razoredge

I'd just like to know what designers were thinking of in model year 1977 or perhaps it was 74 or 75 when they began the drafting.

The 70's Ninety Eight was truely magnificent. I just think it came off styling wise better than the rest. That my tastes however but they were just so right. I have the black leather interior of a particular car perminantly imbedded in my mind and I was into sports cars only at that time. A few of the fathers had them back in the day and they were quickly spotted and identified http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons//AH-HA_wink.gif Now everyone please take note of that 88 Royale 2dr hardtop yummy, I just love the flares they come together nicely on the 98 with the fender skirts too. As for the Caddy/Lincoln/Imperial thingy. The saying is all that caught on. Lincoln and Imperial were not short lived or thought to be lesser by the Joe Publics it was just the saying that was catchy.

Ok, ok, ok I thought of one. I was totally unaware or ignorant to the beauty of awsome cars like the Rivieras and Toronados or NewYorkers, 300's, and Imperials, or Galaxys and Monterys. I only had eyes for Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes or Cudas, or Europeans sports cars and that was well into my 20's or maybe even thirties. Now Im more refined [That too was humor]

Wow this topic is not what I thought it was at all. Some of you guys scare me, and you are regulars at an auto forum ? For some reason I never had any of those misconceptions as a youngster. I only got more confused as I got older. [This was not an attack, it was in humor]

LA I just wanted to say I figure you are right (A.) but what do you mean by (B.) "not a segment"? Do you mean that just say a Cuda is not really a GT car ? I ask because there is or was I should say quite a difference between the European and American idea of greatness in an automobile at that period of the 50's,60's,70's. This has created quite a bit of grief for me in certain topic's here from time to time. I figure understnading the different views and accepting what "drove" the automobile industries "on both sides of the pond" is half the battle to keeping an open mind. (which as you can see I dont have with Asian cars but that is really a National financial issue with me not a true dislike for "riceroni". Except for the ZX's or 2+2's I have always loved all "Datsun" Z'z, The 3000/Stealth, not as big on the supras styling as some guys seem to be, anyhow it has been a good picture topic even with the confusion of what GT really is. My LSS is a Luxury Sport Sedan :P I suppose that does describe it fairly well. Now if LSs was used on an Italian car it would be a Leggero Sports Salon :P ah, what the heck, heres a period correct photo of a 68 GT500 American style I loved Mustangs right up until 71. A serious strong influence in my youth. Which is that answer to another one of your topics. These Shelby guys were out in full force last weekend at Limerock Rolex Historic weekend.

Oh boy, I dont know how this topic came to this. I was not belittleing teaching but it appeared that way anyhow. Then I got caught between two attacks on two different issues, one where a few thought I felt Union workers deserve to make a good living and somehow I felt Teachers didnt and therefore had double standards. SO Im getting attacked and tied up in a knot by that misunderstanding and in the mean time I have two teachers hurt and all pissed off because - Im not really sure, probably because I said they only had 180 days. Well thats show up time anyhow but Im sure I should not have said 180 days because I do know life/job is not that simple. Still I believe "teaching is a good gig", now myself Id take that as a compliment. And yes teachers get alot of time off and have a short day. Now theres the supply thing, most jobs have some expenses but Ill assume because I was just told, teachers spend lots on supplys. Art teachers maybe, elementary school teachers maybe, but not in our district nor in the one I grew up in. All that stuff is in school and what isnt we are told to buy for our kids. Im not really sure what supplys are needed anyhow so Im a little lost on that one. I just dont remember needing much for Math, Social, English, art used supplys, Science used supplys for labs, I never saw Coach buy balls or gloves but maybe ? Shop or what they now call "technology" materials must be paid for by parents. AND I hope your not pissed off becasue of what I said about (" The rural teachers are pissing and moaning") wanting what suburban teachers earn because that is exactly what is going on in this rural school district. Every time budget gets kicked down we have to go to the "big" meeting and get told about how much the Suburban teachers make and how much the Suburban accessment rate is and how it will be an investment in our childrens future. Now this is an attack I suppose but could you tell me, does this mean that if a teacher doesnt get their raise they will give a poor quality education to the kids ? So Paulie ( I realize now that because I used his name I am attacking him) anyhow Paulie that is what I meant about your rent problem and having covered that in the paragraph about Rural/suburban. It simply meant the standard of living and cost of living are completely different according to areas. Please excuse that "attack and belittlement" I remember when once, awhile back Paulie mentions he was a teacher and I thought "cool" cause I can relate having been around so many but somehow we can forget all about that now, ey ? And I was asked by someone I cant mention because its an attack why Im so mad now and swearing, geeze, I could just about kick and storm all over the house about this crap, its gotten so out of control, doesnt anyone else get pissed off when what they say is turned into something it was not meant to be ? Thanks guys for your cooperation in trying to understand what I was really saying. Yet I must endure a massive amount of comments about deserving little because of that nasty college word. well Ill tell you I am a contributer, I have worked hard my whole life and I know many others that have and I just believe we all deserve a good living. [Is that the first time Ive said that ? Fair share thing ?] But yet no one can hear what Im saying. How about this, maybe this will sink in. Union blue collar workers make a good living and should, the rest of us below them are underpaid. Teachers make a good living and should and the rest of us below them are underpaid fair enough ? Your right Chief (sorry for the attack) I did not look at that "problem" you presented for more than 4 seconds and immeadiatly drew the conclusion that you did all students all hours. Now I look at it and it still throws me. "$5/hr X 7 (hours) = $35 $35 X 105 = $3,675 (per week) $3,675 X 5 = $18,375 (per week) $18,375 X 7 = $128,625 (per year)" It looks like you came up with 35 per student @ $5 for 7hr $35 X 105 gives per day for all students but I see you have (per week) but then you take what I assume is a per day fee and multiply that by a 5 day week and get another (per week) figure, now I see the problem that should be (per month) and then 7 months - OK well it threw me, I went no further than the 18,000 (per week) - God would someone just shoot me So do you figure teachers should make 130 thousand just to round it up ? wonder what our per thousand accessment rate would be then ? Total tax bill ? 600 a month ? Then what would become of rent ? See it just gets uglier by the minute but thats OK because somehow that is my fault at least in this topic. Then for the anti Union, blue collar folks (not the teachers) would this mean, assuming $52,000 is accurate for "labor" work, which it would be at 25 per hour, does this mean they are over paid or would they now be underpaid? because a teacher would be making somewhat better than 100% more :( See Im totally against that large of a separation for all worthy contributing "ants" or "puppets" as I have sometimes called us. Well at least now you all have determined I am Damien himself :unsure: Really thanks alot guys for all the great interpretations of my extremely toiled posting, thanks a friggin lot. I grossed 50 something one year, it was 60 percent overhead though (materials and supplies), oh well I felt like ...... well, Damien himself. :( Rock on brothers, I do so hope you love what you do for life, thats what its all about anyhow, just some of us can make decent living at our "port" and some of us struggle.

Yea, well your all still spewing the same crap and saying I said and defended things I did not. Now I was just accused of not putting any effort into my life. Seems I was way kinder than the rest. I never said anything about taking from teachers, never. I defended blue collar workers for being said that they should take cuts, even comments about how they should be paid little. Typical humanity at its best. Only caring about your own position and screw everyone else. I have nothing to gain either way with the Unions but I do defend blue collar work. Let me remind everyone again that I have worked production almost all of my entire life. For those of you that dont seem to know what that is, and screw it into meaning Im a factory worker, its when you get paid for only what you do. When things are down there is no income. The harder you work the more you make, if you are slow paced like the rest of the world you will starve. Still at extreme pace I never got my share but I did it and never striked or demanded more. So get the fuck off my back, I did not put down teachers but I have had to listen to plenty of putting down, just like most of the above anti me posts. Grow up and read straight without the twist.

Woa ! Talk about making assumptions and accusations. Attacking ????? Damn and I wasnt even pissed off, a teachers strike does piss me off however I quess, but I wasnt pissed off. Didnt even piss actually. I thought I was nice, I guess saying teachers live well above the average income of the familys they teach was an attack ? Tell you what, how about showing me one attack that I wrote, just the sentence please not complete quotes from paragraphs. I need to visually see one of these attacks. I addressed you because I was responding to what you said, same as I would in a conservation. I call that respect but I was probably brought up wrong. I would never and do never PM anyone, thats coy and something I consider wrong. An oath/vow of Poverty?????? Wheres that, that they take the vow of poverty ? 40 thousand for a degree is nothing compared to 10 years of being paid 10 thousand less than you are worth which is common throughout the country. Im worth 7 figures too but hey no one knows it. Im sorry you need to do that certificate BS, that is going on in nearly every profession in the country, it is just another form of pick pocketing, someone needs your money thats all. Being how somehow I became the subject of such anger for calling teaching as I see it and believe it is I must believe I was totally wrong. Ok teaching is a shit gig, vows of poverty, nothing but long hours, work work work, always vote yes for the school budget, even when it takes $500,000 more to run the system this year that it did last. Dont question it, just believe it is an investment in your childrens future, so what if your monthly school taxes are more than a mortgage was 15 years ago, no big deal, theres nothing up. I am truely sorry I grew up on the inside, I should not have spoken, apparenty the life I saw and lived in was kinda twilight zone. I believe those teachers are doing the right thing F'in up the school year, its that investment in your childrens baby sitting dollars hard at work. Wonder what those teachers did all summer ? Maybe they should have been applying at the Burbs during lunch time at their summer classes. They were probably busy shopping for clothing for their students...... Now I suppose that could be considered an attack but hey "Im soooooooooo smart" OK !

;-) Now if I could just find some backers :-)

Woa Harley !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where did you find that picture. How cool is that ???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its excellent photography too !!!!!!! Ya'll were talking about a modern Toronado. I would make mine like this. It would be small, 2 seater, large t-tops or even targa, yea targa. It would be aluminum body, tubular moly frame, it would have the short stroke IRL based 4.0 N* IC supercharged, mounted to the new HD 6 speed manual FWD tranny, now the cincher would be to take the Toro to the next level by placing the engine behind the tranny, longitude, yes you would be looking at the back of the engine with the hood up, four large stainless torx head screws would remove the center console, an additional eight would remove the entire center of double insulated aluminum firewall and part of the floor to access front of engine for service of belts, alt, and what ever few other items that can be serviced without dropping entire drivetrain (a problem with the N* anyhow). Entire front section would be one piece aluminum tilt nose for excellent axcess to say sparkplugs ;-). Dual tuned tubular exhaust would exit low, twin cats then right into dual stainless lake pipes that are well muffled with stamped aluminum heat shields. Now this all aluminum body, tilt nose body would be a replica of the Dean Jefferies Toronado ..... but.... fenders would be flared an extra 3 inches with a phat stance and would NOT have the 2' wide flat band seen on 66-69 Toros, 18" wheels/tires set to fill the wells and at the corners of the car to take care of the over hang that Balthy pointed out, remember the engine is behind the axel so the axel is pushed forward anyhow ;-). The header panel/bumper would detach from the aluminum tilt nose and be made like typical bumper cover with foam and bumper bar behind it. The rear choped and angled tail panel would have my favorite built into body "duck tail spoiler". Tailights would blink from inside out in sequence. Yes indeedy it would be painted Sea Foam green with gold flakes, interior - darker green but two tone leather. Did I leave any areas out? Does it sound like I just described an Aurora Bengal Cobra GTO Birdcage XKE Jefferies razor 911T '66 Toronado ? Named Toronado Blade

Damn Dude ! Well I feel bad, now I forget is that your car or family members ? Looks like it can be fixed if you can find one in a yard yet. They were crushing older cars left and right when the scrap prices were high.

Hows about another of my all time favorite cars and moments in time The finish of the 1966 LeMans with a 1-2-3 Ford GT40 MkII 2 seats, mid engined, needed to be seriously detuned and modified to be road worthy ( I watched this on Wide World of Sports at age 8 and will never forget it) OK no more questions about what constitutes a GT car.

Exactly - sort of Bri, however ? Thanks for that defination Harley, that sounds right. It means a car is race bred but road legal. Not your average Cutlass Ciera Cruiser ;-) And American GT or GS or SS or RS or GTX or GTO ect.ect.ect were GT cars because they could go do the demanding big 1/4 miler on Sundays ;-) Its a bad topic, Im tellin ya :-)

Once again heres a picture of the 57 250 GT California, a two seat convertable, and what constitutes a dash/interior to get excited about :P I think these GT Ferraris pre date any GT term used in America or riceville ( does rice really come in GT flavor :P ) heres a 66 275 GTS....convertable 66 330 GTC the popular 67 275 GTB In Ferrari terminology S=Spyder C=Coupe B=Berlinetta GT=?????? and various other "greek" terminology. I really think its a bad topic because of the interpretation thing.

You guys are nuts and got it all screw up and out of proportions. Porsche 911 and all its varients have always been a GT car. In fact they have dominated GT class racing for "ever" and will continue to do so. I might be strange but I know the 911 is a small car. Its also rear engined RWD and at one time was air cooled - oh my god! I think its a bad topic because GT is so open to interpretation. American GT cars were way different from European GT cars and still are. Size meant nothing just going by that. Nyther did rear seat leg room or even if it had a rear seat. Cripes some of the tiny Italian cars like ASA and Abarth were GT cars. Its a bad topic, doomed from inception because there is no true defination or discreption of GT car. It seems to just mean that touring in it is grand if its the car of your desires.

OK Ill make this simple hopefully. Ill do it as a comparision and you can be the judge. I cnat put any more effort into this because its not my kind of game. Please compare the attitude and what I said in my first post on this topic which I will copy and paste. Compare that to some of the crap you may be able to remember people saying about UAW workers and "what the deserve" and "what should be done to them" , ect. I cant copy and paste those peoples comments because they are gone but I ewouldnt put the effort into it anyhow. I dont think what I said here indicates me wanting the death of teachers, death of teacher unions, teachers thrown out in the streets because they cant afford rent or their mortgages any more because they are overpaid. If you absorbed anything that was writtin by the anti blue collar freaks posting on those Union topics I think you would find what I said here to be quite tasteful, and not negitive. I can say no more, if this is the same as the crap that was being posted on those anti Union and anti "non educated" blue collar topics, I must be having flashbacks to the seventies " Teaching is a good gig. All teachers live above the average wage of their communities. Its a 7 hour work day. Its a 5 day work week. All the paid holidays +. Christmas vacation, winter/spring recess, 180 days folks thats it, 180 days. They have the slack time during study hall duty to do the grading, a little time at night but they did only have a 7 hour work day. 8-3 around here. I came from a schoolin family. Many relatives teaching and my father was eventually an administrator. My sister became a teacher, she told me at the end of the first year, I should look into it. First few years is more work because they are learning and getting their system down, after that its same thing year after year. they know the program, the assignments, the tests and quiz's, the methods how to deal with the different personalities. Sorry I dont feel sorry for teachers, they have a good gig. Schools have doubled and in some districts tripled their income from taxes in the past 15 years. It doesnt get any better than that. Come on 45,000 and the summer off? 65,000 and the summer off ? The rural teachers are pissing and moaning because they dont make the income the teachers do from the burbs, well guess what, the country folks dont have the stupid money the people from the burbs do either. Quit trying to raise our standards when we dont have the means to do it. We couldnt afford the annual taxes on those burbian houses let alone the mortgage, dont expect to live burbian standards and live in the sticks, same goes for the inner cities I would guess. " A construction worker needs to work 60 hours a week all year round to make the money teachers do. Building the world is just as important as educating the world. In fact if you studied it there is alot of education to be found in building. Every cog in the box is important. Hell, your all crying for 6 speeds :-)

Its a 20-28000 thousand dollar car. Its Buicks lowest car for whatrever thats worth at this point in time. Hey Im sick of all this moulded plastic but apparently thats what the riceroni buyers wanted so GM is now making all molded plastic panels. In the 80's and up to 90/91 most interior panels in Buicks and Oldsmobiles were still padded or cushioned cloth. Id like to find a 90 Toyota or Honda that could compare with my 90 Regency or our 86 LeSabre Limited or my former 91 Regal Limited. Im still cruising in class and quality thats 19 and 15 years old. Then theirs our 97 LSS. Now I spent quite a bit of time crawling around inside both a new BMW 3__ and a 5__ and Ill tell you right now. They have some more modern features than our now 8 year old LSS but as for the interior they have nothing on that car, unless you want to talk features. Now Im not ignorant and I know there is a different level of suspension and powertrain refinement but these BMW's were very pricy. The 3__ would simply be no replacement for the LSS, its smaller and has less for a back seat. Then it has all the stupid molded plastic panels that are crap regardless of what car they come in. That stuff is just crap so dont go off on GM for following along with the crowd on moulded plastic crap. Plastic crap is plastic crap, can we agree on that ? Then the 5__ had was all plastic crap for interior panels to. The leather was no more of better than the LSS, and frankly nothing was. OUr LSS is a high level of car and its say one generation older than the Bonneville and LeSabre they just stomped so that makes it two. GM just spent a fortune on Saab, Fiat, killing Olds, Cadillac, Humjobs, and satanurine so damn them to hell for putting another Buick on the high selling W body. Well you know what ? Thats what they had left to work with and millions of W body owners probably dont mind that ya'll have a problem with it. In fact I cant think of current or previous W body owners that had all the problems with the W body that ya'll non W body owners have. Same for owners of cars powered by the 3.8. Is the latest Camry chassis really any different than the older Camry chassis ? Yarite ! I dont think any of us pro Buick or GM people said anything about Buick vrs Honda, I think that came from a Honda lover. I had a 75 or so Civic CVCC way back and that did it for me I have never looked at a Honda again and never will. Not just because I think they are crap but because I think I get damn good cars when I shop for well cared for Buicks and Oldsmobiles. I'll look no further because I will not drive riceroni to prove Im a yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yup yuppy ! I have over a million miles worth of 3.8 Buick powered Buicks and Oldsmobiles right here in my garage and they are still running with class and little plastic. But I wish I wish upon a star a big fat Kenworth grill upon my car.

GT = highly open to interpretation, conception, perversion, and who knows what other corruption. Im not sure where it began first. But the various 250, 275 and 330 GT_ Ferraris are and always will be my favorite. Its admitted that even at this time Ferrari put GT initials many various types of cars. Im not sure how much water the GT thing holds but I guess we all get the drift. Its not the plain jane model. However - I didnt know you could get GT Riceroni.

Wow, now Im against careers that require schooling ey ? Or is it that Im against the predjudice that comes from those that have had "schooling" that think those that havent deserve little - regardless. Or that there is no "schooling" that goes on outside of "school". Did I say UAW workers have it bad ???????????? Was I calling for more money for UAW workers ?????????? Hows your teachers doing with you ? Your reading comprehension seems about as good as my spelling. Just read what I say and absorb it, dont put words in my mouth. Any posts I have made regarding Unions have been about Unions, organized labor and decent incomes for all contributors to society, not UAW, I stay away from that because I know nothing about the auto industry. So pulling the UAW out and throwing it at me is BS. I noticed it was kinda like some people thought I was UAW or even manufacturing, but Im not. Im about decent money for all decent contributing Americans. Once again just incase it went over the head. I think teachers make damn good money. They are also the strongest Union in NY State. Do a little research and find out what some of your teachers earn and compare it to your parents and other neighbors. Teaching is a good gig. If you have ability to transfer knowledge so that is can be absorbed and the ability to tolerate ignorance and many other human games, teaching will bring you a good life. Still confused I suppose? :unsure:

Rented this shack for 8years before buying it. Rent was 250 the reduced to 175 by the good priest that bought it midspan. Then sold it to me, owner morgage at a 10 year at 229 per month. Paid it off in 4 years. Its was origionally a camp. Now has full basement and much land scraping and scapeing. Is ready to be torn down to deck and build 2 story modern on top, but the money is not there, anymore. Rents are in the 500's for anthing decent around here. So now you all see what the job of economists is really all about. How to get every last penny a areas income can support. Dance my little puppets, dance to your puppet masters and sing them praise.

BTW Chief - you teach 105 students every hour ? Sorry I had to call you on that one. Wanna take your school budget and divide it by student population and then we'll talk. It makes college look cheap. I had a thought about a slogan for the UAW "Buy American built cars for more, because it will be an investment in Americas future" Would that one be a lie ? Is there something between the lines that Im not reading there ? :unsure:

Hey Chief, no disrespect, like I said I grew up around many teachers, they were everywhere in my life. BUT- that old babysitter routine is old and very tacky, I heard it so many times, its like the teachers swan song. "lets do the baby sitter math" 52,000 is excellent pay.........is it not?????????? if not, I really need a raise because its more than double anything Ive ever made working 50 weeks a year. Its a salary, its 52,000 per year, its not dont get paid during summer. Its 52,000 per year. then you have no benefits......right........ <_< , so the package = how much? Ok never mind Chief, you know and I know that most people dont want to be teachers anymore because there is no disipline in schools, children and teenagers are unruley and no one can deal with it because, well they cant deal with it. Children have the rights today, children rule and adults hang their heads. There are lots of people that would like to make that kind of money and benes, its got nothing to do with the money, its the modern rules and laws that protect nasty kids. Black and Caddy :rolleyes: good little smoke screen but, I dont recall saying teachers should give back money........did I ?????????? Must have :unsure: I think I said it was a good gig and I dont feel sorry for them. I think I said their job includes lots and lots of time off. I know, when my father was a teacher he worked for a tree surgeon during vacations, but he also built his own home, himself, plus a camp and various other things like going to college for his masters to become an adminstrator. These are not things that are possible for most other occupations especially the majority population that lives below the standard of the teachers that work in their childrens school. I would like to leave everyone with another old time famous cleche giving by school systems at budget voting time. "Give us a raise because its an investment in your childrens future." but....if you paid attention in school you would know how to read between the lines and see that it really says.... "give us a raise so we can invest in our future" :o No offence Chief and Paulie, just putting things in perspective. Onces again I have known many great people that were teachers and other various duties in the school system as well as a few college people. I did not say teachers suck and should be destroyed and should work for the wages of India, Korea, China so their schools "can be competitive" Hey!!!!!!! Theres an idea.........oh never mind.

Thats just sick but pretty much sums up the female attitude. I always thought they were a little buggy.

I dont think thats why people but Jap cars, sorry. They buy them because people like you tell them to. Tell them all about the percieved things. When I drive around in my SII powered cars I just have riceroni blowing me away at every oppertunity. Yarite ! And the RWD v8 powered American muscle just smokes me off every stop light and I never even knew we were racing. Ive just got to get it in my head every time I get in the car that Im racing. I dont know whats wrong with me. I think now would be a good time to bring back the 454/455 and 460 hell hows abouts a Cadillac 837 for good measure. No more, more , hows abouts a Caddy 982 with a overall lenght of 258", full frame, and made out of "real" sheet metal I hears there a good market for Riceroni V14's placed in cars with cheaply copied styling and more room in the rear cabin than your average limo. With all this going on theres no way Buick could ever have a "good enough" car. yarite Maybe I could get a job writing for the anti GM publications, I think Im catching on to how its done. Id like to say Im sorry for all the tounge in cheek attitude but I really am getting sick and tired of the BS. Im pretty sure all the top selling cars are so called enimic, bland, boring, cheap, and possibly FWD. I wish I wish upon a star A Kenworth grill upon my car.

Now carguy - that was a 3800, you do realize B) He was smiling when he said that but I knew he would never drive a car like that. I could just imagine the reaction you'd get in that kind of scene in a 8th gen Riviera :P I love those Riviera but they really are kind of a womans car just because they are so feminine and pretty looking. Id have to get the windows tinted so the boys wouldnt know its me. I agree on the VW cabriolet. Actually isnt the Bug, especially the new one kinda of a girl car. I think the old one was too, mixed like most but still girls gravitated toward it. I think they like a car thats got some sex appeal, maybe a little different but still sporty. Those old Fox Mustangs were real popular around this tri city area and so were the Grand Ams no kiddin, my daughter loves both. She was pretty hot on the 96 Regal GS we checked out a few years back too, so I figure there is some hope for her. BTW Harley - she loves the 86 2dr. LeSabre, she should, she grew up in it but she still thinks its sexy.