FUTURE_OF_GM

LOL... It's no wonder you advanced so well in GM with that nose. (BTW, I might have "bad taste" for liking the Terrain, but at least I'm not a poser in a BMW 'activicar')

Anybody remember the Chevy Borrego concept? Boy, was GM spot on for this trend?!?! Too bad theey weren't smart enough to actually execute the plan. BTW, that thing (the Acura) looks half-assed and hideous to me.

But the asians are superior.... So we dare not ask them (or beg them, in the case of the media vs. Detroit) to phase out divisions. Not to mention, Japan, a country that IS superior to america, is way too smart to ever let its core industries fail. (unlike americant) As for the car... Well, I see some old Malibu/G6 in the nose... A lot of Accord in the nose.... Some Stratus in the profile... But, it's a Subaru so it's the MOSTEST GREENEST car producer EVAR!!!, so it'll sell well. (And I'm not even counting in their ties to god (you know, TOYOTA) or their BIGGEST market's brand loyalty (yep, lesbians are a loyal bunch))

Holy son-of-Civic, Batman... That said, KUDOS to Kia because I actually like it... A LOT! It's like an actual appealing version of the Civic. (Something Honda can't seem to pull off, even in Si (!!!!!!1111!!!) trim)

The Delorean wasn't a Pontiac.

So THIS is what happens when a retarded Lexus mates with a rejected Mercedes design.

You'd rather be seen in an X6? LOL.

Obviously, share isn't everything... My point is; the company is SO weak and SO embattled in the eyes of the public that if it starts to just GIVE AWAY share, it'll NEVER return to good health. It'll instead, likely die a slow death. (I think this is one reason why Wagoner was always so cautious about quick change) GM will NEVER be able to "do a 180" in the eyes of the public, no matter how few brands and how good the product is. Even if the public allowed that, the media would NEVER let it happen. If you cut some limbs off the tree, it'll likely grow. However, if you cut the roots out from under the tree, it quickly dies and falls taking everything around it down as well (suppliers, dealers, etc.)

Do you just copy and paste this post in every topic or do you actually type it out every time?!?!?! BULL$h!! To those of us who KNOW the history of the brands, it isn't (I guess you don't know the history too well) So they're going to do this by selling through 1/4 of the brands to roughly 50% of the market? Wouldn't it be better to FINALLY right the brands (READ: not make the same damn model for every division) and target THE WHOLE market? LAME... BULL$h!! Corvette is suspended indefinitely, Camaro will likely DIE when Zeta dies with NO replacement (DO you guys re4ally think Alpha will progress if GM goes through Ch. 11 or Ch. 7?) GMC only sells to old timers? Pontiac, which until recently, (I'm not sure about currently) had the YOUNGEST average buyers age of any GM division only sells to old timers? Saturn only sold to OLD people? Look around you... Most of the people on this board are sub 30 and the board has already expressed it's overwhelming preference (via Camino's poll) for the Pontiac division. For the LAST time... No one WANTS 1965 to come back... No one ever ASKED for 1965 to come back.... And, as far as I know, NO ONE expected it.. No kidding?!? Yes they will... GM's legacy will live on through people like me. (You know, YOUNG preservationists)

Cobalt SS The reason: 1) It performs better and 2) and most importantly, the 3 series is like an asshole, everyone (especially people who are big assholes) seems to have one lying around. Now, if we were talking an M3 or M5, then my mind would probably change a little easier. P.S. Oh.. And then there's this: Used to be a guy in my old complex that had one of these with a crappy exhaust system. Would tach it out in first all the way through the parking lot. Had I brought my gun to my apartment, I swear to God I would've been poppin' off shots at him. MOST ANNOYING SOUNDING MOTOR EVER!!!!!! (The only motor I can think of that sounds worse would be a crotch rocket)

LMFAO!!! So insane, but I can see the parallels.

This is one of the last signs of the apocalypse for fundamentalist Christians... Me... Well, I really couldn't care less. The country is falling apart right now, the last thing I care about is who's screwin' who. As far as what I think of the issue in general. Well, I am a Christian and I do believe that marriage should be a bond between a man and a woman (as the bible states). HOWEVER, I do NOT think that MY God would ever condone his followers intentionally trying to regulate the lives of, or dscriminate against any of his children. Therefore, I'm fine with it, so long as it isn't a "marriage" I do believe that same sex couples should have the same benefits available as traditional married folk. I have a dear friend who is in a same sex relationship. He also has MS and cannot (under NC law) have access to his partners (yes, they had a ceremony in another state) insurance benefits that would greatly benefit his MS. I think that's a load of and it needs to be corrected.

True that... I actually have taken a strange liking to the coupe. But it in NO way conveys the image of a Pontiac, Mitsu or Mazda. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the owner of said Accord would hiss and scowl at you for the mere suggestion of such a similarity.

To bad we can't just take people like this out back and shoot 'em while they're young. (OF COURSE, I'm kidding.... Why would you think I'm serious about any aspect of that? Is it the target pattern on my wall, the plethora of guns handily available in my closet? Is it the rope I have hanging on the chair? Nahhhhhhh.... :AH-HA_wink:)

FTW!

Okay, 1) I don't deny that the REAL Pontiacs are few and far between (thus my support for a niche line up) 2) I don't really see why customers being attracted to the DEAL are an issue... Hyundai and Kia make an entire business out of this. Not to mention, for the average buyer who just wants an appliance, OF COURSE the deal is going to be a big part of the equation. I'll give you the Mazda 3 and DEFINITELY Mitsu... But the Accord V6?!!? LOL. But we cannot expect Pontiac to be a volume division and embody the spirit of the G8. So, GM needs to make up it's mind one way or the other. My point is: Pontiac still has the potential to be both.

I still highly doubt the sale of Buick.... (Especially given the source)

My question is, and always has been; why the f*ck are these "brand managers" allowed to run GM. They know nothing of the business.

My question is; WHAT IS THE LOGIC OF CLOSING DOWN THE BRAND? I will not be happy until someone gives me a logical reason... It makes absolutely NO sense to kill you second best selling car division in times when cars are becoming popular again... FURTHERMORE, it makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to spend 10 years worth of time and money to try and shut a division down as opposed to saving it. What a MONUMENTAL waste of money?!?!

That right there speaks VOLUMES about the quality of leadership at GM. +1 I agree. *Fixed

Well, look at that... The thread isn't even 2 pages old when someone comes in and starts insulting C&G's "second class citizens" Yep... All those G8s, GTOs, Firebirds, Trans Ams, Catalinas, Solstices, Fierros, Supercharged Vibes, Bonneville SSEi, Firehawks, blah-blah, blah-blah.... THEY WEREN'T PERFORMANCE -or- EXCITEMENT (111!!!!!!11!11!) Yep, we were all FOOLED into thinking they were exciting vehicles I just feel so f*cking stupid for believing the hype for the line of GXP vehicles, or listening to Car & Driver when they said the GP GXP was the best FWD performer ever made or loving the 6000 for it's forward thinking performance. Damn, guys... Thanks for the wake up call. I'll be sure to hold the opinion of people who have probably never owned a V8 or performance car high on my list of next purchases. *wink* FWIW, Mazda lost it's appeal when it started feeding all its models high dosages of Prozac.

Looks like the latest "Barbie Jeep" (except in SCREAMIN' yellow)

I figured product planners had the ultimate power. As in; they submit a plan to the board (based on market research) and the board either approves or denies the plan. I did not think the board could single-handedly make decisions like this. (As in, no one else was included in the decision) And, if this is true, why on earth would they continue to invest in the division until 2015? Seems like a waste of resources to me. (I know about the cost to buy out dealers, but surely it isn't more costly than investing in new product for the division for an additional 10 years?!) Not to mention, that product that came during the additional 10 years, if executed correctly, could've done WONDERS for said division and it's image. Again... The lack of leadership ability and COMMON SENSE of General Motors just astounds me... *shakes head* Talk about squandering away an empire.

According to GMI the GM board apparently made the decision to shut Pontiac down by 2015 a few years ago... One of the biggest critics of that decision was Rick Wagoner. Did I miss something?!?! 1) Can the board make these kinds of decisions? 2) What is the purpose of making a decision like that in the first place? Pontiac is/was a volume division which could've/does have a lot of life left *IF* the appropriate investment is made. (Then again, so did Oldsmobile, Saturn and Hummer) 3) If this were the case, then why the continued investment in the G8 and Solstice variants & 4) Why did Bob Lutz even care about Pontiac at this point, if it were to be shut down all along? Maybe this is why our friend PCS has been so adamant about the closure of Pontiac and his company having "friends in high places" (although I doubt the attempted closure, or closure of Pontiac had anything to do with GME) Not to mention, I question how much power the board has on issues such as this since they were apparently the ones who were to be Saabs knight in shining armor. (We all see how far that got) ** While I highly DOUBT the sale of Buick (given the source) could the article indeed point a way for Pontiac to return? (If Buick is sold or GMC is killed by the greenies in Washington) Thoughts?

+1... I thought GM WAS at 3 divisions. At this point, GM just needs to file Chapter 11 (and tell Obama to f*ck off) and save it's 5 remaining nameplates (purposely) and see what happens... That would be better than killing yourself while the people who have wanted you dead for 20 years watch in glee.