ponchoman49

This is a Riviera? Good thing it's China only!

The fact that Lexus is pricing this generic throwaway clone to there other offerings for the fantasy land figure of $105,000 is just pure and total arrogance on Toyotas part. The sad part is that the uninformed sheep that have money growing out of there pockets will probably snatch every one of these boring blobs right up.

The exterior is typical Toyota generic yawn inducing material but the interior is actually decent.

A 2007 Grand Prix 3800 doesn't weight 3750. Typical delivered weight is usually 3450-3500 lbs The 2008 G8 isn't going to have the 3800 as it's base engine which is rated at 30 highway in several applications The G8 will have the 3.6 liter Global V6 which in the smaller, lighter Aura with a 6 speed automatic gets only 28 highway Going by the new mileage ratings I would gestimate the V6 will see 18/26 and the V8 will be 16/23 which to the unknowing average citizen is going to look very poor to say a 4 cylinder Malibu or Camry which won't be much smaller in size to the new rear drive Zetas. With Bush's new mileage standards, these mid to large sized RWD family sedans are going to be a harder sell IMO which is why GM is playing it safe.

I agree about the interior but saying the exterior is worse than the Toyota is stretching things a bit. My biggest wish list on these trucks would be a higher quality interior and availability of the smooth 3.6 liter V6 and a 6 speed automatic or manual.

Whats wrong with some reg in the logo? Why does everything need to be so dull and monotone these days?

More and more vehicles are starting to look like Asian clones of each other. Interiors are all black, gray or tan, character lines, fender flares and bodyside moldings and chrome accents are few and far between and the only way to tell what the hell your looking at is the grille or badge and even that doesn't always work. The American car has all but dissappeared with the relentless drive to globilize everything and produce Toyota sales numbers by copying there bland boring styling. It's a shame that with all the wonderful advancements being made in vehicle powertrains/transmisions, suspension technology etc that todays society has almost totaly lost the art of style and color!

And thats the root of my dissapointment with these new Holden clones. They don't look like Buicks and Pontiacs. More like Asian toasters with Pontiac/Buick grilles slapped on. Talk about saving money.

I would probably rank the cars as follows with a comment next to each entry: 1) Aura XR- Best looking of the bunch, awesome 3.6/6 A trans, sharp handling, roomy back seat, good price/warrenty, customer service, needs more available features and a few interior issues fixed 2) Altima 2.5 SL pkg- Fine powertrain 4 or V6, CVT, mileage, exterior appearance, features for money, front seat bottoms need more padding, some minor interior assembly gaffes 3) Accord SE V6 AT- great handling, smooth quiet engines and updated trannys, fine build quality, interior a littel dated, exterior blends in too much in a crowd, brakes need improvement 4) Milan V6 Premier- pleasant styling, capable V6, capable handling, interior room and seat comfort top notch, fit and finish good, available AWD, lacks some features of others here, could use 25 more HP and better trans response 5) Fusion SE V6- same as 4 6) Impala LT3- Front seat room, trunk space, engine power (3900), E85, price good for what you get, handles competent, front seats need more padding, no floor shift indicators or glove box light, interior rather plain, engine noise, needs 6 speed auto option, especially with SS version, no telescoping wheel 7) LaCrosse CXS- very comfortable seats, lots of features for money, exterior appearance(grille excluded), 3.6 is smooth, quiet underway, telescoping wheel available, dated 4 speed auto, some dated exterior cues, especially headlights and grille, manual seat recliners have no place in a 30K car, rear seat legroom less than others here Mazda 6 VE- sharp handling, exterior styling good, engine power good but not as good as some others here, engine noise not well muffled on V6, interior a bit small, trunk small, lacks some features of others 9) Malibu LTZ- good value for money, decent handling, great highway MPG with 3500, decent power, some nice features like fold flat front seat, telescoping column, power pedals, warrenty, chrome pkg looks sharp, electric steering still needs work, front end appearance needs work, no rear seat armrest or overhead assist handles, no glovebox light, engine noise intrusive at times, only a 4 speed automatic 10) G6 w 3500 Sport pkg- same as 9 but add lack of interior colors in cloth trim 11) Sonota SE- warrenty, engine power(V6), 5 speed automatic shifts well, build quality generally good, looks too much like an old gen Accord, resale value poor, some interior materials questionable, interior smells like recycled waste, must get power driver seat for best comfort, lack of options, trunk smaller than some 12) Optima EX 4 cyl- decent styling that sets no new standards, features for price, mileage reasonable, warrenty, build quality, V6 lowest power of the group, questionable interior fabrics, no temp guage, interior smells like recycled garbage, small trunk, poor resale value and long term quality? 13) Galant SE- V6 spunky, interior pretty roomy, good handling, some interior bits cheap, questionable reliability, gas mileage worse than others, lack of some features, no bodyside mlds, road noise and tire thump, smaller dealer network 14) Grand Prix GT- still looks like a Pontiac, warrenty, front seat comfort, engine power good along with highway mileage, handles well, very dated powertrain, lacks some features, cramped back seat, rear seat back is hard as a park bench, headroom, engine noise, dash plastics, ergonomics, rear visibility 15) Avenger R/T- distinctive, a few neat features, 3.5 V6/6 A trans, handling(R/T), cheap interior with lots of hard plastic, cheap seat material, rock hard seats, noisy to drive, interior feels cramped, expensive when optioned up, best powertrain setup not offered on lower trim levels, rear visibility poor, trunk small 16) Sebring Limited- same as 15 but with horrendous styling added 17) Camry doesn't matter- good V6 power, very bland, generic styling, pig-like grille, no bodyside moldings, terrible shifting tranny, many consumer complaints of poor quality control, many gaps and poor fits in interior, small trunk, less headroom than before, lackluster base engine, NAV option needs work, cheap mouse fur seat fabric, ho hum handling, gas mileage in real world less than sticker, expensive in all but low level CE editions, interior squeaks and rattles In reality, none of these cars is perfect and every one of them either lacks something I like, has uncomfortable seats, looks generic and blah, costs too much, has indifferent reliability or poor shifting transmission etc

The 2 door looks like a puking ladybug and the 4 door is just a shrunkin Camry. The interior is a real pile too!

It looks just like a Lexus LS series and very bland.

It's a rip off of the Lexus LS series car and very derivative for that matter.

Yikes, the new Vue weights 4400 lbs. How is a detuned 164 HP 2.4 Ecotec or even the detuned 215 HP 3500 going to deal with all that weight? And i'm not overly fond of the Asian/Korean like styling either, not that the current one was brilliant. It also would have been nice to see the 6 speed automatic at least as an option on the Auras 3500 XE models.

V8 that is worse on gas + asian toaster styling + zero traction in snow and ice + higher price tag and limited availabilty = not my cup of tea for Pontiacs flagship. GM should come up with there own version of the Zeta with Pontiac styling, available AWD, full production capacity because it's made here and lots of V6 models because gas isn't going down. These stop gap fill in cars do little for me. The Grand Prix is hardly stunning but it at least looks like a Pontiac and offers some flair for a reasonable price and reasonable economy.

And the terribly named Asian toaster styled G8 might just follow in it's footsteps with very low initial production numbers, terrible V8 gas mileage and 35K plus price tag for that model. Hopefully when production shifts to NA it will have more Pontiac like styling and some character.

Now the G6 sedan joins the coupe with no bodyside moldings, a total dumb ass move. This is just an excuse for GM to make more profit on the car by charging some rediculous $1200 or more with it bundled in an option package with things the customer doesn't want. The coupe doesn't even offer the molding as an option and looks all the more plain and bland as a result. Dumping the silly Panoramic roof was the only smart thing they did for 2008.

Those still put out 225 HP and WAY more torque than the current detuned series III 3800.

Thats a heady price tag for sure. These cars will do nothing but go up in value in the coming years. They were capable of litterally melting the tires off the rims and was one of the most fearsome cars of it's era. It's too bad so few stylish cars like this exist these days.

I think several factors are playing in on the excessive noise of the 3800 Lucerne. The G-body in general as others have stated does have a tendancy to vibrate at certain speeds. Litterally every one of them seems to do it at one speed or another. This tells me that the G-body resonates a bad frequency when either a certain speed is reached or a certain engine RPM is met. Buick V6's have an off idle roughness due to there 90 degree nature and old design. Balance shafts were introduced for the 1988 model year to help curb this. But we must remember that the old H-body LeSabres/Deltas has much lower body/frame stiffness and thus absorbed what vibration was left from the 3800 motor. This is why I firmly believe the current super stiff G-body needs very special attention to engine/transmission mounts, exhaust routing and muffler decibels. There is also the curiosity of the 2006-2007 Lucerne version of the 3800. It is now in Series III guise yet puts out 3 less Hp than the smaller LaCrosse/GP at 197 and 3 less torque also at 227. It is even worse when compared to the 1995-2005 Series II version of this engine which made 205 HP and 230 torque. The Lucerne weights in at nearly 3800 lbs in base CX form and 3900 or so with the CXL trim. The only axle used with the Lucerne is the lazy 2.86:1 gear which is there to help offset the extra 300-400 lbs of weight for highway mileage. Getting off the line is going to be tougher for a less powerful engine with lazy gears in a heavy full size sedan which is going to increase noise some. The Lucerne is geared for an ultra quiet interior with very low wind noise and road noise. The one negative aspect of this is that the old 3800 is going to be heard much easier than before over the serenity of the cabin hush. At a guess and hunch, I would be willing to bet that GM skimped a bit on the total quiet tuning thing with the Lucerne to keep the base price under 26K for it's introduction in 2006 with common parts bin exhaust systems and engine/tranny mounts but I could be wrong on some of that. I can confirm however that the Lucernes exhaust is louder than my 2000 LeSabre and any older 90's LeSabres/88's when you are outside of the car and the engine is revved up. It has a more sporty snap to it which goes against the whole quiet tuning thing. Perhaps a visit to the muffler shop wouldn't hurt to see if a quieter exhaust system is offered. I would also keep pestering GM about this. They have a tendancy to usher in improvements in the middle and end of a given cars production run to try and cut down on customer dissatisfaction/complaints. The 3 Lucernes I drove were all 2006 models. I have yet to try out a 2007 or soon to be 2008 to see if the problem is any different. Of course the easiest fix would have been to offer the 3.6 liter DOHC V6 as in the LaCrosse CSX. That engine in any body I have driven is a marvel for smoothness and quietness that rivals the best from overseas but thats GM for ya!

Of all the changes to the extra std equipment, I really can't comprehend why alloy wheels and a split folding rear seat weren't included. Also the more expensive CXL and CXS especially should have power seat recliners on both front seats. Some may like still having the old 200 HP 3800 around but I would have been more impressed to see a quiet tuned 3500 with 224 HP made std and the 252 HP 3.6 with more torque as the CXS engine. The new grille is indeed an improvement and much overdue.

I find it quite interesting that a new grille and slightly different interior color make such a splash as anything new or revamped. Years ago most every car got a new grille, tail lights, trim, colors and interior tweaks on a YEARLY basis. Now we must wait until the product is at the end of it's cycle to get a different grille and this is supposed to be significant. Also Buick didn't go far enough with this car. The tail lights would have benefitted from a horizontal design from Buicks archives, the 21/31 mpg 3500 with 224 HP should be the std engine with quiet tuning instead of the old 200 HP 3800. The 3.6 desperately needed the upgrades the Aura/G6 version got with 12 more HP and more importantly 26 extra torque. And those 90's headlights should NEVER have been allowed in the first place, let alone on a 2008 car.

I have driven several Lucerne 3800's and have had a lot of experience with G-body LeSabres and Park Aves and the older 90's H-body LeSabres and Bonnevilles. When comparing the H-body cars like the Bonneville and LeSabre, I did find that the Buick and Olds versions were quieter overall due to different exhaust tuning. GM also investing some money into the 3800 during the 1999 model year with new heads and injectors that resulted in a smoother and lower idle and noticeably quieter operation. The raspiness of the 95-early 99 3800's gave way to a muted moan that was more pleasing to the ears. Fast forward to the G-body LeSabre/Park Ave. My 2000 LeSabre did exhibit a slight shudder and roughness when first accelerating but was smooth thereafter. A few 2001-2002 Park Aves didn't seem to do this. I had a 2005 LeSabre for a rental and it was easily the smoothest and quietest of the 3800 G-bodies I have driven. No shudder or roughness at all. Imagine my surprise then when all 3 Lucernes I test drove had what I can only describe as untypical 3800 noise. They all exhibited the off idle shudder, were noisy when floored and had raspy sounding exhausts with the car in park, drivers door open and foot nudging the gas pedal revving the engine. This leaves me to believe that the exhaust design on this car is definately one factor in the dissapointing amount of noise this engine exhibits along with the engine mount design. It is a known fact that Buick V6 engines are very sensative and partial to good motor mount design. The old carbed Buick 3.8(231 CID) V6's of the 80's were notorious for killing motor mounts. Litterally every one I drove or owned or sold through our old dealership had a broken drivers side engine mount which caused a major shudder as the engine lifted upon accelleration. Napa made an aftermarket hard rubber replacement mount that made a big difference in the way this engine felt when driving and accelerating. The carbed 3.0 liter V6 from 1982-1985 in the front drive cars required a special mounting system to obtain an acceptable smoothness compared to the Chevy 60 degree 2.8 of the same era. Not that we can really compare todays 3800 Series III to the old carbed V6's but it is interesting to note that even though this engine has been totally revamped compared to that time era, it still suffers if the mounting setup and exhausts aren't perfectly setup. I would definately pursue the exhaust and mounting system in your Lucerne and possibly take it to several different dealers until an acceptable remedy is reached.

Calling these models Super is just GM trying as usaul to fool the consumer into thinking theese are significanlty improved or new models which they aren't. Wouldn't the same results and way less money have been spent if Buick just added the 292 HP version of the Northstar to the CSX, added a telescoping column and silver finish to the center stack and given the LaCrosse a much needed new grille and just badged the V8 model GS?

There must be something wrong with your Riviera 3800 SC if a 3900 lb Lucerne with a detuned 3800 and lazy 2.86:1 gears felt quicker. The CX and CXL 3800's I drove felt sluggish from 35-55 and were only good for 8.8-9.0 seconds 0-60. They were noisy at full throttle and roared and mileage was less than my 2000 LeSabre at around 24 combined. Overall I was dissapointed with the 2 Lucerne 3800 cars I drove compared to my old 2000 LeSabre Custom with Grand Touring suspension and 3.05:1 gears. My LeSabre's 3800 felt less strained, was quieter and consistantly got 31-32 on pure highway runs compared to 29-30 with the Lucernes. That is the beef I have with the current Lucernes equipped with 3800's. More noise at full throttle, lower mileage and slower accelleration compared to the previous gen LeSabre which had 8 more HP and 3 extra lbs ft of torque. And a properly tuned and running Riv SC from 1996-1999 ran 0-60 in 6.8-7.0 seconds and had buckets full of bottom and mid range torque so I would look further into that.

I can see this selling like about 100 cars a year!