razoredge

OK, It looks great, very sexy and sporty. Its excellent quality too, but from a functional and personal taste standpoint Im going to critize it. 1. Arch top, I can hear all the criticism the G6, GP and every other GM cars has recieved about rear passenger area. Screw that arched top styling trend it has to go, it doesnt work for passenger cars. I cant belive Im making a toyota comparision but - Do the Toyotas have arched top ? 2. things that are just from chopping from other cars, nothing personal, is the horrible thick black B pillor, then a personal taste of mine is, I really am sick of the hockey stick C pillors. Looks too Mustang, 96 Monty Carlo and a varity of other nameless cars. In other words that is not enough thoughtful class for a Buick. 3. Cant have rear overhangs? OK, well then lets not complain about trunk area. This car looks like it would be confined from the drivers seat back. Great job but it would be a wrong move for Buick to use arch top. They have to flatten out long enough to provide rear passenger area. Save the arches for McDonalds.

Gov handout for labor? am I missing something ? Shouldnt talk about pay level of jobs you havent done or know nothing about. In many areas workers would still be way underpaid if not for organized labor. Sounds like you are distressed about your job ? Perhaps you should be Unionized so there may be hope of a security and future.

68 RS/Z28 w/302 Does it exist, I believe this was covered awhile back but I have forgotten I know Z28 = 302 but I saw a 68 RS Z28 this weekend at Adirondac Nationals, I was kinda thrown. Any details covering the two options would be great.

:lol: :CG_all:

As true as that may be not selling cars in some areas of the world certainly effects the market share. Not that market share means much when total sales are high anyhow, which they apparently are at GM. In regards to someone elses statement, wonder how they got by when only looking at the last page of the book ? "I know how you feel razoredge, you never responded to my post either. Oh well, thanks for the constructive argument. It was good." medication problem maybe ? yeeha!

the only correlation I saw was it remained a 20% profit margin except the 90's version had no gross listed Nicks clueless, takes alot more than labor. Also big moneys at the top not at the raw product end.

Who wants charity ? Who wants jobs ?

I thought thats what I have been doing ? Where was it said that the unions were going after exec pay ? I thought exec were going after the union workers pay or bene package ? I guess thats OK so long as its them wageing class warfare. I do understand what you are saying. nothing will stop it but atleast a few will realize what its doing to our country

BTW - I didnt say the majority of AMericans we headed for the trailor parks. My reference for that is with all the pay everyone is supposed to give up so our companies can compete against those of the "developing world" where is it we are going to end up ?

Well , what is your proposition to maintaining a competive job market for all future American born children. Offshoreing for the big wall street profits ? It seems to be the sole driving force behind everything economic. Cheaper labor the answer to a better country ? or simply wall street profits ? What is it goes on down there again ? What is it we really exchange again ? National Assets ? Is our population an asset ? How in gods name did the human race ever survive the first 1900 years AD ? Without wall street and corporate exec's and all ?

The Razoredge version - A highly observant logger harvests a muture stand of trees, as a crop, the various grades of timber are used for a varity of purposes in housing the demanding world population which has a very large economic value to the population. Now this highly observant loggers sees the younger trees seeded by their parents and realized their potential for future products and the importance of leaving them well and healthy so the forest and all its little critters can live on. I see it too, everyday Task #2 Explain how massive developement of land for housing effects the world economy. Include topics - how does this effect the total acreage of forested land and how do the critters feel about it ? I see it too, everyday!

My sexual preference is often and naughty I didnt see that in the poll ?

Where is he ? Now I am really amused. Well old boy, I just got home from a pretty easy days work, left at 7 home at 9:30. Did you think you said something baffeling up above ?????? Geeze I hope not. What you did was agree with me on most items. If I remember right there is quite a bit of "when did I say that" going on. I'll tell you right now last night I started a sentence something about "I hope you realize at times "I" does not necessarily mean "me" and "you" does not necessarily mean "you". At times it does. I dont care to try to explain any of that, I have heard all about the "there is no us and them, you's and I's. Yea I know, I was generalizing at times to the attitude that college grads seem to have. I also assume they know at times they are wrong, but Im here to point out the best I can, of the side of the I's of the world. [That was a little tongue in cheek humor in hopes of lightening the load] Im not all prick just the usually 99%. Your wrong however I understand everything you wrote before and now, I just think its a bogus way of looking at how things should be, accepting it and walking away because "you cant see it from your house" [I realize that now you think "you" means "you", OK then , well does it ?] Not looking for an answer just implying some internal evaluation. I do my own all the time. I find it interesting that you[now I mean "you"] think Im arrogant ? I can be on certain items but not the ones we're invloved in here. Unless you consider my thinking contributing members all deserve a competive income. After all we have this outragous inflation going on and the economy of the world is leaving a great population of the country behind "headed for the trailor parks and crack towns" as I say. Doesnt sound like the ramblings of an arrogant man to me but hey there ramblings. Sorry I cant hit everything and am not going back through your whole post. I hope I covered most of your issues that involved the "I and me and you" and generalization of attitudes about college and skills that do show up on these topics, like them or not. Im glad to see "you" may not be one of "them". [more humor believe it or not] OK 3/a. I am concerned that these people can earn say 50,000 while other hard contributors only come in at 24-28,000. I see nothing wrong with this concern and feel it needs to be adressed. This is one of the good points to organized labor, they will help keep the standard of living up with the "Jones". Thats not arrogance thats compassion, careing about peoples standard of living. Thanks for telling me about paying attention at work, I have been quite a day dreamer [that was prick like arrogance] Chain reaction have been taking years, everyone is very tired of hearing about the "trickle down effect" something like 2 weeks after Reagan said it. Finally anyone that works hard and lives below the standards that are being set in their area is underpaid, be it teacher, laborer, accountant, telephone jockey, or whatever. They all contribute to the way larger funds that come from the total effort. Mind you Im not saying equal, Im saying I do not like the gap that is growing, someone else about pointed it out. 6/a. I thought the average wage in US was somewhere between 30-35,000. Take the big money at the top out of the formula and what is left ? Alot of your other problems with my inability to understand what you said or you what I said Ive already covered. Finally - "I notice you didn’t hit on these points, why, damaging to your argument: 1. “The Jungle” working conditions 2. The hurricane which ravished cities and peoples lives, and your ability to escape if you were down there 3. Enjoyment of a decent living 4. Because without a company, there is no union" How much time do I have ? Sorry I let something slip by [sarcasism with touch of arrogance frosted over with dry humor] 1. I dont know what your talking about "jungle", dont care, dont get it. I worked 20 years all seasons in N Eastern forests, jungle means nothing to me. Im a mountain boy. 2. When someone believes in the importance of what they are doing they will dodge the flying roofing and try their damndest to - and I quote from one of our famous teachers - "What is wrong with teachers wanting to invest in their own future? I know I want what is best for me. What is wrong with that? Doesnt everyone want what is best for themselves? 3. Yep . Id like to enjoy a decent living 4. I said something somewhere else but I cant find it and really how much time can I put into this. It had something to do with the slow off shoreing so as to not effect the entire population of the country at onces but rather streach it out over 3 decades or so to avoid complete turmoil. I feel this whole thing was well planed out in the eighties, that is why we have economists, that is why they spent so much time in Brazil during break neck inflation periods. That is why our government and corporations spent massive amounts of profits earned running American businesses with American workers to develope what was 3rd world countries - even larger profits - screw your brothers and sisters, show me my money, more money. honest trev - I kinda just answered your question with that last statement. then Ill ask this, where is it everyone thinks the massive money that the American corporations have invested off shore came from ? It couldnt have come from profits earned by employing Union workers could it ? Naw, not a chance. sciguy - I said this awhile back I think it applies some to your question - " OK, If you take your Doctors and Lawyers and other high dollar jobs and compare them to the pay of Unionized workers, Id say the scale is fairly well balanced. Thats providing this 50,000 # were pulling out of nowhere is accurate. Many are below that, and non union jobs fall of the edge of the flat world very fast. We had someone here last year that felt no one deserved to earn even 10 per hour, give it a try." then for the rest you seem to have pulled I guess what I have heard called Cherry picking, I was refering to the multitude of other desk workers. I dont believe we need a new box for cerial, I dont believe we need a milk carton with a plastic bottle top, ect, no I dont believe this stuff is needed but I do realize it employees American and is not a bad thing for that reason alone, unlike the loose nut that feels the death of working class Americans is best. Why dont someone attack people that say that crap ? Anyhow - a few of those you mentioned are true scum that we really do not need, financial advisers, economists, lawyers, I feel these types of jobs are negitive to society for the most part or highest percentage of what they really accomplish for our countrys populations well being. Yes I do feel that way. I also think the health care industry is being way overly greedy and doing something to our country that is unspeakable, as a whole. Yet somehow that is alright, even though its the root of the problem that brought us to this topic in the first place. Anyone ever remember me talking about the distractions that are throw up to get us all at each other throats so we forget the root of the problem ? Oh yea, shut up, we dont want to think about the root of the problem :rolleyes:

Wow, I have to think back, the BMW was never a thought back in the 70's. BMW ? = big deal. Im sure it was cheaper in price but I just cant figure out why :P I seem to remember a car perhaps called a 321i or 32_i was the first BMW rage but most still said "big deal". THe old 2002 was kinda cool looking but reminded of a VW on the inside = big deal. Old Mercedes ? now that I have a brain and stopped following sheep around are a joke, worthless over priced junk. The SL were the only Mercedes to have any form of attractive styling. However that Cadillac was something that would have never turned my head either. Its also interesting to hear those that want to find or use Cadillac and sport in the same sentence. Cadillac was never, never GM's sports division or performance division. They were the quite, silent, smoooooth division. Till recently that is, now Caddys place in the world of GM is a bit of a head scratcher because they are in areas that once belonged to BOP. Wasnt that Seville a B or C body ? it sure looks like it to me. I hated cars during and from that era. One stylist says to another while moving some boxes out of the way to start the weeks work. "I think were on to something here" So its 1978 and I have good job and I look at three cars. A BMW 5 blankity blank blank, a Seville and ..................... a 76 Regency with 30,000 miles, geeze I just cant make up my mind B)

OK ibuyGM, people attack me because I say what they dont want to hear. Thats why someone like you wants to say shut up. I read what you say and know you should shut up. You are not saying anything. Its amusing you think anyone that didnt go to a school that gives money to people called teachers has not learned a thing and has none of what you all call skills. Yet I know how unskillful the average person is, its painful to watch. Millions of Americans walk into offices of some sort everyday and do absolutely nothing, at least not anything that needs to be done. Yet you all seem to think the world owes you something because you went to "college". Its so amusing to hear you talk about - wait- let me do a quote - The ones doing all the complaining on this and topics like this are the anti blue collar people. The ones that feel they are owed a big salary because they went to college, how special. I guess you assume someone like myself has never spent any time around college graduates ? Perhaps you figure I hold all their knowledge and "skills" in awe ? Perhaps you figure I have never learned a thing or developed a "skill" since that last 12th year class ? Then take the not doing anything about it part, that is what organization is all about, doing someting about being underpaid. Thats what I spend time here for, Im doing something about the arrogance that exists in the world where people such as yourself think its OK for more than half the working population of America to be working poor. Like we dont know the revenue thats created by the tasks we perform. So my saying "what makes me worth so much less ?" makes you want to tell me to shut up ? Is it really that hard of a problem to realize that "I" may and do perform a very important task ? I know its easier to walk away than look it in the eye, thats why you want to say "shut up". sciguy - you really do have it all wrong. No one gets or even asks for 15% unless your talking about politicians, school systems, oil companys, utilities, insurance companys,Doctors, lawyers, executives to name a few. Its very hard to get 3% and 3 % of a small paycheck doesnt keep up with anything. Thats why some get really uptight when others start talking like its nothing to give up what people have budgeted to pay out. Expenses and bills are growing rapidly because part of the work force has no problem with the costs while the other part that is hurt from this gets to keep less and less every year. I just dont see whats so hard to understand, unless people just dont realize pay or salary in many areas is just sitting but the work performed is so necessary to everyday life. Once again its not like the money is not out there. Boy I bet that really makes some want to tell me to shut up :lol:

Wow. listen to this arrogant Ahole, you couldnt walk the walk there MR polished finger nails. Your the ones that could'nt compete, your the ones that would be left in the cold with out the tasks that are done by those you degrade as being worthless. Yea, well all be loosers when you knock us down.....but you can its legal.......and we cant knock you down, its illegal.......not that we would want to.....we know the meaning of hardship & hard earned money and do not wish hardship on others, we are humble, you are an arrogant Ahole " I am all for Chinese made cars, I could care less about your well being. I actually hope that the Japanese companies follow suit too, because I think that this will mark the end of something for nothing for the "working class". You will be forced to play on my level, and you will lose BAD!!!!" Your times a comming too Mr. Tic/toc, tic/toc

I just saw a Matador X at the Adirondac Nationals Saturday. That the first Matador in maybe a decade but it was a car show so it doesnt count. the last Fifth Avenues are getting slim now finally, there used to be alot of them. Please dont dis them, I still have my grandfathers last car a 82 NewYorker that became the FIfth Ave in 83 when NYer and Imperial went FWD K'ish. It is one sweet car let me tell you. I never understood luxury cars until I inherited that 82 NYer. So smooth, so quite, so comfortable, the entire world goes away when you sit behind the wheel. Dont see many 124 Spiders anymore unless at a show.

I cant believe this is still going on. I think all trades should be unionized and organized. Standards set by large commitees and then get the jobs done. No one lives at extremely high standards and no one lives at low standards. However there should be no protection for slackers, trouble makers, and a varity of other human waste. We all know the moneys out there for a better standard just look around. Its not being distributed appropriately for the producers. The scale has gotten way out of balance in the past 20+ years. Reg - that has to be one of the first times you have made me laugh {pond scum} I am called that regularly by my loved ones. What I meant by "So tell me again what makes me worth so little". Its a saying I came up with that I believe we all should be asking ourselfs and our employers. I used to be anti union and thought I was superman and I could prove how much more I could do than these other "over paid workers". All I did was got tired, weary, woreout and poor. I used to say "what makes them worth so much ?" It was the wrong question !The correct question should have been "what makes me worth so little ?". Think about it, chew on it for awhile, ponder the possibilities. Then perhaps one day rather than pointing the finger at one of your tax bracket brothers you will look higher up the mountain to the source of the problems and say " hey ! What makes me worth so little? You big fat ocean scum! " So Reg I wasnt implying you said I was worth so little. I can deal with the pond scum thing, I have learned to live with it ;-).

Good posts, Balthazar, Harley and especially Oldsmoboi. I will ignore all the "reasons" the finiky, so refined, anti GM posters that come here to degrade products becasue that is how I see them, they will always cry, complain and degrade, it is their life. Another - Whats wrong with GM and or all American auto manufacturers is "gas crisis" of 1973. Followed by the worst styling years since "Bedrock". Combined with still manufacturing large heavy cars, poor mileage, lots of electrical/computor problems and I guess some poor reliabliity of various items. Now Im still back in the 70's - earliey 80's, mind you. This is when the now new car buyers were the lower income, economy minded used car buyers that found reliablity and fuel economy in Japanese cars. Things have just followed the tone that those times set way back then. Thats where the perception got molded. This is my conclusion from what Ive observed over the decades. As well as some of the stuff that Oldsmoboi stated. All this does not help. The rest of you are just blowing hot air, though I believe styling has been a problem in some models since 90's but then I could say that of many Asian cars too. Same with all you interior freaks, if it doesnt look like a honda or toyota interior it sucks and if it does look like a toyota or honda interior it sucks - OK, we got that one down so lets just stop looking at interiors because the whole interior topic has frankly sucked. Then on a final note I would like to bring attention to the fact that GM is still the worlds largest manufacturer of automobiles and still has sales far exceding what it had when it was at "50%" market share. There is more cars to choose from so this "market share" percentage thing has dropped yet sales are higher. So frankly I believe that this "marker share" is also more hot air and hype and propaganda for the media and yup yup yup yup yup yup yuppies to dramatize. Plus it gives the corporate leaders at GM a tool of distraction, to make share holders and traders grab on to so they ignore that the problem with profits is because the corporate leaders are overpaid, not that sales are high. Lots of hype and smoke screens so eventually all manufacturing operations are off shore, slow but sure, that will tone down the uproar than if they pulled everything at once.

P1800 Estate ?

No Europa ?

"some of those weirder-greenhoused 70s B and C-body BOP coupes" got that covered, litterly down in the garage. assuming you mean with the semi fastback w/ large side windows in the ???? C pillor ?? three side windows in other words ?

There was a Europa locally when I was growing up. I just saw one at the Limerock show. There was a few others some I had forgotten about but I seem to have forgotten again.

Thats sad Caddy, sounds like you would promote going back to the fuedal system. I mean I understand the burger flipper thing but the way you devalue human life and worth is just maybe death campish. There is all kinds of things about each and every job or task that some that can do others cant stand to do. You mention skill level like thats all its about and its so so arogant, some of the most highly skilled jobs are the low pay jobs. Some people attack we the lowly by saying we feel we are owed something but yet everyone that posts on these subjects will act like the college stay entitles them or that they are owed something just for that. You know its true just think about how many times its actually said. Well I spent ____ on my college education and Im underpaid. Well I could look at many of the college boys and wonder what makes them worth a cent and thats a for sure and anyone thats been around knows it. So you dont support pay raises for the lowly but Im sure your good with the latest real estate inflation. the doubled and triples school taxes, the doubled and tripled insurance rates, the doubled and tripled utility rates, the doubled gas price, ect, ect ? Its all so amusing. We just had a post about teachers wages having been "frozen" since sometime in the 90's well guess what, welcome to where so many others in America are, many have even been downgraded. I choose to have a much broader view of human worth and value than you. I believe I am a better man just for that alone. Thanks for the boost you have givin my outlook on myself, I was prior feeling kinda Damien ish. Perhaps you are the anti Christs son ? [that was not a dig that was the truth, I was feeling very lowly for all the horrible things I said about teachers to become the subject of so much redicule and wondering if I was worthy of the air I breath] Look this man is worht 20,000 and this one here is worth 10 times that interesting to be so so so special

I see, thats interesting. I also like your reference to Pony cars because that was what they were called long before this muscle car this and muscle car that became the word on the tip of everyones tounge. However we can picture exactly what everyone is talking about when they say muscle car. We really dont consider the 440 New Yorkers muscle cars, though a ebay seller might try to boast or boost his car by calling luxury muscle, same with Riv which was technically an American Grand Tourer but not really a muscle car because it was heavy and soft sprung. Yea the muscle car thing is as confusing a segment as GT when you think about it. Where does it begin and where does it end ? Early 60's Galaxy, Impala, muscle cars ? grand tourers ? 86 2.8 powered Camaro, muscle car ? Grand Tourer ? 512 Berlinetta Boxer, Muscle car ? Grand Tourer ? Its so confusing. Muscle car is oing to have to have a faily solid defination someday or like a list of cars that make it and cars that dont. I myself dont like the term because I predate it. Pony car I like but then we can pretty much make a list of the Pony cars. Im my opinion the larger Chargers and Torinos do not make the list. I consider Camaro, Cuda, Firebird, Challenger, AMX, Mustang to be Pony cars. but maybe Im worng and GTX and all the larger cars belong there too? Are all Muscle cars grey ?