FUTURE_OF_GM

ABSOLUTELY!!!! And it is sorely needed. But it would have to be executed correctly. People need to know the FACTS (Because the media sure as hell won't tell them-they fabricate their own facts) So, in that sense it would work.. Even against the media backlash it would create. But to go on air and beg people for sales or sound like you're whining... Well, that'd just be bad..

Okay, so how many plants did GM halt??? 9...10...12...6...32...105?!?!?!?!? Jesus man, it's a different number with EVERY story! Credibility....Yeah right! So GM is selling 4.5 million vehicles this year as opposed to 4.7 million last year?? Doesn't seem like that big of a difference to me? (Is it significant?) Wouldn't that just account for falling SUV sales because of the fuel crunch and feasibly had the fuel spike not occured wouldn't GM be right on track? Anybody else find this statement to be a hilarious oxymoron???

[quote]Standing under a fading blue sign that says BIRTHPLACE OF THE AMERICAN V6, Allan Taylor gestures at the factory behind him and grimaces. "Everything in there is obsolete," he says of the Buick engine plant. Taylor has spent 30 years there, and at 59 he's nearing retirement. It's a good thing too, since the plant won't be running much longer. General Motors plans to shut it down in 2008, one of nine factories the company aims to close, eliminating 30,000 jobs. Taylor is surprised the plant has lasted this long. "We have to put buckets under the machines to catch the leaking oil," he says. Buick City, where he works, was once a vast manufacturing complex more than a mile in length. It's now mostly a desolate field of crushed stone surrounded by parking lots too big for GM's shrinking workforce. If you didn't know you were in Flint, Mich., you might think you were at an old Soviet factory that made nameless products no one really wanted.[/quote] Wow, that's a cute way to paint GM as an unreliable, outdated ENEMY-like company. [quote]Yet GM can't seem to make money in its core business, manufacturing automobiles at home.[/quote] Along with every other AMERICAN industry... Gee, you think something might be amiss with that statement?????!!! That maybe someone in Congress should do something to level the field?!?!?!?!?! Gee, I just don't know... (Sarcasm) [quote]The company's problems run so deep that only a major overhaul could do the job--and then only if a smooth road lies ahead.[/quote] Yep... That's right. Just give up now GM... According to this article you're just going to, and I quote: "undoubtedly...shrink" into nothingness. [quote]It may sound obvious that GM needs to sell cars that people want to buy, but that's at the top of Wagoner's list of challenges. Wall Street is uneasy over GM's production plans, heavily weighted toward light trucks at a time when consumers are veering away from gas guzzlers. The overreliance on big vehicles is partly a result of bad luck. GM execs have admitted they never anticipated gas prices rising as fast as they did during the hurricane season, when a gallon of gas cost more than $3 in some regions. Yet GM relied for years on its SUV sales for profits--and underinvested in cars--which seemed smart until the bottom fell out. Says Meyers: "They made a mistake to go with the big guys." Goldman Sachs cites GM's launch of models like the 2007 Chevy Suburban as a "key negative" in Wagoner's turnaround plan, with the market for large SUVs expected to slump 8% next year. GM promises that the new models will be 10% more fuel efficient, be laden with more luxurious interiors and feature a smoother ride.[/quote] 2 comments on this. 1) It should've been PAINFULLY obvious to GM that they NEED NOT forsake the car side of the business. 2) GM has incredibly bad luck... If it can go wrong, it WILL go wrong at the "tubes" hence the sky high gas prices. [quote] The Japanese companies began developing hybrids in the '90s, when Detroit scoffed at the technology as economically unviable. [/quote] And to a logical person, READ: not someone who is easily drawn in with the 'happy' marketing, it STILL is unviable and most certainly IS NOT the solution to our environmental or conservation problems. [quote]"GM's reasoning with hybrids was, Why bother when trucks are selling?" says Matheson.[/quote] WOW! Vilification at it's best! "We're big bad GM and we don't care about hybrids 'cause we're too dumb to see past profit." Call me a cynic, but I think there was a stronger business case against hybrids in place than this. <_< I'm sure GM weighed out the advantages and disadvantages and at the time were widely viewed as correct (I remember all of the anti-hybrid editorials in the rags that all the media so often seems to gloss over and forget--but then again, they're the media, they go with whatever side of the argument sells) I'm tired of the hybrid buzz... Toyota and Honda simply got lucky because fuel prices skyrocketed... End of story. Had that not happened, the Prius would be just a smaller blip than it is now, on the automotive radar screen. Toyota has good luck; GM bad luck. [quote]Toyota put hybrids on the market even when the company knew they wouldn't make money right away. "Detroit doesn't think that way,"[/quote] Umm, yeah.. So? If I were struggling to make money in the first place, then good business sense would dictate that I not waste my money on a project that automatically meant I would take a loss... You don't have to be brilliant to figure that one out. AND, I'm sure Wall Street would've held "Detroit" accountable for every penny that program lost constantly smearing their name (Just like they're doing now, in this very article in fact) [quote]What really scares Wall Street is the prospect of a Delphi strike. Goldman Sachs estimates that a Delphi work stoppage could shut down GM factories at a cost of $2 billion a month, causing GM to burn through its cash reserves at a deadly clip. "A strike could push them over the edge," says Steven Szakaly, an economist with the Center for Automotive Research. Unions representing Delphi workers have described the bankrupt company's latest offer--cutting wages from an average $27 an hour to $10.50 for production staff--as "insulting," and U.A.W. chief Ron Gettelfinger has described Delphi boss Robert Miller as a "rogue." The U.A.W. last week filed a protest in bankruptcy court over a Delphi compensation plan that would award top execs up to $500 million to stay on the job. GM, caught in the middle of the dispute, is likely to try to broker a deal.[/quote] LOL... Good 'ole UAW... They won't stop until they're ALL out of a job! Heck, why not? Isn't that what unions are for anyway? To stick together? You know, even right up to the unemployment office after they've bankrupted their industry. [quote](GM is on track to sell more cars overseas than in North America for the first time this year.)[/quote] Not cool, but not surprising either with GM's conquests in China and Latin America. [quote]But some analysts think that's overly optimistic, since foreign competitors are coming on strong.[/quote] That's right GM, just quit while you're ahead <_< [quote]Buick may be a stodgy brand, but in recent years it has edged Toyota in quality surveys, suggesting that if shoppers can get over Buick's grandfatherly image, they actually enjoy its wheels. "GM is building some of the best-quality cars in its history," notes industry consultant Ron Harbour. Now Wagoner has to make those cars sell--be it with edgier design, more sophisticated marketing or a combination of both, taking a cue from the revival of Cadillac.[/quote] Amen brother! And why is it always Harbour that is giving GM props? Is he the only media figure that likes GM? (Don't answer that) [quote]and to act like the company is obsolete, and has no place in this world is blasphamy...[/quote] Then I guess 40-60% of america is blaspheming. People simply don't care... "As long as I'm okay, then screw everyone else!" "I don't buy GM, and I'm okay because my job doesn't depend on it" "Toyota, our hero, will make up the lost jobs" Oh and I agree BTW.

[quote name='AH-HA' date='Nov 26 2005, 11:55 AM']Gee thanks. <_< Seriously, Buick or Saab should be deep sixed. [post="48780"][/post] [/quote] I'll politely disagree. But, that said, you know things about the industry. A lot of these analysts or journalists are just looking to make headlines. [quote]ah, but Saab is one of GM's only global players, and has potential for a much stronger presence in Europe.[/quote] I agree... GM is doing well at regaining it's foothold in Europe, to 'off' Saab would put a major kink in things and could possibly hinder GME... So then we'd have a GMNA crisis (because I don't think offing a division, especially one as small as Saab is going to make much of a difference anyway) and possibly a GME crisis in a few years. Or at least it would seem that way. The wild card would be Cadillac and maybe Buick to a lesser extent. Exactly how close is a growing Cadillac presence in Europe going to be positioned to where Saab is or would've been if it were sold off? Or, better yet, to secure a stronger future for Buick, why not begin exporting them to Europe as a mid-level division with "style" I once read that Buick were very popular in some trendsetting European places such as France. [quote]Trying to think from a GM exec's perspective, I don't really see a reason to cut any of the brands. Hummer is profit central, and has a great future as long as they can continue to execute Hummers with undeniable Hummerness.[/quote] Exactly... Hummer to GM is a name and a badge job. They license the name and put it on variations of already existing product if I'm not mistaken. So how much would ditching Hummer save? [quote]Buick, Pontiac, and GMC, well they can continue to coexist happily in the dealerships, and will most definitely, as long as the right products are introduced, increase volume, not decrease.[/quote] Therein lies the big issue.... Each of these divisions HAS a share of the market and if the merger goes well, they should thrive. Why give that up? Not to count, that'd be a lot of pissed of GM dealers. These "profit tomorrow, not later" hacks don't care about the future... They want GM to make money NOW! Then, in a few years when GM has a flawed product strategy because they axed a division to appease Wall Street, the very same hacks will be whining for GM to cut another division and chastising them for not being competitive. Could you imagine the headlines if GM were to axe Buick, it's founding division? [quote]Saturn has a bright future thanks to great products and hopefully an expanding dealer base.[/quote] Mark my words, Saturn will not be cut... There is too much growth potential in Saturn. [quote]Saab is doing poorly, but only has two, outdated, fully Saab-like vehicles. Saab has been hemorraging for a long time, but has never been given a chance to succeed, much like Buick, or been given the wrong chances, much like any GM brand.[/quote] SPOT ON! [quote]Buick/Pontiac Could Share Developement costs with GM Asia Pacific. Global Platforms. One Vehicle on Each Platform.[/quote] Holden :)

We're back down to $2.01 here in NC

LOL, what a surprise... Cadillac starts getting negative press again this year and their sales slump. They're just letting GM know that Cadillac isn't untouchable and Taylor is just bowing down to kiss some rear. Seriously though... Could it be the press? Could it be gas prices cooling the Escalade? Could it be stiffer competition in the market? (New Lexi, new 5 series, etc.) And what's wrong with that again? There are so many things wrong with that statement.... And GM should address this in a HUGE way!

I dunno.. Apparently according to some here Honda "succeeded" in the truck market by bolting an Avalanche knock-off body with an illogical "trunk" onto a thicker frame. I think people would buy it just because of the "T" in the grille and the UNDENIABLE (and ass kissing) media endorsements

Wow. That's a WHOLE lot of opinion, and lets us know how the author REALLY thinks about GM leadership. It also shows that he has virtually NO concept of this industry. GM will never be able to regain the share that it is geared for REGARDLESS of how excellent their new offerings are. The market is just too crowded and too fragmented. I'm really tired of every nut job in the media *thinking* that he/she has insight into what GM should do.. You push a pencil (and you're not too good at that) you DON'T run a fortune 500 company. TRANSLATION: VICTORY FOR US ALL!!!! Isn't GM's worldwide market share close to the mid teens now?!?!?!? (18%) Hate to break it to ya bub... But GM STILL is the largest automaker in the world... If that isn't a "major player" then I don't know what is. It's increasingly evident that this guy has an axe to grind with GM management. GM is in trouble but they're not dead yet.

EXACTLY!!! Wall Street is just as much of a business as anything else. If people believe that these analysts have GM's best interest in mind then they're crazy. As always it's a lose/lose situation for GM...

I agree 100%!!! The cars must ATTRACT people befroe they can ever hope to sell.

It's a very sad day when the media and analysts, who know nothing of GM's future product strategy, DEMAND that GM destroy another one of it's historic divisions... This is ridiculous.... That GM is being hounded by the press and people not associated with the industry to kill off another brand. When will it end? I'd bet never... You know... I think this statement might hold water IF GM had fixed any of it's divisions in the first place... The only division remotely "fixed" is Cadillac. LMAO... Yeah... Like the GM trucks weren't a good enough design to last 7 years and as if Toyota has put out a new Tundra (Which is a failed product in the first place) in the past 5 years (Not freshened... NEW. GM "freshened" the 800s a few years ago)

So is that a good thing or a bad thing?? :blink: I think bad, if the cars have lost their edge and personality.

No... Just read the "GM Corporate" section. In there you'll learn "Just how non-vital GM is to our economy" and "Every reason why to hate GM"

What everybody else but us GM fans want.

Where will it stop? 20...15...10...5? Is it "too optimistic" for GM to sell any cars? IMO, there should be MORE of this "attack dog" attitude with GM PR. You know, originally DeLorenzo agreed that GM should not elimnate a division. I wonder what or who changed his mind. IMO, it has already been determined. We're just waiting for the inertia to stop and the death march to begin. Ok, so now all of the sudden, even first rate product can't reverse GM's fate? Basically, GM is going to die regardless and it's only a matter of time? If that's the case, then what's the point? (I think we all know the realistic answer to this question <_<)

Of course they're not enough.. they never are unless they involve a division. Until an imminent death..... Geez man, I thought the title said "Some Optimism"

LMAO :D Ghosen is talented, no doubt. But he gets far more credit than he deserves IMO. Nissan seesm to be peaking or seems to have peaked already in their comeback. P.S. And I agree, a lot of Detroits problems couldn't be more VISIBLE if the grew legs and smacked Wagoner/Ford in the face.

Yes it is... And, if these are "re-badges" then most other auto manufacturers sell a lot of re-badges too.

Another cute, anti-Detroit, "hey foreign makers build here too-don't dare buy GM" article

Hmmmm.... 750,000 domestic employees verses 250,000 foreign employees. Yep, they're the future alright... Even if GM and Ford we're wiped out simple efficiency would negate the need for that many hirings. ***Everybody remember when I said that "the fact that imports have a few factories in America would be played up, in their defense" Merry Christmas Virginia! There is a Santa Claus and the imports don't even have to defend themselves, the media does it for them as their own built in PR firm.

:rotflmao: I still can't wait to piss on his grave. (For those of you who are new, that was included in my signature on the old board and was sort of a joke of the day) :blink: :AH-HA_wink: :ph34r: BUT OF COURSE! Lest any sympathy side track the sheep from achieving the ultimate goal! We must reassure them that what we and they are doing is right and just! SPOT ON. Now take that statement and insert "GM" everywhere "Michael Moore" is and "it" where "he" is.

GEEZ, and people think I'm a conspiracy theorist! BINGO! LOL, this doesn't surprise me.... EVERYONE is against GM now that they're having to (OH MY GOD!) close plants because those SAME people who are aginst GM won't buy their cars but expect the charity of keeping thousands employed. I bet Moore has NEVER bought a GM vehicle or a domestic for that matter. Sorry to be the negative one, but.... well, you know. :(

AMEN!!! Nope, not when the king himself wants GM to fail.

Does the Civic really bring anything revolutionary to the party??? (Seriously; I can't think of anything) It's very hard to be truly innovative in todays cut throat market.

LOL! What a surprise :rolleyes: GM puts out excellent cars and gets nothing, Honda puts out a chintzy, ugly, uninspired Civic and gets awards.... Seriously, the car is more puketacular than the Prius looks-wise, has the interior look and feel of a 1995 Chevrolet Lumina and isn't that much of a "performance bargain" given the power to fuel economy. Yet, the media still bites and gives it GLOWING reviews... All the while americans are buying them up as fast as they get on the lot (Seems to me anyway, as I've seen A LOT of them on the road already--even more than the Cobalt and HHR) Wow, between the Ridgeline and Civic, Honda must be really good at.... Well, lets not go there. [quote]Let's see... 2006 Buick Lucerne 2006 Cadillac DTS[/quote] These were probably too 'old man' for their audience. [quote]2006 Chevrolet HHR 2006 Chevrolet Impala[/quote] OBVIOUSLY too copycat of the PT and the Accord :rolleyes: [quote]2006 Pontiac G6 Coupe 2006 PONTIAC SOLSTICE[/quote] Yeah right! The G6 and a good review are an oxymoron. As for the Solstice...well... Who knows why they won't say anything positive about it? I can't even figure that one out. [quote]Not to mention... 2006 BMW 3-Series 2006 Dodge Charger 2006 Ford Fusion[/quote] All three deserved to win IMO. [quote]2006 Infiniti M[/quote] Impressive in it's own respect. [quote]2006 Lincoln Zephyr[/quote] LOL!!! Yeah right!! A lincoln as COTY... Image suicide for MT [quote]2006 Mazda MX-5 (Miata?)[/quote] This one puzzles me too [quote]2006 Mercury Milan[/quote] see Lincoln Zephyr response [quote]Hell, I'd sooner give the award to... 2006 Lexus GS 2006 Lexus IS 2006 Toyota Avalon[/quote] All more deserving than the Civic, for sure! ***I think it's to the point that there are so many great new cars that it's pretty much a draw from the hat anymore... Well, the asian hat that is.