FUTURE_OF_GM

Nah.. Then they wouldn't get the DESIRED results. That only counts when it's an American car, unless the quality of said American car is positive, then it doesn't count at all To give GM bad publicity.... Like I said, now the magazines are STACKING the tests... It's the same reason the "knife in a gunfight" Cobalt LS was included in their small car test. To destroy the credibility of GM's new product. "Coincidence" that this article was published almost exactly when GM is drumming up publicity for the V-series ehh??? Because then IT would be last judging by the lackluster publicity it has received so far.

I wouldn't call 11K sales a month "in the doldrums" I don't understand why everyone thinks the PT is such a failure.... It outsells ALL of its competition... Doesn't that make it the winner???? I still think GM should make it a point to PAINFULLY, publicly humiliate all of those in the media and analytical fields who tried to write off or kill the HHR (Which is pretty much everyone) "GM will be lucky if they sell 60K a year" Well screw you man, 'cause were going to sell 2X that many. This proves that the SSR could've sold as well had it been affordable and practical.

The media?!?!? Not respecting a volume American division!?!?!? Why am I not surprised.

Welcome to the world of GM...

Yeah, when the SEC decided to jump on the automakers backs and "have fun" like the media and analysts were. GM is screwed either way as usual.... Even if they file this "inevitable chapter 11" then they'll still be chastised with a bad image. I guess we might as well curl up and die... Congrats America and the Media! You've accomplished your goals! LOL...UAW leadership being the typical dumbasses that they are.

Maybe someone should write countless propaganda pieces on how "The big 4" magazines are having to incentivize and virtually give their products away.... In fact I think I will as a spoof. As for me, why even pay $8 for trash when I can read it for free at Barnes and Noble. (That is, unless I need T.P.---- Come to think of it, $8 for a years supply of T.P. ain't bad)

I can't believe the negativity toward these cars.... Both are EXCELLENT cars that ARE competitive with the competition. The V's will just make things better... And people WILL buy them. The XLR hasn't been selling any worse than other high dollar roadsters. Other comments: I'd take a C6 over the XLR anyday or a Z06 over the XLR-V anyday just because it's more my style.

Classic Corvettes have REALLY good resale value :D

EXCELLENT opportunity! But I'm sure someone will beat them to the punch.

I disagree... Cadillacs, Corvettes, GMT800 SUVs and to an extent Buicks, have always been bought by affluent people.

That Lincoln convertible was BEAUTIFUL!!!! And it was universally shrugged off. I've always loved Lincolns art deco/art neuvoux style.

I agree... Big missed opportunity if GM doesn't do a turbo... Back to the old ways I guess 1500 models with one insufficient engine. GM needs to turbo the Solstice and Sky as well as the Cobalt SS and HHR SS

As they carefully, in typical Car & Driver fashion, open the door for the Solstice to take a fall in the REAL comparison. WOW, what a built in liability release statement! Did they get their lawyers to write that for them?!?!?!?! SUBJECTIVE because we all know that logically and objectively the import is the better car... To bad their disentary of the mouth about imports besting domestics for the past 20 years hasn't held the SUBJECTIVE liability release statement..... I guess they're just assumed better and assumed it is accepted that way. Reasons for this: 1) Built in safety net so they can reverse their opinion if there is too much backlash from readers. 2) To toy with domestic fans and give them a kick in the teeth for being rednecks and liking lowly cars. 3) To see how pissed off their "Asian friends" get so that they have a chance to recant. 4) To give GM false hope (Throw 'em a bone) and hook a few more of it's fans into import minded bliss. 5) Just for the drama of "the story"

I'm with Paulino.. I like the XLR and XLR-V a lot but they're just missing something. The Evoq concept was BEAUTIFUL, but eventhough the XLR is striking and attractive it isn't as cool as the concept. It does if you go back further than the 80's Dude, what are YOU drinking?? Don't you remember the glowing write-ups the STS got when it first debuted? It placed well in all but 1 comparison. Autoweek said it almost BESTED the more performance oriented 5 Series they put it against. Neither the STS nor the XLR are "BELOW AVERAGE" Sure, the interior of the STS *MIGHT* be a little dated and cheap for the class, but that's probably its only flaw. And the XLR placed above the SC430 in NUMEROUS comparisons while almost besting the SL. I can however see your point there.... Crystal clear. And I agree if that becomes the case. I think we'll see conquest sales though... There are a lot of CTS-Vs running around here. Face it, the cars are good values with awesome styling, amazing power and awesome handling. And to boot the interiors, while not class leading, are good to great. I guess some people just can't accept that GM will ever be as good or better than the imports no matter what they do. Trust me... This group of buyers is a trendy bunch, some will already want the "new fad" Cadillac and those who don't will at least take notice when these cars get the positive write ups they deserve in the press. These cars will benefit Cadillac a lot.

Absolutely. And I see that too, but it's going to take more than a few good reviews to reverse the years of damage that the media has done (And amazing is still doing despite the red ink at Ford, who is in worse shape anyway and GM) The story of Ford amazes me because it's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The company really gained footing in the Nassar days as far as growth is concerned and at one time they were poised to surpass GM according to the media. Then (My guess is because they were doing a little to well) the media turned on them. It started with the whole Firestone fiasco (Eventhough Ford had nothing to do with that) and has lasted WEEKLY and DAILY until Ford has been reduced to a rebadging unit using Mazda platforms and rebadged cars at each of its divisions. In fact analysts said that had Ford not been a household name they would've been bought out or went bankrupt during this time period. So, the bad hysteria created by the media almost detroyed Ford just like it did Chrysler during it's time and had the Ford family not held a majority share, we would've probably witnessed another buyout. Then it seems they started focusing on GM, so much so now that we're to the point of Kerkorian coming in and threatening to whore the comapny and it's assets out to foreign/outside ownership. (Remember Chrysler, this is when the downhill slide REALLY began) It's just a huge scam that everyone has bought into which is perpetuated by lackluster cars in many cases (Sure I'll give you that) but mostly by an ANTI-Detroit sentiment that is injected into the peoples heads DAY in and DAY out by the chosen few. It happens ALL the time now... Cars in general are so good that they are rated failure or winner based on cheesy, minor subjective factors.. Pretty much I can say; "Well I like the wing on the Cobalt better, it doesn't rattle as much" and declare it the winner and the sad part is 'pop culture' buys it hook, line and sinker. PRIME EXAMPLE: The "Cheap Speed" test in Car and Driver recently in which the GM twins (Ion RL and Cobalt SS/SC) outperformed the imports AND cost less yet were placed in 4th and 5th place because of SUBJECTIVE measures.... "Well, we like the RSX better because were bigger fans of Acura than Chevy" Sure, they'll never say that but essentially that's the level journalism has fallen to now. What about the article in which Buick placed over Lexus in a satisfaction survey yet the author made the excuse that Lexus owners are more discerning than Buick owners to justify the higher placement. No facts, just the authors biased opinion. And now every quality discussion we get into someone brings up the fact that "Well, Lexus owners are more critical" BULLSH*T! How about this; "Domestic owners are more critical because they EXPECT bad reliability based on what they've BEEN TOLD, not experienced" It's this justification of imports STILL being better than domestics because of the authors' blind loyalty REGARDLESS of how much better the domestic actually performs that will be the death of Detroit. And it's sad because the public is really missing out now on some great car/trucks simply because the media is conditioning them to NOT EVEN CONSIDER domestics... It's all planned and all a ploy. Yes. I openly admit that a lot of times I am a pretty negative person and usually have a pretty negative outlook. But trends don't change in 5 years... In the U.S. it has become a CULTURE to hate the big three, this has been going on since the days of Nader and the days of the fuel crisis. I just think that it is going to be VERY difficult to change such an ingrained and passionate culture (of hating domestics) especially when you get paid to do it like the media does because that's what your readers want or how they view the world. Am I an optimist? Sure, in a strange way; as in I think that everything is a fight for survival in this industry and society, and I know what can be accomplished in times like these by innovative and passionate people... I think that domestics can come back and I definately believe in their spirit to fight (Obviously by the countless remarks I've made about picking themselves up and getting to it again) BUT, I'm also a realist.. Reality tells me that there is no end in sight for this dark deterioration that our companies have endured for years on end now. Not only is GM going to have to make segment busters and leaders but they are also going to have the impossible task of changing the enemy's opinion (And by that I mean the jaded consumers and the media, because they are in essence enemies if they do not support GM) They have to do this all while having a smaller budget and being hampered by ever growing costs. Reality says that cannot be done or at the very least is close to impossible. I didn't take it personally and I hope you haven't either, in fact in a strange way I'm kinda jealous because my passion for GM doesn't allow me to be as unbiased as you. It would be a lot less stress and a lot more happiness. I just figured I would put my thoughts out there.

I agree, but they're not all trash. Trust me... There is nothing weak about me or what I say... If anything I'm offensive and willing to attack at the drop of a hat. And therein lies the problem and the entire reason I gripe like I do. The media (And for that reason the public) will ALWAYS look down upon domestics no matter how much BETTER they are/become than everything else. Turbo, don't take this personally, but the more and more you buy into the theory that GM is inferior, the more and more you will turn on your beliefs. As for losing credibility I don't really think I have that problem anyway since most know my style and know not to take everything I type so seriously, but anyway; 1) My rantings are opinion and opinion only most of the time or MY TAKE on certain facts. 2) I say what I feel, support what I'm loyal to and am painfully honest with my opinions (Obvious flaws and all) I really don't care how people view me, I'm not so insecure that I'm afraid to be the black sheep or that I have to have a following in a hobby that I really gain nothing but stress from a lot of the time anyway. I write what I write to be taken as what it is, sometimes as obvious humor, sometimes as obvious exaggeration and sometimes simply as rants about things I'm passionate on. I don't write to please everyone and give everything that I disagree with fair judgement because if I were to do that then what would be the point of disagreeing with it in the first place?

And of course it got absolutley NO media attention... It's all a big lie.... ALL OF IT and it amazes me how controllable people are.

I'd like to see a Buick on there too ;)

[quote]And isn't the point of hybrids all above helping the environment? The fuel savings go along with that, but the *main* point of hybrids is emissions.[/quote] mmmkay.... whatever you say. [quote]And in terms of overall fuel saved and emissions, Toyota has done more on the hybrid front than GM, whether you want to believe it or not.[/quote] And I should believe this why? Because you the import person says so? Typical. [quote]The average Joe *cannot* go and just simply buy a GM hybrid bus for personal use.[/quote] And that has anything to do with what???? If your main concern is to save the environment, then wouldn't reducing the maximum amount of emissions be the goal instead of giving prententious, self righteous, baby boomers a new fad to rub in the face of their neighbors? [quote]I can go *right now* to Japan and buy myself a Hino hybrid diesel truck. That's the difference.[/quote] Okay... Because the average Japanese citizen buys a commercial medium duty truck as a daily driver. [quote]Please, don't beat this dead horse any more. The Sierra is not a "hybrid" because all it does is turn off the motor at a red light. It does nothing more than that. There are no additional electrical motors that provide additional power on top of the gas engine.[/quote] And that makes a difference because? Is there some magical Websters definition for "Hybrid and how it is built" I guess too many people have been brainwashed into the Toyota way or no way thinking of the media. [quote]You seem to be blinded by your own bias. I try and remain neutral and partial to all companies, and give credit where it is due. Of course, I am a GM fan, but I try and keep my bias to a minimum, and I acknowledge and respect the competition. GM needs a *major* revolution for it to turn itself around, as right now, GM is going nowhere fast. You people never credit Toyota's hybrid tech in Japan, yet continually talk about GM's hybrid busses. Is that not considered bias?[/quote] Okay... If I have to repeat this one more time I'm going to scream. (I've said this 4 times in the past 2 days) WE ARE Cheers and Gears, a GM ENTHUSIAST SITE. We are NOT unbiased. I am horribly biased, I HATE Toyota more than I hate a baby killer. THIS IS a GM enthusiast site, NOT an IMPORT FRIENDLY media outlet. This will be my last post on this topic.

So that's why Toyota wanted this stake... Way to go GM!!! <_< :angry:

Come to think of it, this new model actually reminds me a lot of the original Denali. (The one that shared it's front end with the original Escalade)

A.K.A. Successful trend setters; for which a large portion of the public strives to be or be like. Hopefully :D Of course, my perception is related to brand image as a whole for GM and it's divisions.

A fluke? Yeah right.... That many problems in one test and you STILL expect them to crown it the king!?!?!?! It wouldn't have been a "Fluke" had the CTS experienced the same problems and the BMW been problem free. How was the final ranking BTW? When was this test? Why should we? The media certainly doesn't. That sure is A LOT to factor out... In my opinion enough so that it makes the comparison null and void. Okay... Better reliability, more space, less $$$ a roughly equal driving experience and better styling... How does that not make it a better car? Any other measures are completely subjective... This mindset (That even when the GM car has better virtues, it's still not better) is what has and will keep the imports ahead in the media and in the eye of the consumer.It's subconcious for most, but perfectly conscious for others (AKA the journalists) Why would someone buy or not buy a GM product based on what I say??? For all they know and for all you guys know I'm just some wacko with a GM enthused anger problem that found access to a keyboard out of boredom. It's a pretty persuadable person that would base buying decision on a durable good on what an enthusiast blogger says. Seriously, other enthusiast blogs aren't unbiaed, the media isn't unbiased so why should we be? I'm not attacking anyone, I think highly of everyone here (I'm just having fun playing Devil's advocate) but we are afterall on a GM ENTHUSIAST SITE in a CADILLAC forum.. OF course you're going to have LOYAL people, we're NOT and never have claimed to be an unbiased site. And although I am biased I am not a GM cheerleader. (Just look at my post in the Fuji sell off for most recent evidence)

[quote]Umm, you are incorrect.[/quote] Except not. [quote]GM has not implemented more hybrid technology than Toyota.[/quote] On a fuel savings basis (Which is why we build hybrids right?) they indeed have. [quote]For over a year now, Toyota has been selling a hybrid turbo diesel commercial Hino truck in Japan. That makes Toyota with the first and only hybrid diesel model available to the public.[/quote] GM hybrid buses have been on sale for 4 or 5 years now. [quote]Also, Toyota has prototype fuel cell hybrid buses in service in Tokyo.[/quote] As does GM; in D.C. [quote]This is on top of the hybrid models Toyota already sells around the world.[/quote] Which isn't many in the grand scheme of things, especially considering the U.S. is by far the LARGEST market for hybrids. [quote]GM has it's hybrid buses yes, but no hybrids that have yet to be available to the public. And no, the Sierra "hybrid" doesn't count.[/quote] And why doesn't it? Who says? It is in fact a hybrid isn't it? Just because they didn't make a worhtless "Gee whiz" mobile like Toyota and instead decided to focus on real USEFUL technology doesn't mean it isn't a real hybrid. See that's the thing with import-minded people.. No mater how good GM becomes, they will still refuse to belief it and continue to JUSTIFY their bias against the company. Same with the Ford hybrids.

Another example of GM throwing cash away.... GM gained nothing from the relationship yet Subaru got $$$. Just like with Fiat and just like with Suzuki (The HF V6 and Theta) Still, I do not agree with decreasing the size of the company and I think Fuji was probably a good investment IF they could've made it work. Whatever I guess.... Shrink, and give the naysayers what they want.