FUTURE_OF_GM

Priceless... Yet more proof, significant as it may be and slow coming as it all is, that not all is always rosey at Toyota. Nice to see this in Forbes too, so all those diehard import humpers who buy sheltered 'junior' or 'daddy's girl' a nice new, cute little Corolla can lie restlessly awake at night... I'll stop there :D Not surprising This one does surprise me a little. And this one blows me away! And to think that it is constantly praised... Seriously though, I think standard side airbags across the board (industry wide) would be a good notion.

I'm willing to *listen* to Buickman.. And no, I haven't read the plan or the 20 points but I also think that a lot of GM and Ford's problem are a result of no common sense. I'm sure GM has a plan (Well, I'm kinda sure anyway) but my big complaint or issue is that all their 'plans' haven't worked for the past 20 years. So, I think SOMEONE whether it be Buickman or Kerkorian's rep needs to shake things up or either GM management better step outside of their box, and that also goes for Ford.

That statement is so VERY key :) Another key statement and result. Maybe all those old people shouldn't be buying Toyotas :) A LOT of people seem to be determined to see that happen. LOL... YES IT WOULD!

And why is that? Not only are they two seperate cars with seperate purposes and designs, they're also assembled in completely different plants sold under completely different names and divisions. I really FAIL to see the logic behind even the Corolla/Matrix combo. MUCH LESS the Vibe thrown in; it is a joint venture, obviously not a TOYOTA builds for GM deal. And that can be determined by a number of things including the lack of reliability compared to other Toyota models. Okay... Then based on that assumption, GM should add Monte Carlo and Impala sales together or HHR and Cobalt sales (Since HHR is the wagon version of the Cobalt) or better yet, Isuzu SUV & truck sales to Chevrolet truck sales or Yukon to Tahoe sales... Ahh, what the hell, why not jus revert ALL cars to platform based sales performance regardless of division or company. Better YET, let's just add up SEGMENT sales numbers.... You know, Toyota Corolla, Matrix and Scion. Chevrolet Cobalt, HHR and Aveo; and Saturn Ion etc. Funny that since the media exposed the Toyota machine having a severe image problem with the youth, hence Scion, that now on that end of the market (entry level) they're adding models and frankensteining divisions to try and keep everyone quite and drinking the Toyota kool aid. As for the fleet only GM model or division.. A lot of people including myself proposed that to keep Oldsmobile alive (Although I think the idea originated with Dsuupr) and 2 issues were raised. 1) There would still be pretty big cost with retooling it to look like no other GM among other overhead issues. 2) It would make tourists and such more of a TARGET while traveling. Think about it, if you're driving a fleet only GM, then people are going to know that you're usually not from that area and might try to take advantage of that situation.

Well, you know how Toyota works... I'm sure they've devised a clever, yet justifiable way to play the numbers and snow the media. Just like when they combine Corolla and Matrix sales or Toyota and Scion sales :rolleyes: Yet this strength is played against GM on "the street"

Not surprising

OH, interesting.... Of course, I still maintain that the current navi outpaces the new Escalade. Can't wait to see the new one!

EXCELLENT IDEA! Yeah, you caught me. It was just a cheap shot.

Umm no, but nice try. Looks like another 'journalist' that can't even get his BASIC facts straight... And drop the sarcasm, it's best left to professionals like me who have a clue about how to use it. Not the second coming of sliced bread? Oh danny-boy; how old are you again? EXACTLY opposite of what Auto Week said, further proving that the art of automotive comparison is :bs: WHAT!?!?!? This guys gets dumber by the minute!!!! Why perpetuate a lie like that, when HE knows better. It'll just make GM's job harder trying to fix the marketing faux paus. pre-production.... :rolleyes: To scare off buyers. Forget the Supercharger (although it's nice) Let's see a GM return to Turbocharging!!!

I agree, the navigator interior is beautiful. MUCH nicer in appearance than the Escalade interior. And the Fusion/Milan/Zephyr interior(s) is another stunner. A LOT nicer than most anything else in thier class and definately nicer than any interior GM currently offers.

That makes perfect sense, logically and the timeframe lines up well too.

VERY GOOD POST! Confirms a lot of what we've heard over the past 2-3 years. And it's a very exciting future! Now GM just needs to get it on the road. Chevelle and Camaro; how bad ass is that!

Ahh, the power of the media... Eventhough Ford had NOTHING to do with the defect. The collective media saw a chance to kill the momentum of Ford AND america's best selling SUV and took it. Now, look at the effect it had. LOL, because we all know that it is inevitable that we'll ALL be driving Toyotas sooner rather than later. It'll be a sad day in America when Toyota is the top selling company. Well, let me rephrase that, it'll be a sad day for us and anyone with any common sense. For the media and general public it'll be a victorious day! AND the first group to put our country in a perpetual state of decline among MANY other negative things.. Coincidence? Absolutley not. I'm with George Carlin on my stance against Baby Boomers. Meh, we all know that won't last (Sarcasm/Realism)

I'm glad to see Buick have a major presence at Detroit again... The past couple of years they have been relegated to New York or Chicago. I wish we were seeing more from GM though... They need a better presence IMO if the "revival" is to come.

I beg to differ.... I find it VERY hard to believe that roughly 100,000 or 140,000 Impalas a year go into fleet use. ESPECIALLY since Ford has the law enforcement market secured and Nissan seems to have found as much favor with rental agencies. And that scares me.... If GM has to sacrifice market share to stay alive, then so be it. But I hope they're not just sacrificing presence to appease Wall Street. Isn't that a little counter intuitive??? If the average retail price is just north of $18K and the average fleet sale is $15K, yet GM has to cut prices to get more retail sales, thus lowering the average retail price; then why bother in the first place? Does this man not believe that GM's new vehicles will sell on merit as well? Sure, they won't have the initial respect that Toyota gets (How deserved or UNDESERVED that may be) but I don't think hatcheting prices is the single answer. A very scary and sobering figure. Good thing we have that anti-SUV campaign in America! But, let's not kid ourselves. We all knew that the rising gas prices and payback from summer wouldn't be good for sales. Especially sales of out of style aging SUVs. I think the truck side is MOST of Detroits sales probelms now. They're not selling enough trucks and their not even on most consumers car shopping lists.

:rotflmao: That's classic!

WOW! Universal recommendation! [quote]Michigan sophomore Paul Tassi, 18, said he would recommend it "only to my 85-year-old grandmother."[/quote] Not the target audience obviously.... Either that or Paulie boy is a one of those classless import drivers :) I'm 23 and I was floored by the Lucerne. I loved it, AND if you folks will remember correctly I had shown MUCH disdain for the car with it's initial pictures and specs. [quote]Despite the fact that only two panelists, Leneschmidt and Detroit resident William O. Lee, 47, said they would buy the Lucerne, the reaction from the panel was striking in how many of the younger members of the group raved about the vehicle.[/quote] Interesting and a little disheartening... But, it shows that Buick has made progress none the less!!! [quote]Rob Blakeley, 30, a special-education teacher from Ferndale, predicted that Buick is poised to make a Cadillac-style comeback because of the Lucerne, though he wished the sedan came in all-wheel-drive .[/quote] AWD would be great!! And I think Buick will make a comeback too AND a 30 year old saying that is comforting. [quote]Dr. Hamish Carpenter, a 36-year-old West Bloomfield dentist, put 1,526 miles on his Lucerne CXS and praised its stylish design and supple ride. But despite his compliments, he said he remained concerned that the Buick could not hold its own against competitors like the Lexus ES 330 or Toyota Avalon. Carpenter owns a 2003 Lexus GS 300.[/quote] Looks like someone has bought into the "Japanese superiority just because" myth. [quote]Rovik, who is expecting a baby in January and drives a 2006 Toyota Sienna minivan, used her Lucerne CXS to ferry guests to and from her baby shower Nov. 19 and said that while she recommends the car, she would not buy it because "the gas mileage was horrible -- worse than my minivan."[/quote] No sh*t Sherlock?!?!?! It has 2 more cylinders and A LOT more performance! (Private investigator pun intended) [quote]Rovik's husband, Chris, complained that nothing on the Lucerne's exterior said it had a V-8. "You know men," Rovik said. "They have to have everybody know what's under the hood, like the Hemi."[/quote] I tend to agree here.... GM for far too long hasn't created enough cache around it's powertrains (Like Dodge has for Hemi or Honda has for VTEC) Those of us "in the know" obviously know when a Lucerne has a V8 by the number of portholes on the fender, which I think these people should've noted. But I guess a detail like that could be easily over looked. At least, until Buick better re-establishes it as a hallmark. [quote]Usually I just bump the car behind me.[/quote] :blink: Yet another reason why I insist on parking 200 yards out in the parking lot or deck FAR away from everyone else. [quote]The men on the panel said they didn't like the car's name. "The French-sounding names have got to go," Tassi said. "They sound really prissy."[/quote] I don't think Lucerne was the best choice either BUT women DO make the majority of large or durable goods, purchase decisions in this market. [quote]"A man at a gas station asked if this was the new Buick," Alexander said. "I told him, 'Yes,' and asked him what he thought of it. He said, 'It's good. They (Buick) finally got it right.'" Alexander said he agreed with the stranger's comment.[/quote] It'd be interesting to see if this reaction would be the same in other parts of the country... I think it would be; to an extent.

Gasp!!!! AB-SO-LUTELY NOT!!!! He prefers the stodgy ride of all old farts; the Toyota or Lexus Camry (ES330) I thought they were functional?!?!? (For cooling only, but functional none the less) GRRRR... I know this is somewhat true, but it angers me anyway. Overall a pretty positive review.... But already GM needs to address some issues. They should introduce a Lucerne Super with a better V8, nicer interior and better transmission. (Wishful thinking I know, but still it be a huge Buick revival)

[quote]Asked when Toyota will surpass GM in China, Inaba said: "That is a long-distance race and we are only in the first round of it."[/quote] WHEN!?!?!? I guess it's a given then????? [quote]I cant believe the chinese are accually going to buy the japanese products[/quote] Why not???? After all, we buy german and japanese products by the bushel, despite their war crimes against us... Besides, Toyota is perfect, remember? I'm sure their PR department has been working the same miracles (Makes me wonder) there that they have here. [quote]Toyota has been in China for decades, and faces strong competition from Hyundai as well as GM and Volkswagen. Being Japanese is still a problem for Toyota in China and unlike Chevrolet or Buick they don't have a unified marketing and dealer network.[/quote] GOOD! It's about damn time they didn't get the world HANDED to them like they have everywhere else, ESPECIALLY in the U.S. whilst we can't even export a significant volume of cars into their country. [quote]I don't think politics has anything to do with car buying decisions.[/quote] Although it should... Not a major influence but somewhat of a security influence. [quote]The Chinese are smart people. Like most Americans[/quote] Sure, the Chinese are smart people for protecting their industry UNlike most americans, whose intelligence and logic I often question. [quote]Besides, TOYOTA has all the money in the world to build new plants all over the world unlike GM.[/quote] True that.

GM REALLY needs to get this under control! ASAP! I've noticed build defects in a lot of GM cars on the lots lately and when I got up close to the 2 Solsti I've seen I could also pick out a few sketchy areas... Of course, I'm a restorer so I'm pretty detail oriented.

Woe is me....:D It was a nice review. But I was, as always being a sarcastic ass with the earlier post, not an Emo kid (I hate emo kids...Go figure eh :huh: )

WOW! Those are amazing! I often look on ebay for old GM signs but never have any luck... I found an old Pontiac sign around Charlotte, neon and all, but they restored the dealership into "Pontiac Point," a restaurant and used the sign. Well, I guess we know what balthazar and 68 can order me for Christmas now. :D

[quote]Like many Americans, Barack Obama was stunned last week when General Motors announced plans to lay off a quarter of its manufacturing workforce -- some 30,000 people -- and shutter a dozen North American factories by 2008.[/quote] This perfectly sums up how IGNORANT most americans are... Seriously.... Has this guy not watched the news in a few YEARS?!?!?!? [quote]But Obama, a Democratic senator from Illinois,[/quote] And that makes my statement above all the more priceless. [quote]was in a position to do something about the latest sign of U.S. industrial meltdown. He has introduced legislation that would relieve American automakers of part of their retiree health-care costs if, in exchange, they promise to invest a portion of their savings in production of fuel-efficient vehicles.[/quote] Depends.... Will these "fuel efficient vehicles" make money for GM, or be a perpetual loss like all hybrids of the world now? [quote]It seems to cushion Detroit from a series of management mistakes over the last decade -- specifically, its sustained bet on gas-guzzling SUVs.[/quote] I don't see why all in the media think this was such a HUGE mistake... Wall Street certainly enjoyed the record profits, consumers obviously like these vehicles and GM paid it's healthcare and pension... Seems like a pretty smart move to me.. Sure, GM should not have abandoned the car side of the business BUT, if the only way the company can make money because of legacy costs is to invest in a part of the market that is unpopular with media zealots and all the new found self righteous 'oil saver' analysts and public schmoes, then so be it... GM's job is to make money, not satisfy personal agendas from starving journalists or trend of the week fat cat analysts... and they chose the right path to do so. GOOD business move IMO. [quote]In effect, it punishes rivals such as Toyota for having the foresight and initiative to develop hybrids and other fuel-saving cars.[/quote] (Another Toyota humper :rolleyes:) Oh well.... Toyota didn't build this economy.... Toyota isn't supporting thousand of american pensions and Toyota isn't employing MOST of the american automotive work force. [quote]Because the United States, alone among advanced nations, has chosen to link health insurance to the workplace, it has also imposed a business cost that is no longer sustainable in a global economy. It's not just that taxpayers pick up part or all of the bill in Japan, Britain, Germany, France, Australia, Taiwan and other developed nations, lifting part of the expense off business. It's that these nations, by streamlining administrative costs and creating universal coverage pools, have also achieved vastly lower costs. Americans spent $5,274 per person on health care in 2002, according to the World Health Organization. The comparable figure in Canada was $2,931. In Germany it was $2,817. In Australia, $2,699 and in Japan, $2,133. All these countries, by the way, had better overall health indicators than the United States.[/quote] WOW! Finally some in the media and government *might* be catching on to the GREAT scam that is HEALTH CARE in america, and to boot might actually be seeing that we're about to lose our ass on the industry forefront.

That's GOSPEL right there!!! If GM could LEARN to market, they would probably be doing A LOT better right now. PRICELESS!! Toyota was NEVER the hybrid leader, Honda had the Insight LONG before the Prius came along. Yet, neither Honda, nor Ford, nor GM get NEARLY the credit that Toyota has milked. EXCELLENT and accurate.

EXCELLENT READ!! Oh and as for the UAW.... I'd be willing to bet on a strike. After all, they haven't seen the light after 30 years of loses, so why would they see the light now? REMEMBER: Pride is more important than survival! :rolleyes: