elise. C6 could be considered a styling exception but it is actually only an answer to some of what we've already seen comming out of Europe for a long time. I think GM needs to fire its styling staff. Earls and Mitchells, they are not, by any streach. This is the Lutz department so Im not getting it. Lutz/Wagner the savior ? Compared to what ? Results are still pending As for sales incentives, Id say the 0% for five days was a biggy. Especially considering cars were rotting on the lots prior, then immeadiatly after they returned to ghost town status. Now the past month has been dealer sales to rid remaining 06 inventory, and thats around here, an area that has not been totally alergic to domestic automobiles. Ive already seen more new Camrys than Lacrosse/Lucerne combined 2 year spottings or has Lacrosse been three already ? Now Impala and GP is another story, lots of them, but I figure within a year they will be outnumbered by new Camry. If one could deal with the interior, and never have to approach it from the rear, the GP is a hell of a deal these days.......... Everyones waiting for a hero........except those already buying Asian cars. Its highly possible no formula will work, for American industry......... in the "global world" So lets just throw her in 9th gear and race......straight to the bottom...........

So whats a Doc make a year ? 140,000 doesnt sound like much then does it ? anyhow That was not a very focused interpretation of my views. Why are you implying that I feel everyone should just get a job ? I believe my point has been to show that we too are a very important cog that has, in the past 20 years, especially 10 years been getting pushed into the gutter because of the inflation created by what some percentage can afford. We are either at a standstill or worse yet, taking heavy hits............most people here seem to applaud that..........."oh yea, take that, there have another, oh yea, how'd ya like that?"Most are young and starting out so its understandable, yet I offer a different view to at least look at. So not only are we suffering from this new ecomony pressed on lesser Americans we are being shunned for our contribution at the same time. Thats why I like to poke a bit, maybe someone gets a bit bent about it, and thinks a bit. The thing is you can walk away and never feel a thing, it will be a faint memory of a bad discussion, gone in 15 minutes. For others it is the reality of the rest of our lives, a huge wall that has been built in the past 10-20 years that will never be torn down. I bought my house in 93 ? Its not much, so I paid it off in 8 years and that was before my lively hood evaporated, I actually thought I had a bright future, all was grand, we were moving forward. However today I could not ever buy a house, not even this dump. Everyone is baffeled as to how they are going to pay their accessed tax's when they are no longer working. Every year for the past 7 years, my wifes pay raise has been immeadiatly claimed by her health insurance provider. Now add, oil/gas, auto insurance, property/school tax increases and all other products and what the heck is going on ? Then theres this other world out there where pay increases are large and these are not problems and perhaps even make advancement, as it should be. I'd never deny anyone fair advancement. Thats a right reserved for the "haves" The "chip on the shoulder", "class envy", "have vs havenots" thing is overplayed. Another blanket statement meant to stiffel anyone thats willing to stand up and say WTF is going on here ? The haves and havenots is actually played the hardest by the haves anyhow. Its well known that this recent new economic change has created great wealth at the expence of the greater population. Its well known that at this time in this countries history the scales are radically out of balance. Its well known that the loss of good substancial jobs far excedes the "replacement" jobs at the same time that the country is at a record high wealth. Well, where did that wealth come from..............selling off America, bailing on invested retirement obligations, health care obligations, many sorts of other scams. Its all made look pretty by creating this extended debt/credit. Few working class are worth anything, its all debt, but looks good from the street. Then you get everyone to work a week and a halfs labor per week and they think that weekly paycheck is special, never stopping to realize its a week and a halfs pay, a half a week you will never get back in your life. Half a year you should have been with your family, doing things, projects, goofing off, laughing, socializing.....nope, sorry, no can do buddy So no, I cant have sympathy for a college debt, I cant applaud greater wealth when success is denied or even stolen from others that do and have towed the line. I dont think college is easy, thats why I didnt go, I could have never handled it, too slow, no results, to much unapplied information, baffling boredom, a word I hate to use but thats what "education" did to me, snooze, unstimulating. Im sure other have this problem, we deserve to be thrown into the dungeons, right ? No not at all, we have a great purpose, to make others wealthy..........Now were back finally back to that "take 50%" and spread it around to the productives......... Would it be a better world ? Yes I think so. Otherwise man would have never invented the balance scale in the first place.

Ironic but teehee haha funny just the same. Actually the paper industry is doing great.............in South America. As for knowing the car business, I'd say that puts me in the same boat as the idiots that have been running GM, only my boat aint got all that money in it. "Mega" business only caters to the handful that have great profit margins from it..........what more do I need to learn ? Wonder how much GM spent tearing down Buick City ? One platform ? Two platforms ?

Cool ! I was never into thrash however, not enough emotion or feel. I love that chromatic part once it settles down. The vocalist(s), which is a streach, sucks. I suppose it does come from vocal cords so it could be termed vocalist. Its pointless talentless garbage, not sure theres a legitmate reason to sound like your homocidally pissed off all the time, unless its because you cant sing and figure this way no one will figure it out.............. the guitar and druming sounded tight for what I heard, but I need so help here cause Im computer challenged. How do I get full song. It came to me in 3 second bits followed by 10 second delays, then I couldnt figure out how to get it all at once. Then I can get a better feel for the music..........though it will be hard to focus past the pissed off idiot(s) in the forefront. Sorry for being hard on your friend(s) but they really do suck, the rest of you could probably get somewhere with a real vocalist thrash or not. There no identity with so many bands "vocalist" applying that same har arg har arg sound.

It dates back to 84 but my used 84 D50 Mitsubichi/Dodge was one of the best trucks I ever had. 100,000 trouble free miles, excluding 3 fuel pumps, 2 of which were aftermarket. Even my used 81 Toyota which followed it was only drivin 80,000 miles. Both great trucks, very hard worked with some tuff roads as well. and it was a HEMI +1........with a 5 sp +1........ and bucket seats with floor shifter +2........... prolly had hard plastic though -200.... Ive never though badly of Mitsubichi, Isuzu on the other hand makes me think of the Luv truck, which was laughable by Toyota, Mitsubichi, Datson, and Mazda standards. Im sure much has changed since then though for better or worse. So maybe it is like the blind following the deaf

Whats an X5 & S500, I assume an S500 is Mercedes or is it a sound alike Lexus ? ? If so its a big engine..........no ? even so I bet they have nothing at 1200. In normal driving our 3800's never excede 2000-2200 rpm. Our 3900 with the 6stick I usually shift at 3000 and yes, that engine is not impressive, even above 3000 but hey, at least they got rid of the 3800 and added a 6 speed..............right ? And by the way the lb ft means little if HP doesnt come on until 4000+-. Power curves are more than numbers, they are ranges and big numbers at one end mean little, unless your running laps at the track, or an auto magazine writer trying to impress your cronin. Fortunantly people on the roadway system do not drive like this.

now take 50% of the wealthiest Americans money aways from them...........still leaving them filthy stinking rich and apply that back to the workforce that got the job done and tell me all about this new world yet once again...... The plumbers, electrcians, carpenters, steel workers (like to see a college grad do that one.........go work some steel fellas) operators, ect. ect. ect. are only making damn sure they live in a somewhat level playing field with the oppressive organization of the insurance industry, Doctors, Lawyers, publicly paid "law makers", publicly paid educational "experts?" and publicly paid governmental hourly workers (fed, state, local employees) whos future is guaranteed, sheltered and blanketed. Even then that level playing field is always an uphill pull with insecure future for anyone falling into the lowly catagory. Im sure many office workers land in this department too, uinfortunantly their too busy being wanna be at the tops and loathing the dirty, greasy blue coller workers to realize they are actually rowing the same ship, that just keeps the rich getting richer.

GM is one big soap opera, anyone that hangs around C&G has surely seen enough evidence of that. Final year sales totals will have to do. Im anxious now to know how this year has been going. I for one dont believe it has gone well at all. I nearly agree with this artical. I dont however at this time believe in blaming Lutz, Wagner, or LeNave ( I need to learn how his name is spelled) They could have done better thats for sure but America is the problem, they just arent going to change their car buying outlook, especially when its so well known that "The Big Three" are in trouble. That just a huge red flag right there. Then if thats not bad enough, the imports trump them on every detail, we have all seen that here. More gears for the tranny, too late, such and such just produced one that has one more. Nice new hightec V6.........too late, everybody else just released one that has more HP/more torque/better milage better interiors...........too late, everybody else just added newer more softie touch plastic down by the toe area new styling..........too late, its dated now, everybody else has moved on better warranty...........too late, such and such has always had one that good and better and sells their cars for less new commercials..........too late, and far to craptastic for any customer to get past the "now selling for less.........." at the end Im telling you guys, the Asian automachine is on a roll, in deep wet snow, and its growing so fast, nothing is going to stop it..........."in a free market"......."global economy". Money makes money and the Asians have it and the Americans do not. Spin it all you want, talk about 20 % with profit is better than 24 without. Then next year talk about 18% with profit is better than 20 without. Picture that old commercial, I forget what it was for, but it was a city and the streets were empty........thats your local GM dealerships customer parking lot. Now drive past or go to a Toyota dealership and see the action, go to a Hyundia dealership and see the action, go to a Honda dealership and see the action, now go to another GM dealership of you choise and tell me whats going on.............. Its the American attitude, we see it all the time here on this forum. Whether its the crying about items not being as special as _ _ _ _'s. Or who gives a crap about American manufactureing jobs or whatever topic pops up. Just check out the basic American attitude about its manufactures or workforce. We'd rather be politically correct and embrace immigrants, foreign cultures, our own slacker government, our own greedy healthcare system and any other number of problems than embrace our own people, our own culture, our own history, our own manufactureing base and so many other things Americana. Now just go ahead and tell me Im wrong...........then just sit back with your complacent attitude about the condition of America and watch it all happen..........because you are too selfish and lazy to stand up for your own brothers and sisters and make a change in attitude. Sound off topic, sound like a tangent? Is it really ? Look at the big picture

More impressive than an F1 ? really ? Cooler than a Veyron ? really ? A garage full of Ferraris =walmart parking lot ? lets just rename you "streach" As for the Caddy , a V16 today might not be worth developing when returns are needed. Still as I have always said, GM should build these concepts in limited volumn, superb special quality and sell in the hundreds of thousands of dollars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, and others do. It would greatly improve GM's visibility as well as technology. It would also return money currently wasted on all their coulda, shoulda, wouldas but didnts. If Ferrari could build and support champion race cars & teams, and very advanced technology all these years doing this theres got to be money in it.

your fighten little battles V8 dont need 6sp 6sp is simply 2 more, great accomplishment when you learning to count 1% of the time, you might see someone in a back seat 3.6 & 6 sp is reserved for Caddy, select Pontiac and saturin at this time........read my scenario at the bottom of my post and see if it sinks in. Im sure C&D has found many cars to have many faults, "road became less than perfect" wow, whats that ? So first its, why bother its one more year, then its lets put more effort and spend more money. The W body engine frame will not be made to accept the new tranny, that is a "why bother". Just a tid for those that learned two new numbers and cling to that knowledge with a death defying grip.

That college means nothing to me, sorry. To many act like we walk out of highschool and never again learn a thing because we didnt pay some professor and his favorite book to teach us. We endure another type of learned hardship, we only wish we could claim we have huge depts to pay off, it seems we spend the rest of our lives paying some debt we cant put a finger on. Also knowing the math, I believe a few years on market take care of that education quickly, same for the overhead. The Doctors insurance issues have also been created by the very same healthcare industry, the other "highly educated" ball assed, cant make enough money to pay for my special ed "Law.....yers" and the Doctors own failure to focus on their job and not make mistakes. Lets face it, I have yet to see a Doctor really dedicate. Everything is at arms lenght including their effort. Its all about the money, just like every other industry. At one time it was not this way. Tecs dont make 40 per hour, that 60+- per hour goes to over head, insurance/insurance/insurance, profits for business owners, tool updates, further continued education, commercial property tax's and probably a few things I cant think of. Long ways from 18-21 hard earned dollars per hour to $1000 for changing rubber bands, prescribing medication, and sticking a paint stir, say "ah" in someone mouth. The healthcare issue is grand, above and beyond the Doctors, all aspects of it need to be addressed. The primary issue being greed, which leads to the secondary issue, abuse.

Lacrosse going to Epilson ? Better buy your Lacrosse now if you want a nice comfortable, excellent riding, great handling car by the name of Lacrosse. What I cant see is the energy you guys are putting into crying over Buick, when at least they are putting some effort into a car while its still on the market. Rather than just one more year of the same old car they are going to give it some more character. Ill look forward to seeing a new facia on the Lacrosse while it transitions into the next model. Most of we GM people that have been around awhile have made many comments about how GM used to at least change facia once every 2 years if nothing else. Perhaps you could try to look at this as a sign that they are going to put continued effort into a model, rather than riding it out to th end. The V8 is plug and play, the entire drivetrain, engine frame, wiring harness and PCM is ready willing and able to bolt into the bottom of the car, so what the hell are you crying about ? I realize some think it would be better to just let Buick lay around and rot while they are waiting for the rest of their spoiled siblings to get done with dinner. I for one am glad to hear that mother is at least throwing them some scraps while they stand there, stomach growling, waiting for a chance to sit down and be fed. So whos V6 was it that kept GM cars in sales all those years ? "Oh, yea, we remember you..........here.........we trimed this of the slab of beef the rest are chowing down............catch ! " "Hey ! Dont give them that, let them sit there and wait !"

I think all that everyone has said regarding the pros of this chassis could have easily been said by anyone. I believe a few of us arent into repeating obvious lines, using word and phrases like "global" and "good for GM" twice in every sentence. Spreading the frosting is easy, making it takes a bit of time. I have never seen Blu put any kind of effort like I saw here on any topic. His concernes are spot on. GTO had a dated look when it arrived, no one bashed it that I ever saw, it simply does not take ones breath away. Frankly I dont believe it would have in 95/96 either. I have stood by them and stared at them, over and over and I have to walk away thinking, its just not striking, doesnt stir the soul. There is nothing wrong with any N American pleading for different sheetmetal on a Pontiac or Buick built on this chassis. That is "sensible thinking" ! For all those bashing the G6, Bonneville and GrandPrix thanks for spreading your opinions as fact.............(enzl). Bashing them and not getting the GTO/Commodore concern speaks volumns on your behalf. Those falling back on the good old "boomers reliving their muscle cars days" need to pay a bit more attention while reading, no where here, did anyone mention "retro", we only indicated a level of styling that was lost here in America for the most part decades ago. Anyone that doesnt get the American job issues I so strongly promote...........to bad for you, once again it speaks volumns for your criteria and selfish interests

<chuckle> well with the THM and torque converters with lockup and engines that actually had torque in normal driving RPM range, 4sp always worked really great. Now take your narrow band weezy lathagric DOHC's, I guess you would really need a few extra gears to keep it up around 4000 for climbing hills and whatnot. GM has had the best automatics on the market forever, they just didnt have enough glitter, because they didnt need it. Cant complain about them spending the money on a must have tranny though, its not like they have any better places to spend it......................... It will actually be a good thing for little four cylinder fuel economy cars with the ever increasing load your average car has become. Wonder how much longer before we hit the 5000 lb mark again? Then well need 13 speeds and 6 valves per cylinder No ! Its a measuring contest for Dicks............... <chuckle>

OK Cort, theres no need for this conversation. This is what I said It had nothing to do with people that are really sick. Back in 70 the doctors made a great fortune removing my mothers brain tumor, then she died. At least some good came from it ey ? My Grandmothers doctors had her on enough medication to float the Titanic back to the surface.....for decades ! Her blood was so screwed up she could no longer heal from simple cuts, scratches or bruises. So they sold her more pills. My wifes sister was misdiagnosed and treated for something she did not have, the treatment compounded the illness, she eventually died, family deeply in debt, her husband will never be free of the debt. Thats just a few instances from within family. Think of the percentages As for the insurance companies cutting the amount they are willing to pay for a service. I have seen that on bills for Mother and our daughter, I absolutely love it. There should be more of that today. Thats how it works for us. "this is what you are going to do and this is how much we are going to pay you"...........there Doctors, welcome to the real world. You all make it sound so intensely worse than it actually is. Its more like they try to charge $180 for 5 minutes of their time and the insurance companies say......"No.....well pay you $120 for 5 minutes of your time". I paid to get a DOT interstate physical, it was $120 dollars for a 5 minute checkup and answer a few questions. Here another good one........required sports physicals...........When I was young, our school used to have the local Doctor come in and we'd all get our physicals, piece of cake............done. We'll we all know today schools just cant get their hands on enough money regardless of how many millions they collect. So its up to the parents. Cha/ching "$125 please" in and out in 5 minutes...........well thats the doctor, of course you have to sit there 45 minutes because business is booming and they over schedule. cha/ching, cha/ching, cha/ching Now how about the othordontist, I paid for ne of them, for a while, what a racket those quacks got going, I estimated $1000 per hour 5 years ago. Today I hear braces are closer to the 5 grand than the 35 hundred I was supposed to pay..........over two years.............for something that was fixed in one............. Well, my daughter has excellent teeth and I got DR. Ortho out of his strenuous labor half a year earlier than planed and I saved a $800. I could see all the effort he was putting into her teeth (which had been perfect for 6 months by that time) was really stressing him out....................... Now wanna get into the employment medical services that have poped up everywhere ? Big business........that ! Ive built houses in Doctor/hospitol neighborhoods..............sorry, they'll not get symphathy from me. Nor will the poor impoverished insurance people. Healthcare giant should read Healthcare Pigs

now this is some stupid f'in thread "ah gee boss, you want I should f'in break his f'in knees?" "naw, we'll just put his f'in head down by the f'in tires and f'in smoke em till his f'in hair falls out" "gee boss, you always did know how to have a f'in good f'in time" "shut the f up you f'in moron" "ah gee, sorry boss"

The 3.0's were based on the 3.8's same bore just a short stroke. So the stage 3.0s were also short stroke 3.8's. Dont know much more than that. There was a few changes and variations to the stage engines.

Ah, yea, that what I though, nothing, still waiting, anyday now.