razoredge

It is a decent styling design. The wheel on the base loaner I had was overly fat, with the flat side, much like our G6 wheel. I had a problem with the foot area by the inner fender. Here in this photo you can see by the passenger carpet, that one side has more leg room than the other and it has an angle on the floor. Great if one leg is shorter than the other and you have a natural twist on that ankle........... :lol: Cant remember any problems in the throttle foot area.......unlike another car I can think of. The G6 coupe is the closest thing we got to the Alpha but it really pales once you get another good look at that Alpha doesnt it ?

could you explain to me what was wrong with these cars ? beside the obvious FWD and certain electronic gremlins I have never been impressed with MB and BMW from this era......forget about Audi.

I understand and agree with what you are saying........but ! We will still always have this increasing population that is not up for technology jobs, we are not going to have an entire population of engineers, technicians, and architects. Besides how many positions are there really? Unfortunantly (so it seems ? ) we still have the full spectrum of humans, much unchanged since the beginning of history. Somehow placeing the "unwanted" in trailor parks or deep inside the inner urban areas and throwing welfare checks at them doesnt seem like the answer in this here "evolved, modern, compassionate, tolerant, bleeding heart so long as I cant see it from my house - - Society "....... all the while complaining about how "that area has gone all to hell" Ah gee.........I wonder why ? We need to realize we need a society that places white collar and blue collar people back together. Working together for a common goal and that is the best country for all to raise their children in. Not a country full of white collar workers trying to figure out how to perform politically correct genecide on the laboring work force.

Gee, I dont know ? To a large degree that is already happening. Good post carbiz, but myself.........I say screw "free trade" it has only helped other countries mass populations and hurt ours. After all, that is the purpose of having a government "to serve and protect". Where in the hell did free trade serve and protect the majority of the American population ?

This was an honest, excellent post. My sisters family still has one of these 80's I6 gasoline Mercedes, they have had it since early 90's, bought from origional owner, they had the engine expensively rebuilt due to the fact that is was a traveling bug screen. That was at what I consider low miles. Its has a nice leather interior and all the appearences of a luxury car. Lots of things no longer work. That was 5 years ago. All I know about it now is that my nephew is or was using it. Our LSS got props for being "a far better can than our Mercedes". They drove it on a trip into the mountains with the kids, while my wife and I drove their C4. They did buy a new Mercedes but I know nor have heard much about it. They, like so many other successful people need to maintain a degree of statis quo. My idea of the 80's luxury car would be a 82-89 NYer/Fifth Avenue. Thats what it was still about, soft luxury, sit down and let the harshness of the world go away. Had American industry totally abandoned this idea of "luxury car" they would have had an irrate customer base and showed signs of trouble much earlier. What few CTS that are seen around here are driven by successful mid age people. SO I dont see what the problem is. Seems like some are just so angry that some Americans still want a FWD land yacht called or indicated as - Deville We met one old fella at the Cadillac dealership while shopping for our G6, that told us flat out "Im going to buy that Escalade", He was driving a XK8, when asked about it he said "yea, I only drive it every once in a while". I suppose I should have lectured him about how if he bought that Escalade he would be raising Caddys ABA and worse yet, would be ranking himself in a stereo type with "gangsta/rappers and phat heads"................

Yes I did, probably nearly 30 years ago in Pensacola. My fathers sister family lived in Gulf Breeze. We went down every other summer. My Uncle worked on the Base, civilian, ex sailor. I saw the Air Force Thunderbirds once too. Air shows are alot of fun

For the topic - Blacks have always been very influencial on American culture and pretty good bridge builders, through various art forms, between cultures, though there is some delay in the reaction. We already saw the Lacrosse commercial that identified with a successful Black woman. Good commmercial for its intent. It is the one I complained about not showing the car in action. The stereotype of Black "rappers/gangsters" I think most of us are able to see beyond. Of course they set trends for youth.......but so did the hard rock and metal bands, country musicians, ect, ect, ect, bla, bla, bla. We all know there has been aspects of all and any trends to be questionable. The most important thing is the largest percentage grow up one day and become a contributing part of society. Eventually parents, that get their turn to try to keep their own children on line.

anyhow, as far as I know, typically in modern non bench seats, hip and butt location is mostly predetermined by seat design and dont move around. However most people move their shoulders and elbows around a bit. anyhow, all above points taken in I'd say was a very legitimate concern...even with ignoring the many benefits of a wider track or they could just half bake it in typical fashion

good points Croc must be the ?door panels/arm rests? in DTS keep hip room narrow but shoulder room is larger ? there is more or equally important issues with width too. Track: longer wheelbase w/same track is going to handle worse, wont fly in the US market when magazines do their BMW, Mercedes comparisions.

Good points about the base Lacrosse interior, most GM cloth interiors of this decade. Your throttle issue with Lacrosse ? - one need look no further than "fly by wire throttle"....so silly...so unbelievably brilliant... dazzling brilliance I think the 3800 has more torque, I believe they are very comparable engines Where did you get the 200lb's extra for the engine figures ? Seems high. I looked for engine weights a few years back for a discussion but came up with little. I think I found the 38 weighed in the 500's. All the 3.5* will probably be wore out before I determine if they are reliable. I am actually considering one of these Intrigues for my daughter but I know she would rather have a early/mid 90's Regal GS.........so would I.......

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I dont think so, two weeks ago I could of had my choice of 2 Solstice or two sky. Problem with the Solstice for me is they have the inventory artifically low and that "under $20,000 roadster" we were promised, is now "over twenty" for starters but is showing up well loaded and priced just under 27,000. That I find deceptive and a bit of a turn off. Much of the story will be told by sales come, next summers end.

I only read your relpies guys, but like it or not, somewhere, someone or many people at GM are overlooking some very basic, taken for granted, design features. I honestly belief we have people there trying to "reinvent the wheel". There are problem, there are no excuses for, like it or not. I'll say no more.

That is a good point but they do need to pay attention in China as well. Maybe this years NA auto shows will reveil the same or similar car. I like the HVAC vents in this car. I think its kinda neat how they did it. Their long and thin, kinda go with the Cadillac theme. I wish they would round the front corners of the front seats like the rear seats. 120 " WB is a must, BMW 750 is 123.2 I hope they widen the track. Simply lenghening the WB could upset the handling dynamics of the car. This may fly in China but if it comes to the US market, the auto magazines will be all over it. Remember if this goes to STS is will also affect STS-V and a wider track is a must. This also benefits shoulder, hip and trunk.........but not weight.

I suppose I should say "thats not nice" "I really dont appreaciate that" but no, I'll consider all that has transpired and say........."alrighty then !" and turn and walk away

Just to answer this: (and more) I really do get freaked out. I can sit here and talk, ask questions, listen and read but attach a photo of a man with his pants nearly off, combined with that connotation and it freaks me out. I revisted that thread because I was posting on those same pages. Then it got real big and I had to open my mouth, then it quickly deteriorated. Its obvious by rereading it that there was more eating me than just that topic (no sence in getting into that). In retrospect I really think with the sexual connotation is was a bad thread. I even said a thing on it about women I should not have. Its been asked, what if it was girls?... I was thinking, what if there was girls? I know some do get upset when women are viewed as "sex objects", I must say now... I know where their comming from......... .....please... laugh everyone. There was comments in other posts about me having problems with barely clothed men. Let me tell you I have seen more wang than most, excluding probably Doctors. 6 years of wrestling put me in long weigh in lines with over 20 schools per year worth of naked wrestling teams. Think that would make this recent twist on nearly naked men give me the heebeegeebee's ? I do know, I can say, no doubt, Im straight. We did have a very [no insult] "limp wristed" heavyweight on the team. He even had that [no insult] speach thing going on. I use those terms because they were litterly the clues. He went on to be a male nurse, good guy, I was one of the few that was friendly to him. We also had a group of what were called back then [no insult] Jesus Freaks. I was the only one from outside their group that talked to them as well as everybody else. I was chastised for this by the "in crowd" for my not being "cool". I had my arguements/fights when they would start saying bad things about others.........any of this sound fimilar yet ? Everyone knows I have been put through the ringer around here. I need to say right now that OC is not one thats done that, a little but nothing too serious. We have had our moments and are divided in our views by a huge body of land as well as many tax brackets. None the less like everyone else here, I always looked forward to reading what he thought and knew of things. He always laid out a clear view of his points, some members here do not. If there is something in a post that I feel has an alternative factor, Im going to bring it out, my "alternative factors" are not popular and most people are more comfortable ignoring them, that really gets me sparky. For a long time it seemed like this was a place where the educated were going to play cerebral target practice on high school grads that had a different view of the world. I took it all, never contacted a moderater once. Had some unbelieveable degrading comments thrown at me or "the likes of my kind". Not once did a moderator step in. I knew it was done under the idea that I would get mad and leave, thing was I was one of the few that actually bought, owned and drove GM's, I really did have a huge interest and attraction to this site. I also really need people with some degree of intellegence and spark to interact with, even if its "fightin". This has been a great place to excercise my mind, and learn, unfortuantly at times I have gotten aggressively defensive at the cost of others. I use alot of sarcasm and tongue in cheek comments, that makes me hard to read. I might be a bit like a pit bull and the more I go the more wound up I get.....I hate pit bulls too...thats it... self loathing... Bad thread, bad timing, bad reaction by me, bad reactions by others, those involved directly in the topic handled it better than those after the fact. I should have listened to them but I was already wound up...and no one was "hearing me" because of my attitude. I think in summary its safe to say we have learned that we all have our limitations of what we can deal with. On that topic we discovered mine. That was a big "too much information there... guys"

To much drama guys over a simple reaction. Sometimes the truth is not a popular position, I was offended, its that simple, and my being offended, offended others. Doesnt make much sence. It was a bit of a loaded topic anyhow, very exploitive of women in the first place, perhaps not a good topic. To answer one question - We were both giving a warning at the same time in an identical letter. One I missed because BV's PM bumped it and I got it after reading and responding to BV's PM...anyhow... the offer was open to having the warning removed if we straightened up. I felt it was fair enough though I would not have wanted OC to recieve a warning, he simply had a reaction to my reaction. It was a deadlock problem. Z did the right thing because it wasnt going to end. My problem was not with OC is was the pictures, he just happened to be the name on the post. On my behalf its too bad people cant see or understand what I was talking about or in other instances can not see both sides either. That is one thing I do, is see both sides and Im not stuck in any time zone, thats silly. I look very deeply into everything and always express a point that I might feel is being overlooked. I have an unusual way of expressing myself and at times I get harsh in effort to drive the point, I am not alone on that one. I have come along ways here on account of some of you guys on these issues, I still at the same time have a line. I wrote OC a long, what I feel is quite personal letter, I really hope he can absorb some of its message because I sure as hell would never want anyone to leave because of my alternate and strong willed position. I know for a fact that at least from time to time when being serious I do make a few good cases. As does OC. The volumn of negitive insulting stuff thrown at me has been enormous over the years. I have never asked or hoped for someone to be banned. I always approach the issues myself, thus my lack of popularity. Its OK. So lets please show some of that open mindedness Im accused of not having, chill out and hope OC reads and understands some parts of my letter, most importantly for him not to leave.

easily "nuff said" when you havent been there, right ? Imagine that ? Everything can be wrapped up in one simple statement, who'd a thunk it could be so easy, so simple ?

Others need to respect that some here may not want so many thread turning into a gay thread. I find it somewhat disrespectful while at other times its not so bad. It seems there are certain lines that need not be crossed. For me I already have shown one of mine. Apparently the gay population feels their line is more important ???????? This thread was not locked solely because of me, Im just the one that had nerve to say something. My "banter" was not useless, I was polite and to the point. How come the gay people can get mad at me for not wanting to see gay implied photos but I can not get upset about having to see them ? There are plenty of places to enjoy sexual content, perhaps this was not the place for this type of topic anyhow ? Seems to me we had a photo of a bare breasted Monroe deleted and Silvester got yelled at for cartoons of ladies in nighties. Do we have a double standard here ?

My statement is not ludicrous.........its reality !......that is what happens, that is what has happened all across the United States, if you are in the line of fire you are a victim, if you cant see it from your house you say "look at all the white collar jobs, quit acting like victims" Whats a 40 something year old laborer supposed to do with a college, mow the lawns, mop ? good! great! but how many lawn mower/ mopers are these colleges going to need ? What kind of family supportive jobs do you think there are for 40+- men/woman in the hunting,lakes "tourism" industry......their entry level, minimum wage highschool/college summer/weekend jobs. Whats a 40+- blue coller labor man or woman supposed to do for a hospitol ? Well the girls can get some schooling and be nurses, I know many (yarite! a few) that have around here, its a crap pay job, laughable in fact, much more money at a Walmart warehouse. Its ruff work too, takes a certain person to watch people die........but thats not worth paying good money for, more important people in the "food chain" that need that money. Are you going to suggest that a 40 something blue collar laborer should put 6-8 years into college and become a professor, doctor, computer programer ? How many jobs is that if it were possible.......100 ? What makes you guys think that at 40 or 50 something someone could go to college, come out at nearly 50 or more and compete in the job field with fresh young "yes" people ? It wouldnt be worth the ink to fill out an application because as soon as your not looking the ap is going in the "file". What makes you guys think that more dumb mothers like "us" are not being born each and every day that are not going to take to the "books" or be able to concentrate at that level to be successful in the only industries that American seems to be interested in keeping. It amazes me that some people who stress so hard for acceptance from others for not being wired the same, can turn around and not understand that all people are not wired the same..??.. We needed that vast array of various job opportunities, IT WORKED. Our government should have never allowed it to all go straight into the dumper under the presumption of "capitolism" when it was clearly "wealthy greed" Its simple, it was wealthy greed, it was short sited, no one in charged gave a damn anyhow, it happened, theres no stopping it, no going back, its here and this is what it looks like, its in your face, yet no one wants to see it for what it is, instead would rather throw words like "entitled", "victim", "legacy", "looser(when no one listening)", "that il teach ya for not going to college(when no one listening)" "you got what you deserved (when no ones listening)" And heres the proof of only seeing the end result and excuseing the initial action "It was a hell-hole then....and it sounds like it's even worse now." wonder what makes things nice ? wonder what makes things ugly ? wonder if decent jobs has anything to do with it ? pretty ludicrously complicated... taint it ?

It is a masterpiece. Musically, vocally, and for its message. There is no other song, ever that remotely resembles it. I think it would have made the classic masters weep... its some kind of powerful. Geoff Tates passage in the middle of "Child of Fire", to this day still sends a chill up my spine Let it Be and Yesterday were pretty powerful but they did not have the vocal passion of Tate.........no one does, unless you look to the Opera but thats even different, more training than raw emotion.

OC....you're out of line. And I don't care if this thread gets locked. you took out nearly a full internet page worth of gay advertisement get over yourself.... the bombardment of giant size multiple post "men Id like to screw" pictures just started you calling someone egotistical......priceless ! but forget that, where did I say it was directed at just me ? Im the only one that has any balls, you think Im the only straight guy thats offended by pictures of guys by guys that want to screw guys ? Who do you think you are? segregate the friggin thread then, I would never go to a gay picture fest and try to "shock" everyone, of course I couldnt anyhow, just proves your superiority ey ? I would leave you all at piece, much the reason I have stayed away from the "pictures of yourself" thread that turned totally gay and with all the nonsensical posts filling up an insane amount of pages it would take hours just to find a picture of someone

Dont any of you guys, besides Mustang, get into Savatage ?

I love green 68 fastbacks..........I just wouldnt want a little bloody hole in my furry little friend......... Yours Truely: Butterknife

Very very interesting what happened, what went wrong ? Those seats just scream "come...sit down !" that rifle is beautiful..... background should have been in the Mountains with a Mountain Lion......and bullit proof vest of course.