razoredge

Thanks for the responce and time put into it. My point was these were all mistakes made under Lutz supervision. If he did not have enough time to supervise this handful of projects in the 4 years they took to get here and make sure they were right.......hes far from the answer to GM's design problems. 3900 is the new OHV V6 hope for GM and it is the OHV engine that replaced the 3800 regardless of what models it is put in. The 38 stayed around so long because they simply could never come up with anything better......this 3900 was supposed to be it. go out and crack the throttle in your car and listen to the engine pick up one second later. My point was not that there is a serious problem with it, its the fact that they spent all this time and money on such an unnecessary item when so many more important things needed to be done. I was not refering to Sunfire...the car, or Bonneville... the car or LeSabre/PA... the car. I was talking about the condition these decisions and type of handling of the divisions left Buick and Pontiac in for sales. Dont throw the "its now Buick Pontiac GMC" in my face. That seems to matter little when they start adding up the total annual sales and market share, then all of a sudden its "Buick didnt sell enough cars" It also does little for the dealers that lost these demographs from their sales potential. Lutz did over see all the cars I mentioned. We waited an extra 2 years for the new Regal -"Lacrosse" because Lutz sent them back to the drawing board, and he approved the Lacrosse Face it hes is not an Earl or Mitchell and people need to start seeing him as just another exec collecting a fat check that is over due for retirement. I like the word "boringest"......if you cant figure it out because it aint in the dictionary..."what the hell" is the matter with you... .... Seriously look at the rear of the many cars the Lucerne could compete against, they are far more detailed or carry more character, it was a short fall and I will point to Lutz and say "where were you ?" "playing golf" "or making another one of your foolish interviews" I could find dozens of higher stated Buick tailights over a multitude of decades, including recent ones. Finally you said this " There's no use crying over spilt milk, and the future is what's more important." Well we've all heard that our entire lives. My point was these are the people that were incharge and these are the mistakes and oversites they made. Only a few of them actually, just the little items on models here and there i could think of off the top of my head. I cant give them superhero status like everyone else here seems to.

I can tell, this stuff is going right over your head. I just cant put the time into explaining how the aura is today, the same exact thing the G2 Aurora was to Oldsmobile...only 6 years later. I also cant explain why G is by far superior to Epilson. So if reality means newer is better... than Epilson must be dated and G body brand spankin new. But that had absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Oh........really ? Hey everybody, read this and pass it around, it must be true.....

Oh looky, yet another spelling fetish...............

If thats the way you want to see it and present it to others..........good for you Myself I think thats a streach and my comparision is in no way a streach.

Ive always related the looks of a G1 Aurora, and the previous gen Grandprix SE or what ever it was that only had lower grills.......wih the platypus or however its spelled. I like platypussyies, so cute....... So what is up with the pot belly pig look on these new GM Suv's or Vans Ive been seeing ?.............enough to make me want a Honda.

Na, I dont think so, the front is just not as standout. Then theres the grills. but for styling I believe its a pretty solid design. Seems like the coupe should have different facia or something though, because coming from opposite dirrection you cant tell which it is until you get the first peak of the hips.

Heard that !

Got one of dem dar whit ons in da driveway Blu. Everytime I look at it from the rear, I just want to get naked and rub all over it... Driving it for hours is another story. Then I feel like someone got naked and rubbed all over my rear..... ...someone named Lutz.... remember in hetero this is not a positive... I guess alot of people are comfortable in them though. Very sweet looking, great handling and drivability. Pretty good package for the price too. Ours, case you forgot is taupe cloth, which, in my opinion adds a lot more character to the interior. It puts two tone on the doors and lightens up the inside. This was the only car within 100 miles that had that interior. There was a taupe leather retractable but out of our budget. All the black interior cars ? ...we would have passed. But yea, they are one sexy beeyach

Go boys GO ! Now we all can see why the Government has not accomplished a thing in 200 years. Now we can see why in business the "too many Chiefs, not enough Indians" saying came abouts. Now we can see where the expression "the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing" Now we can see why American corporations are in such a shambles. V8's are dead...they'll soon be replaced by V16's

whats in whos ass ? Anyhow Im not clueless in the slightest bit. Nor am I inexperienced with all the different engine designs. Your just such an easy pick with your one sided, have "credentials", "what I say is gospel", "not opinion", "no compromise". "not two sides to every coin" attitude. 1. DOHC in most but not all cases has just finally come around in the torque department............FACT ! 2. DOHC has always required a lower final drive.........FACT ! 3. DOHC has in most but not all cases finally come around in the gas mileage department........FACT ! 4. All domestic OHV V8's and V6's have always had more torque than horse power.....FACT ! 5. This (#4) has been changed in recent years where HP now mostly matches the lowered torque values of said engines....FACT ! 6. Anyone that doesnt understand this statement or see where it is reletive to your comment is clueless and sad......FACT ! I did just simply ask a question and then made some true comments concerning the matter........no answer I did just simply ask what these number/letter cars or engines your throwing at me were........no answer I realize others should be impressed with your shunning and ignoring me for not knowing.......but Im not....Im not here for a fan club. I never assumed most here would or should automatically know what I was talking about when I say L27, LG3, L32, LN7.......even LS7 for that matter. I remember the time I commented/complimented after you bought your C6. I said something regarding myself also being the proud owner of the same family tree. You asked with interest what I owned, obviously expecting C4 or C5 but when I said "no I have a L67 powered Olds" you ended the conversation right there, I was not worthy............ So funny being how just a few weeks prior I got out of our LSS and straight into my buddys C5 6 speed and took it for a spin. All the while not believeing how similar both cars felt in power delievery as well as steering and seating ergonomics. No learning curve what so ever, one could easily teel they were built within the same company under the same set of values. Same strong torque pull, bla bla bla. He also has an A6, sold his 84ish 560? SLC, and just replaced that with a 535 or some such 5 series car for his girlfriend. He doesnt look down his nose at my LSS, in fact he likes it, but can afford big dollar AWD cars for his girl and goes that route. ........His work trucks ? New....... every 3-4 years...fully loaded Silverados...cash... Oh and he says the 535 is a little in his words "gutless" compared to the A6 but has more newer features. He would have picked another BMW but it was for her not him... This actually isnt a friend, I have known him my whole life, he is more on brother status. We fight, we laugh, we argue, we agree.. His Mom and mine were best friends in school and that is how we ended up growing up on the same street. Still not clueless but do enjoy a good laugh.

Theres a fair amount of teenagers that get Buicks for first cars. There had been so many to choose from for years. The supply is tapering off as new sales tapered during late 90's & 00's. Ive come across very few young people on any of the forums that did not like PA's, many seemed far more enthoused than myself. They are something inside though. However the aftermarket for recent Buicks and Oldsmobiles has always sucked. Its sometimes sad to see these guys come on some forum and ask what they can buy for their car. Aftermarket suppliers respond to demand and whos got the money to buy. Many people talk the talk but dont have the money........especially after they spend hundreds on stereos that make the back of the car sag and then eventually rattle apart......... As for these Lucernes, I so glad to see the effort. 11 customs sounds like alot. We can only hope someone takes notice. But its going to take more than "bling" wheels and insane amounts of bass to impress me.

So did they ever come clean on what the actual cause of death was ? Neck ? Head trama ? There wasnt even much damage to the car was their. It appeared that the other car actually had more impact.

torque is part of the powerband scenerio too, especially considering very few people have been seen red lining their vehicals.. I would imagine I use little more than 50 ponys or so, except on hills when I prolly use 100.. I just cant imagine runing around at 3500 RPMs all the time.

If GM closes the Saab plant in Sweden and builds them all in Germany, they will no longer be Swedish and they will no longer be Saabs, just posers. Aston and Jaguar, from what I read, were left alone to do their own thing to retain their actual idenity. At least at first, not sure how that has held out or what the current statis is for Jag. I really hate to see this happen to Saab, the old 900's were great cars, had personal identity, they just drug out too long. I remember when they were far ahead for the times and impressive little cars, inside and out. Kinda like the king of the FWD's. No I dont ? Its really confusing but when cars are no longer part of the country they came from they are gone. they then become simply a name and then it is meaningless. Might as well do Honda or Toyota or Kia.I cant believe the auto indusrty is going the way of professional sports. Were supposed to know who the home team is, not was. I dont account for Canada, N American is typically what I mean. They have been building "Domestics" on all sides of the Lakes forever, its irrelevent to me. That had been one of the freeist borders ever, so long as there was no sales tax's to be concerned with. "Assembled" does not equal "Manufactured". Stihls have been assembled in the US for years, still manufactured in Germany with German engineering and standards, that is why they are the best. The early Saab "V4" was a industrial Ford engine, may have even been German Ford, not English Ford, but I forget the details.

Do you know about the STS ?

Heres a photo the means something to us 2dr LeSabre H body guys.

I saw that "accident" over and over, no way in hell should that have killed anyone let alone caused an injury. If seen F1 cars fly and flip 3 4 times in the air, no injury. Grand Am prototypes air born like 20 feet up and over a hundred feet traveled, land radically hard stuffin the nose in the dirt, no injuries, I saw a Porsche jump a curb, cut a corner, fly through the air, land on top of the GTO bunce off and take the lead, no accident no injuries. That was last years final race for the season, last lap and who ever crossed the finish line first was not only race winner but series winner. Great race, the Porsche team should have been called but somehow they got away with it. Anyhow something was funny about that Earnhart accident, I dont think he was even straped in his seat. I never followed Nascar closely, I have caught bits and pieces over the years but I never thought his "style" of driving was bragable. It takes nothing to tap someones rear to spin them and put them out of the race. If thats the skill you need to apply in order to win it doesnt prove your a better driver or have a better machine. Im not denying his record or abilities, but I do believe many of his wins were dirty, not skill. I viewed the accident as exactly what he had done to so many other cars over the years. That car taped him into the wall and they both just slide like a rail down it, very little impact at all, certainly should not have killed anyone in a helmet and harness. Maybe it was another CIA assassination/ cover up...............the Man, tryin to keep the Redneck down.........

Confused........but yes all screwed up. What is GM going to delete the Swedish automotive jobs ? Theres something to be proud of.......... Maybe build them in China, that would be a novel idea. The Sweds have built some great stuff over the years, especially in forestry, must be they cant keep ahold of them though. They were pioneers in mechanized and computorized timber harvesting equipment. Far advanced from anything Deere ever came up with. Most of the Swedish forestry manufacturers were bought by John Deere. Canadian Timberjack bought them first creating Timbco, then Deere bought Timberjack. Such bull$h!, mega corporations, I hate them. Nothing but destruction in their path. Just looks great on WallStreet and eliminates competition. But yes, regardless of what Balth says I do not agree, if Saabs were still built in Sweden, they would be Swedish. Aston Martin is owned by Ford but they are Brit. Now GMs on the other hand are becoming no longer American and Asians cars are becoming American. Id like to switch over to VW but they have a large percentage of Mexican built parts. I mean WTF ? Is there any place I can spend my money and help employ my fellow countrymen besides tax's ? I just hate it !

I should have went to the site and counted. I still dont see why they are in 5th, 7th, 10th and 13th..then ? Maybe because the other Acura and BMW teams are doing so poorly. I think one of the Cobalt teams has done poorly too. They have a hard tow to row to beat the Turner Motorsports BMW team. 49 points and a 6 hour endurance race. Thats what I want to see, I want to see Georgian Bay win the series. That is one single FWD Cobalt, defeating everything Turner BMW and Bill Fenton Motorsports / Acura RSX - S could throw at it. Including one RX8 from Speedsource.

Deal !, Id say, great !

Im feelin this...somehow...seem to know...

Come on Balth......with all the mechanically inclinded around here, you wouldnt expect an answer to that would you ? Its got six , its got six

I may get to drive ours again this Sunday, Autumn is upon us and I think we will head down into the Catskills for a drive. I believe C&D gives all American cars a 1 second delay, just because. The GTP is a little Tiger in 1st and 2nd, I know I dont have time to look down at gauges, just shift and shift. People are claiming low mid 14's, which prove its quick and with my opinion about the 60-90 range it must be making up for it in the 0-60. I so wish they would adapt and interface the Eaton M90 to this 3900, then we would really have something. we'd need 92 octane but we would really have a monster. Maybe for RWD they could do it.