FUTURE_OF_GM

The navigator interior and it's retro-art deco vibe is MUCH, MUCH more stylish than the 1990 Camry interiors that GM has been giving us lately. And "looks" is what I was referring to, not quality or feel since I haven't been in an Escalade yet.

What's that I hear?!?!?!?!? Oh yeah, NO media coverage.

Seems like a fine compromise to me... And a 'journalist' wanting to b*tch about something for nothing. Decent Review. Of course they didn't, it's an advantage!

Once GM completely dies, GM will NEVER return. It's just too hard to re-establish business in this country and those that want GM to die would never allow a successful ressurection in the first place.

So, you'd rather the company die? There is no "Working it out long term" Either GM declares or a series of small miracles happen (Yeah right, it's GM. If it can go wrong it WILL go wrong) in order to keep them from declaring. As far as I'm concerned, unless things change, they're just prolonging the inevitable and have been since '92 and DEFINATELY since '98 when GM let the union run over them and destroy Oldsmobile/cause damage that can never be repaired, yet did not act. I'll second that... If for no other reason than to help them destroy Japan Inc, I will buy Korean if GM and Ford someday cease to exist.

ABSOLUTELY! In fact I would encourage it. If americans want to whine about paying higher taxes then they need to learn to start supporting their own economy instead of other countries. If they would've given GM a fair shake, then this would've never happened... Pay me now or pay me later... And I think it's just, beautiful and SWEET revenge. There is nothing I would like more than to have import driving yuppie americans BREAKING their backs to support MY passion AGAINST their will. I could die a happy man then :D Absolutely.... The public will be more anti-GM than ever. You know as well as I do that the media (Already playing up the pension deal with Delphi) will continue to do so with GM. We'll be bombarded for a good 1-2 years about how GM is the most worthless entity on earth and that we're having to pay for their worthless legacy and mistakes, and that the way to combat that, AS WELL AS create american jobs is to buy japanese. The bankruptcy will hurt GM in the publics eyes, but the pension deal, and it's exposure/hype/formulation of fiction will be the death nell. In my opinion; these people want GM gone and GONE it will be eventually even IF they declare bankruptcy. That is, unless americans wake up to the lies they're being told and HAVE been told and WILL be told by this anti-GM, anti-Detroit, anti-midwest, anti-industry, anti-america (Call it whatever you will) faction.

BUT, the catch 22 to that is this: under the new arrangement K-Mart is supposed to become a holding company (For multiple companies; Sears is the first) and not so much a retailer. So, is it really a better deal? I don't know much about it, but bankruptcy would have it's advantages and disadvantages... ADVANTAGES: unloading debt, capacity and pensions. Becoming leaner and meaner and giving Toyota hell. :D Rebirth as a "new" company. DISADVANTAGES: Stock price will die, sales will die, consumer sentiment will probably be shitty (Because you know the media will play up the "Dead GM" and won't let them slide on "Dumping all of their debt on U.S. taxpayers--so buy japanese") Definately a sell off of assets (GMAC) and maybe division closings (This is the part that scares me the most) a break up and sell off of the corporations profitable entities (Cadillac, Chevrolet) Those are a few of the more obvious things.

Personally, I think GM should've used THIS rear end treatment for the Cobalt coupe and put the Corvette inspired round units on the Cobalt sedan. These taillights just flow better with the bumper cut and would attract more import intenders... The sedan, with it's bland rear roof line could've benefited greatly from the cool circular units.

I'm going to put one on each of my classic Camaros (Probably in the interior somewhere.) I think the GM badge was an EXCELLENT idea. Now, that said, the placement of some of the GM badges (Like on the Equinox or Colorado)... NOT such a good idea

Let me draw this comparison... The Navigator was ALWAYS nicer than the Escalade, details and all. And the interior is STILL nicer. YET it never sold the numbers that the Escalade did... WHY you ask? Because it didn't have the STYLE that the Escalade had... It didn't convey the attitude that the Escalade conveyed and it didn't turn the heads that the Escalade turned. I hope and pray that this truck has what it takes in reality... But right now, I'm not completely sure.

LOL... I am obsessed, but not nearly as obsessed as the good old days when I held the title of top poster on the site. :D The reason I don't post in the lounge much is because I still don't have enough time to devote to the forums and consequently, the lounge gets last priority. I have tried to change that recently as I miss the friendship feeling that I used to get from posting in the lounge. For a while I almost felt ostricized and a lot of the new members didn't know me well. I've also tried to come to the lounge more to knock off the constant vibe of negativity that I feel when I'm posting in the GM related areas.

I'm sure they'll make up some excuse in the next issue and sell everyone on the myth that the Civic is still the superior car... I'm sure the DRASTIC mileage difference wasn't even mentioned either. C.R. ALERT!!!

As always.... BEAUTIFUL! I give GM 5 to 10 years MAX if things don't start changing and that's being VERY optimistic. Hell, I'm going to hate to see what America looks like in 30 years. Much less GM.

AMEN!!!!! Turbo200 just BEAUTIFULLY summed it up. The current Escalade, and Cadillac cars, while stylish and nice ARE NOT A&S and ARE NOT what Cadillac needs to stay ahead of the competitors. I mean, the new Escalade has REALLY grown on me but it did need to be more distinctive and Lutz needs to stay the hell out of the Cadillac wing... Leave the curves and blobs for more timid and classic brands like Buick and Chevrolet. As far as the interior is concerned.... I *STILL* think the Denali interior is better.

"The American Nightmare" "Anti-Import Superstar" Can't think of any more... Thanks to z28luvr01 for restoring mine though :)

It, the entire lens, turns into a turn signal. Look on Pontiac.com and there is a pic. It just doesn't have a divider line and 2 bulbs. I agree.... But, better that it's in the grille than on the nose somewhere. That way it can be unbolted and taken out, whereas in the other instance there would be 2 huge holes ruining the nose (If the tag bracket wasn't there) I would just take it off... If a front plate is required I would just leave it in the front window.

It's REALLY growing on me... Especially now that the crappy GM photographers aren't a part of the deal.

I had originally planned on voting for McCain as well. Agree 100%

I wondered if the F-22 was in service yet. Cool! I read something saying that the Navy is developing a similar aircraft, except smaller and single engined.

I'm just going for school, semester by semester. So, technically I'm not moving there just yet. Better to leave the Camaro's safe at home. But home's only 2 hours away :)

It worries me pretty badly.

I know, and I'd like to apologize to everyone. I will delete my replies if anyone would like me to.

[quote name='Croc' date='Nov 11 2005, 02:33 PM']I didn't personally attack you first. An you didn't quote it...because it didn't happen.[/quote] OH REALLY..... [quote]So WHOOPS! there goes some of your arguments about "just swapped out a Yukon grille" I mean please how ignorant can you get?[/quote] BTW, this quote was taken from my post a few pages back... And I can trace the post it pertained to if you like. [quote]You claim my "pompous" and "berating" attitude on this site, well what the hell do you think you do?[/quote] I admit, I am egotistical (Although not in reality) and negative, but not berating... I don't directly insult the intelligence of other posters. [quote]Reading one of your posts is like listening to a homeless person with Tourette's screaming about whatever the FOG rant of the day is.[/quote] No one said you have to read it. I'll not divulge of what I think of your posts. Not to mention; a lot of people like to read my rants which is a major reason why I do it a lot. It is my "role" on the site. [quote]Seriously, take it to the PMs if you have anything further to say.[/quote] Nah man, we'll air it on the board until I'm told otherwise. You started this fight and we'll end it if need be. [quote]No you're right...you don't scoff at people...you chew them out. And then oftentimes you eat some crow a little later while you're at it.[/quote] So? Being able to admit you're wrong is a sign of integrity and at least I'm honest enough to do that Better yet, I'm all about honesty... I might come across as mean, I might come across as angry and I might be negative, but at least by god I'm honest. Which is more than can be said for you, the king of PM's and behind the scene's warfare.

[quote]This is the perfect example on what the members are becoming on C&G. Pessimistic about everything that GM pumps out and making predictions of failure based on nothing but your opinion.[/quote] I've always been and always openly admitted being a negative person. AND I've always openly admitted that I struggle with that and my bringing constant negativity to the site. But, it's not like anything around GM is positive right now. [quote]Nitpick at every small insignificant detail. That's not being a critic, that's being self-centered. Just because you don’t like it’s look automatically means it’s crap.[/quote] That *IS* automotive media. [quote]Fine, keep that opinion but don’t go around preaching[/quote] Why not? Do I not have a right to my opinion just because it's different? [quote]it and scoff at anyone who doesn’t agree with you.[/quote] I never "scoffed" at anyone. In fact, I said I was warming up to it. [quote]GM isn't perfect but it has come a long way. You cannot deny that.[/quote] And I don't, I promote it. [quote]So wait, where is that optimism? It's been sucked out by the automotive press who have been bombarding everyone with stories of GM falling from grace and how the Big 2 are doomed for all eternity. Okay. We get it. Now let them regroup. But no, they've got to keep twisting the knife and scare away shareholders. I'm not saying that GM isn't responsible but there clearly is more negative press then there needs to be. But that's me going into one of my rants.[/quote] I agree and sometimes I buy into that too much.

[quote name='Croc' date='Nov 10 2005, 02:52 PM']FOG, you are an idiot.[/quote] Croc don't get me started on how I *really* feel about you and your little b*tch fits.. Professionalism aside, I would've stopped tolerating your pompous and berating attitude toward everyone a long time ago had it not been for the better interest of the site. We'll leave it at that. [quote]Of course the general shape of things will be the same, but look! you CANNOT swap out an Escalade grille and put in a Yukon grille if you wanted to![/quote] Do you HONESTLY think people are going to pay that much attention to detail for their first impression of this vehicle??? Do you really think people are auto enthusiasts or, better yet, GM enthusiasts like us??? [quote]Pontiacs have NOT had grilles that couldn't be swapped out.[/quote] Which is DEFINATELY why I quoted the part about the material in the grille, OBVIOUSLY NOT the swapping out of the grille. [quote]You wanna argue the tacky vs. successful argument, fine. But that would mean that you would be arguing that RICE isn't tacky because it is popular and lucrative.[/quote] I've never argued against RICE in the first place, but rather japanese cars in general. [quote]And before you get all pissy about my calling you an idiot and screaming "personal attack!" you definitely attacked me first by calling me ignorant.[/quote] Jesus man, are you that delusional?? First, my "ignorant' comment was made because you called me ignorant; and I even QUOTED it. And secondly, obviously you don't remember from days past and my well known history here (Baddabing anyone?) and apparently didn't learn from my last response... I don't whine about "personal attacks" I ATTACK BACK. [quote]Seriously, it isn't that hard to be civil. :rolleyes: [post="41469"][/post] [/quote] Maybe you should take note after all you caused and been through here. I don't mean to be an ass, but I'm a little angry about being called ignorant and an idiot simply because of my opinion.