razoredge

I was making a point that should not have been hard to understand....apparently it was. Read it word for word again and try to let it sink in...I believe I used the word "we"... I believe I refered to things very fairly...I believe when I see people talking like that in public...they are trashy...I put one simple "f@#k you" in a post once and was called on it by a moderator...apparently you carry some sort of diplomatic immunity from our moderators. I was simply offering some dignified advise, that our moderators seem unable to supply... I cant see the point of the wasted typing to add the extra vulgar words. It certainly is not impressive. I dont see any .......repeat ........ANY of the other members here express themselves in that excessive a manor. I thought it was a fair friendly request.

I dont get it, how is the priceing of the Mustang any higher than a GTP ?

There was a slighty used bronze Mustang convertable, when we were looking, it was a V6, nice interior package, it was really the car I wanted. She just had her heart set on the G6. There is already a few girls where she works with Mustangs and thats all it takes and then she doesnt want a car..........it has to be different and stand out.........that is something the white G6 GTP does well. SO did the LSS, but over the years there is now more and more Eighty Eights around, nearly the same silver/pewter color and even a few LSS's. SO it seems less special............but we know better...ours is one of the few supercharged and the LSS with its wheel/tire/stance still stands out. The price on the Mustang conv. was $19,000+ I really really wanted it. Back seat be damned............ I wouldnt try to talk you out of this one Blu............unless they have stupid stuff going on in the cockpit too.

Skunks ! - Why did they make those things ?

When I first saw 66/67 Toronado.......again.......I was like "What the hell were they thinking, its too overdone, too outlandish, just plain crazy, to heavy looking, ect. ect. ect" I couldnt find enough words to describe how totally wrong that car was. Well as most of you that have been around awhile know, my username represents the 66/67 Toronados front fender design. I still dont like the over wide band around the wheel openings, which is one of the reasons I like the 70 Toro so much. Other GM's The recent GP - I still think the rear is a snoozy ass, but the front which radically repelled me has grown on me alot, to the point that I actually like the car now....alot The Ferrari Enzo I like now, really did not like it when new, still prefer the curvacious look of the Modena but the Enzo has its charm.........thinking of buying one soon......... The other new Ferrari...the one that came out last year, forget the number, 5 something, I can deal with that now, hated it when I first saw it.

Geoff Tate - Queensryche - not gay Ronnie James Dio - introduced in "Blackmores Rainbow" after first Deep Purple break up, great early influential vocalist for kickin Metal , Gay ? I dont think so ? I wish I was castrated right out of the "box". Think of all the frustration... and distraction... and heartache... and embarassment that would have eliminated....... then my user name could be........ "butterknife".................

Or more accurately clikable thumbnails. How do I make them ? Im dumb........know nothing. I see Camino always uses them. I wanted to post up some auto show pictures I have for starters but dont want to do full size photos for space purposes. I have 35 mm that I will have to scan and send to photobucket first. Then what ?

Agreed, this is and has been the Mustang formula......and bygolly, looky here, the Mustang has survived.

I just gotta wonder why someone owing 10 grand on an Impala would be willing to get rid of it. Even if it does have some problems, it would be cheeper to fix than get into more car loan. Residuals are always poor on Domestics, you cant expect anything. Thats why their best value is in driving them,......and eventually to their death or 5-800 dollar value. Where they can still be good looking, good running reliable transportation..........at least old Buicks and Oldsmobiles could, cant vouch for the Impala. I had to keep the 97 LSS because they offered me $200.......... Well... keyed paint was the issue and paint job is a few grand so there it was. But I still own a great car that looks excellent from 20 feet, has 110,000 mile which is only half its life and is rock solid reliable...AND RELAXINGLY COMFORTABLE I'll eventually get the scratches out and in primer and pay good money for quality paint job and still have a far better car and value than any Atlama. In fine print I would like to suggest you curb your vulgarities a bit, I use them too, occasionally for proof of point, but excess is over the top and unbecoming. After all that is part of the "White Trash" scenerio we fight so hard to excape...no ? It just extra typing anyhow

Ill agree but GTO base is approx $8000 over GTP base. So thats larger payments and out of reach for some of us. Not that $ value for what you get is an issue. GTO was just out of my/our league.

No Im not that kind of idiot, somekind but not that. I actually just got back from a trip to the city last night and all the way I just couldnt believe that these things were designed like this. It did and does have me truely kickin mad but not at that beautiful car.........just please bring me the col-ledge grads responsible and Ill show all where Ill do the kickin. I will get this all photo documented and up on articals, I promise. Anyone that owns one and drives it regular in all conditions and denies these problems is in denial for what ever reasons. They do exist. Alot of people have not drivin many cars and least not comfortable older designed car where these layouts were always a givin, not something that someone needed to changed in an effort to be one of great revelation. So what Im saying is if you dont know better you will say "I dont have a problem with it". Then I will say you need to get a real car because you know not what you are missing. Vipes, I drive with back of seat all the way up, old school.....used to be called "bolt upright" I always get a kick out of the side hats with their little heads in the back passenger compartment....... The cures are so simple 1. Longer telescopeing steering wheel column, it is simply designed 4" too short 2. relocate what ever the heck electronic device that is behind the console and reshape the plastic so it does not extend into the foot area.....like consoles have always been 3. design - slide/fold/hinge/whatever - away cup holder into the dash beside the "stack" out of the way and extend the armrest/storage compartment forward into the area where it was supposed to be in the first place......where arm rests have always been 4. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel.........in this case... steering wheel and make it completely round to fit the hand and wittle fingies........like all tool handles have always been.....then stop trying to make them as fat as a sledge hammer handle.........this is a steering wheel, its a fine tool used for fine widdling like say a chislers hammer.........not a friggin 12 pound maul designed to beat things into submission. If fatter was better I would think the primative scondrels that proceded us in previous decades, those that were born farmers sons and hardened to the core would have designed their wheels the size of a pick axe handle. But no, they did not. So how large is the diameter of a baseball bat handle ? Why is that ? Does said baseball bat have flat spots on it ? Why is that ? ANY QUESTIONS !!!!!!!!!! :AH-HA_wink: Im just rehearsing for my full assult on "Czar Bob Guru Lutz" the Putz, perhaps by then I will have it worked out and wont be too ruff on the old guy.....after all, we know its wrong to disrespect thy elders....even if they are Putz's... Of course he could always do HIS JOB and make these things go away and then I will withdraw his newly earned nickname.

I loved the removable steel factory hardtop for my Alpine, it was good looking too. I didnt find the top on the GXP concept very sexy. If you have a canvas for rain emergencies and a removable at home for poorer weeks anyone in this roadster catagory that is to taken back by not having some fancy folding steel mechanical nightmare taking up their trunk is far too much of a pansy to be driving a real sports car................. (hows that for a sentence ? ) This is a nitch car anyhow.........that now has stiff competition from "another car company". Its going to take years to get payback for developement dollars, by that time the spell will have passed and people will be buying roadsters with "disproportional over hangs" that offer a trunk..............

Regardless of the this and thats, Honda did a great job getting that flat of a torque curve. It is a NA engine.........did anyone read.......even the author said you cant touch forced induction for its torque. While Im an advocate for low RPM torque over highrpm HP that we rarely use on the street, the extreme RPM and HP of that Honda must be extremely stimulating when drivin in anger and most likely gets the job done. This is the clientel that Honda attracts with their Vtec. So I wouldnt beat it down too bad. How would the NA ecotec or VW stack up ? That said its too bad they did not include the SC SS Cobalt in this. That would be good for us to visually see. That said I can already see that "other car company" already seems to steal the show and recieve credit for the DI twin scroll Ecotec in the media.........great..........tic toc tic toc tic toc...... Pontiac Finally I loved this one Something the 3900 also does but yet is denied by other owners.....just me again flying around in the twilight zone........... Great job VW !

Go check it out, then use your best evaluation, search your mind and ponder.........why are these areas......designed this way ? If you can find an appropriate convincing explaination..........get back to me, with specifics that will prove you really looked into it and though it over. I will gladly listen. Tool handles are round, the fingers curve evenly, wraping themselves smoothly, comfortably around.........a steering wheel is a tool and should not be flat on the top side, outside, whatever you chose to call it...........PERIOD ! Never were.......why are they now ? Look, Im not sitting here crying about hard plastic, not enough gear numbers, not enough camshafts, not enough air bags Im complaining about some things that no one whos drivin for 30 years would have ever thought could possibly be an issue, not on the radar and yet here they are, so screwed up, so wrong, so easily unnecessary. Is it a rant ? OK, maybe I should have Lutz's job. Its more than apparent there needs to be someone in charge because it obvious no ones got their eyes on. I was quite for months, hoping for adaptation, hopeing there was something wrong with my expectations, hopeing I would never have to admit I was wrong, save face so to speak..............well I guess I have boiled over.................go check it out and be really honest, not complacent as I was. Sorry for your thread Blu, you know as well as I, we were two of the most interested individuals on this site about the GTP coupe........I even backed it up with a purchase. I will leave this thread alone now, I just want someone to pay attention to these two areas of driver comfort. If someone prefers a wheel a distance away, I can deal with that, though I though that would be a benefit of tele. However this right foot area, cup holes and flat sided steering wheel are awkward, unforgivable and unnecessary. I am sorry but not for GM

This is true, and I realize he is also somewhat bound as to what is appropriate to divulge. I however dont believe, from what Ive seen and heard from Wagoner, Lutz & Laneve that they are much more credible that those Evok discredits for critizing them or their "plan". No matter how good their plan is it wont change perception with product flaws.........if it could at all. Once again let me beat the dead horse and say, even with perfect product and all the promises fullfilled I believe "their gone and aint commin back". Global economics is killing the industrialization of this country, this is the last segment that is holding on and its by a fine thread.........which is still made of cotton. Its laughable that we feel threatened by Japanese cars anymore. Thats old history. We are now lowered one step further in competing to keep sales from crossing over to the Korean cars. In advertising, the Koreans don't even take Domestics as a challenge. All their advertising is to compete against Toyota and Honda. I believe they feel grabing potential Domestic customers is a givin and the main focus is to get some of Toyotas and Hondas clientel. Another thing I have yet to hear anyone say about Domestic residual values....The fact that cheap, new, guarenteed Korean car are hard competition on clean, used, one owner Domestics. All we hear about is the "fleet" sales keeping residual values down. While this may be true, I also believe these new, waranteed, inexpensive Korean deals are intensely affecting Domestic residuals but what do I know ? I just draw assumptions based on years of degreeless bystander observation

Ours is 352 month, no money down, no trade in. That is due to the 0%. The voice raising is for your ears to hear, its a game, same as when you get up to leave, they tell you to wait a minute, then go back in the "room" to see if you wait. So you do wait, out of respect, while they watch you around the corner and do a little more yelling, then come back and say, "no we cant do any better". Last guy they did that to punched the door of the car............. The G6 coupe does have body ripples, above and below the crease, on the door and in the rear quarter, go check it out at night, very obvious, not so much in broad daylight. If you had checked out the areas I pointed out you would have seen clearly what I was talking about. I just drove ours again tonight, with the side of my foot on the gas pedal and barely the tip of my elbow on the arm rest. No cups to deal with, thank goodness. I must have learned how to drive wrong, I always though you operated pedals with the ball of the foot or just behind, into the arch, similar to bicycle, horse riding and pedal operated equipment. No chance to get the ball of the foot on a G6 GTP gas pedal with the console 1 inch away. Must be GM engineers figure that ball/arch of the foot all these centurys was simply bogus human habit that needed to be changed. Gotta love the flat spot with a barely rolled edge on the overly fat steering wheel too. I heard one day soon they are going to start putting flat spots on shovel handles, pick axes, and sledge hammers. I understand the framing carpenters are really excited about a new hammer with a flat spot on the handle.......... Their crying for fatter and fatter handles as well.......

Folding hardtop ? And they are going to stick it where ? And at what price ? and at what performance losses ? So now how much would the car weigh ? Maybe they could make a "Continental" style trunk to make way for this "top" ? atta boy "Czar" putting your money and focus in the right place...........like you did the trunk form over function = Czar form over function = Czar form over function = Czar

I bet they didnt let anyone sit inside. An Epilson no matter how many times you bake it is still an Epilson. Glad to see GM dealers are excited, now the only question that remains - "can they sell the things?"

Actually BV, you are the one trolling in this area, you rarely offer a thought of your own. Evok offers little thought, just his typical, "Im somebody, I know things, the rest of you are uneducated" Yet GM is still troubled.........makes me wonder where Evok is positioned "inside" this mangled up, disasterous, war zone of poor decisions. Surely your not about to flip flop again. Now suddenly are you prepared to endorse a General Motors vehical ? If Wagoner and Lutz are the answer, how come you still dislike every GM vehical on the market ? You and millions of other N. Americans. Things aint perty and someone better start taking it seriously.

Yes it telescopes, yet all the way out its further away than former conventional wheels. It seems the only benefit of this telescopeing wheel is for those that want to drive, lock elbowed, with their shoulders. I dont look like a monkey hanging, just feel like one. The look more resembles Frankenstien walking with his arms held out in front of him. Its a bit rigid for my tastes. I like to relax, that stiff armed, white knuckle $h! is for high speeds, not sprited driving but HIGH SPEED. It certainly has no place in a simple country drive or trip to the city and back. Im serious, you have been driving for awhile, many vehicals, just think about it as you drive and position stuff. I sure I wish I had. It took me a few 200 mile trips before I totally realized that I could never get comfortable and relaxed in the car. I did a long drive the day we bought it, read my review, it came out bazaar, you'll notice I had little to say except that I needed time to adapt to carving my radious properly, I just couldnt figure out the feel of the car. Not something I traditionally have problems with. Then I drove it to Limerock and began to be concerned with the issue. Then came the second trip to Limerock and I KNEW, I knew something is wrong with the layout in that car. I have driven and wore out alot of cars. I never had one I found awkward......until this one. Really sucks too because this car looks the part I like, it is however, not the car it looks like.

Wow.......sounds like me.....you dont want to be a little edge meister like myself do you ? Think about that and you will start being very nice to people.......... I got someone pissed at work too but I think that guy has some issues. It was such a minor thing, and this guy had a tantrum.

Australia to Newfoundland.........Wow, a bit of acclamation to do there.

My advice would always be "when in doubt.........hump it !" Was that street "Gay Ave" or whatever a coincidence or chosen ? I didnt know that, I knew cigarette but could never understand how they correlated that. I believe as time passes things will become easier and more acceptable for gays. I too have a distant cousin named Gay.........also one named Joy. There is a property at the top of the hill that is owned by "The Gays" know for decades as "The Gay Place"....long before Gay was determined to be the politically correct word. How about this ?"Oh Joy........here comes the Gays".... I have thought alot about this and I gladly grant you the word gay, its is the only word to be used that doesnt sound demeaning. Rob Halford (if I spelled that correctly) from Judas Priest devestated the macho heavy metal boys egos when he "came out". I even remember a few arguements with my "Metal" friends about vocalists. They always claimed Halford to be the "Opera" capable vocalist of Metal. I always said "No way! You want opera level you look to Freddie Mercury" They would always get this funny look and say something along the lines of "but he's queer" Truth is Geoff Tate is the real Opera level vocalist of metal

Better drive it awhile, and ask yourself if you like the gas peddle/foot action and hanging from the steering wheel with two hands like an ape. Its way too far away for me. I know your shorter so it might not be as bad but I still bet you cant get your arms on the armrest and hands on wheel at the same time. You may also notice you need to push the clutch that extra little distance with your ankle, kinda like tip toe action...Never in all my years................have I drivin such an awkward car/truck/machine/bike/sled/ski/tricycle/little red wagon.......

Is this really true ? That is the soul reason the word gay was chosen ? So its by coinscience ? I actually know nothing about that riot. The other terms that were used, were so misused and turned vulgar that they sound vulgar. I looked gay and queer up in dictionary and unfortunatly queer is a fairly accurate discription but its rude and vulgar sounding. No matter what you do to the word gay it doesnt sound vulgar or insulting. So thats why it works for everyone. But I know for a fact my parents generation and my Grandparents generations used the term gay all the time to describe fun times. Thats why it bothers me, now you dont dare use the term except for referencing homosexuality. If I went to work and told the guys "I feel gay today".........well, I would only be slightly less popular. Somehow when I hear "Have a yabadaba gay ol time".......I dont picture Fred and Barney doing the wild thing. HOWEVER.............Wilma and Betty....................oh yea ! works for me.......... when the boys are at work ya know.......