FUTURE_OF_GM

GOSPEL! As long as it's still a head turning beauty, that's fine by me. GM HAS to be efficient to survive.

True that... I've been on that emotional roller coaster for a few years now... But it's worse now because GM gave all these insiders a sneak peek and created RARE positivity to hold on to in the war of anti-GM spiel and now those people are saying things that make us believe that it was all cruel irony.... I'm not placing blame but it's a very hard time to be a *POSITIVE* GM fan.

Still confused... Quote some KoRn or Dry Kill Logic and I'll comprehend :D

Okay, I'm confused. :blink: So, if this is delayed and GMT361 is delayed, both of which are VOLUME products for GM's VOLUME division, then what the hell is GM planning on producing? Seriously... This cancellation and postponement dance is getting old and GM's fate is being sealed by the day. The domestics have finally been debilitated almost entirely.

They ended that partnership.

The windshield is WAY too upright, as with the sub-theta drawings we saw. It seems to have the new corporate Chevy nose which is attractive. Nice thick C pillar and that taught aggressive bobbed tail featured on the SS concept. I don't like the warped beltline look of the current G6 and I don't like it here. 300 and Aura-esque fender surrounds look nice and aggressive and finished. Meh, not bad.... But PM is only accurate 50% of the time and I tend to trust Chris more.

Meh.... I don't think the styling is all that great. The entire package is okay, sure, I mean, after all it is a Lexi. But, that's all Toyota needs to be THE best manufacturer in the business is styling raves, so Dan Neil is obviously "Giving dues" and in the all important LA Times to beat all. Anyway, the lighting treatment is old news... GM has been doing detail lighting for a few years now (SSR, Lucerne is one of the more attractive, CTS, STS, XLR) and BMW has been doing it for a few GENERATIONS of their cars. As for the overall look of the car.... Just looks like a pissed off anime character to me; hardly as attractive as any european entries or american entries.

Hmmm... Let's see. An economy car for a division that actually has real growth potential (Rare at GM, sadly) in a segment that GM doesn't have much presence and needs a strong car or two.... Or another GMT900, a declining segment where GM is well established... I'm not speaking against the 900s as I've been a big advocate of speeding them up, but GM needs to grow it's presence on the car side, especially in small cars, and Saturn is the most logical source as it has the greatest potential to conquest and pick up sales... ESPECIALLY if the new design theme holds.

LMAO!!! The Escalade has really grown on me!

Welcome dlee... And I'll second that! The car is a knock out home run and I'll be adding a third Camaro to my collection if it comes to showrooms looking like this! Oh, and BTW, everyone I've shown the picture to LOVES it.

EXCELLENT POST!!! Many of GM's problems as well as their products problems are FUNDAMENTAL in nature and blatantly obvious. And that's what makes it so painful to see GM fall like it is. They HAVE the technology, they HAVE the designers, they HAVE the resources... They have EVERYTHING needed to design excellent products, yet the fundamental error is that they have no idea how to put 1+1 together to equal 2... And that's a very painful and annoying realization for GM enthusiasts and probably contributes a lot to the resentment of Americans and the media. For example... If I'm planning a DYNAMIC volume product for Pontiac and I know these factors. 1) It needs to appeal to a majority of the population and on top of that it needs to appeal to consumers who are steadily turning their backs on Pontiac. 2) It needs to not only "compete" with the competition in one of the hottests segments of the market but has to be BETTER than that competiton This segment has been dominated by Asian manufacturers and their golden reputation for years now. 3) Pontiac needs a renaissance and is in the middle of trying to bill itself as the performance division of the world's largest automaker and has a HUGE reputation for that which it must live up to. 4) The car absolutely needs to be something that cannot be found in a Chevrolet or Saturn dealership or it will be a lost cause. So the stakes are high for image, performance and recognition. One would think that GM management could see this and would act accordingly since it has all the resources at hand. But no, GM then puts out the G6 with subjective dated styling a "rental car" OHV detuned V6 and a chassis that can't even run with the segment leaders. On top of that they're going to spend the money to 1) Put exact spec performance versions at BOTH Chevrolet and Pontiac dealership, which is going to suffocate the G6. And then 2) Make a Saturn version that is essentially everything the G6 should've been. Why GM? Why make the fundamental mistakes that are so painfully obvious? Welcome to consumption junction... Welcome to america It's not who you are, it's who you buy.

Interesting.... But doubtful that Congress will act. And even if they do it'll probably be something to promote the growth of the transplants as that seems to be the current theme in this country and would, of course, be following what seems to be EVERY other policy Congress has towards domestic industry

Well, after taking the PR beating for 20 years, I guess they decided to focus on the essentials (Which, IIRC is what one article ACTUALLY said about GM) But now, even after the press bitched about BMW i Drive forever, it seem that as the asian companies introduce the technology and gadgets and gizmos, then all of the sudden it's en vogue. Another technolgoy GM was FAR ahead on (But it still had issues) was cylinder deactivation.

Yes... Part of this is innovation, part anti-GM sentiment. GM could save the world and i wouldn't be good enough; Toyota plants a tree and we read it on the front page. (You know, their current green house crap)

Splendid... :rolleyes: Probably the destruction of GM's mighty comeback plan.... cancellations, postponments If GM cans the entire Staurn division then they're COMPLETELY ignorant... But, that would be typical... A) Just as they get it right they can it and B) Show awesome cars, then deny the public access to them.

In an idealistic world I think this would be perfect... That leaves Chevrolet and Saturn as GM's mass market VOLUME divisions, and they're the divisions that have the BIGGEST potential for growth. And I'd love to see a hot RWD Pontiac line that competes with BMW as GM's TRUE performance division. On the other hand, a switch to RWD would most certainly mean a LOWER (overall) volume Pontiac division, especially from a few years back... Hmmm.... I agree... BUT it would have to be a car worthy of the GTO designation... I don't want a lame duck G6 with a new nose.... I want an aggressively designed, Pontiac-mean G6 with an even meaner GTO that'll eat performance cars for dinner. I agree 100%. BUT, GM would have to do enough to differentiate the Camaro and GTO so they don't cannabalize each other like the Camaro and T/A did...

TO SURVIVE!

[quote]Despite public perception, the answer is not that foreign automakers are more productive or offer better-quality or more fuel-efficient vehicles. In this year's Harbour Report, which measures manufacturing productivity, GM plants took three of the top five spots in North America, including first place. In the latest J.D. Power Initial Quality Study, GM's Buick and Cadillac ranked among the top five vehicle brands sold in America, ahead of nameplates like Toyota, Honda, Acura, Nissan, Infiniti and Mercedes-Benz. And GM offers more models that get over 30 miles per gallon (highway) than any other automaker.[/quote] EXCELLENT COMMENTS!!! But Rick, the consumer will not know this unless you tell them.... GM still continues to do a HORRIBLE job of getting the message out on just about EVERY positive aspect of the company and it's products. [quote]So why, fundamentally, are GM and the U.S. auto industry struggling right now?[/quote] We all know the answer to that.... IMAGE, IMAGE, IMAGE!!!!! And until GM presents a better image and until those who control pop culture and popular opinion (The media) start giving GM it's dues then your sales will continue to falter, REGARDLESS of how great the product is... If the consumer is automatically steered away from the product and never experiences it first hand then all the good product in the world 'couldn't help GM put it's sales back together again.' [quote]Our ability to compete has made us the world's No. 1 automaker for 74 consecutive years, and we're fighting hard to stay on top.[/quote] You'd better be prepared to fight hard! [quote]There are those who ask if manufacturing is still relevant for America. My view: You bet it is! Manufacturing generates two-thirds of America's R&D investment, accounts for three-fourths of our exports, and creates about 15 million American jobs. And the auto industry is a big part of that, accounting for 11 percent of American manufacturing, and nearly 4 percent of U.S. GDP. Together, GM, Ford and DaimlerChrysler invest more than $16 billion in research and development every year -- more than any other U.S. industry. And GM, alone, supports more than one million American jobs.[/quote] Or in other words: F*ck Toyota and their "380,000 jobs"---which is a falsified figure to begin with. I think this is a very good statement that should be yelled from the roof tops of the big three to average consumers. These companies STILL contribute FAR more to the economy than the transplants, you know the "new domestics" that all these analysts and liberal media/professor types like to trumpet as our savior and futures. I'm sure somone here (I won't name any names though) will come on record and contradict this statement though and downplay what Wagoner said in order to reassure the sheep... And what's sad is these people ARE the opinion leaders that guide the masses. The only way people will know of THIS fact is if GM and Ford and Chrysler DIRECTLY get the message out. WSJ is a good start BUT not enough! [quote]Some argue that we have no one but ourselves to blame for our disproportionately high health-care "legacy costs." That kind of observation reminds me of the saying that no good deed going unpunished.[/quote] It's also called the "Just world phenomenon" in psychology and is the idea that "Everyone gets what they deserve" and often results in people blaming the victim for their own demise.... Example: Eddie got killed in a car wreck. A bystander would then say "Eddie shouldn't have been going so fast, then maybe he wouldn't have gotten killed" when in reality a flat tire, certainly not Eddie's fault (Just as healthcare and the goodwill of providing it isn't a FAULT of GM) caused Eddie to lose control. [quote]American manufacturers were once held up as good corporate citizens for providing these benefits. Today, we are maligned for our poor judgment in "giving away" such benefits 40 years ago.[/quote] And Merry Christmas my friends... IMO, manufacturing IN GENERAL has a very bad name now in this country thanks to "the street" and the "educated" lot thinking that blue collar workers are less significant human beings. Imagine that; GM being a good citizen and then being punished for it.... Kinda like GM making the cars people WANT and then being punished for it by slanderous media.... Or kinda like GM investing in a LONG TERM energy solution and then being lambasted for it by a short sighted public, bias media and vote hungry, popular opinion swayed government...Typical America and TYPICAL reactions to one of our own businesses, ESPECIALLY when it comes to the much maligned "inferior" auto industry and rust belt. [quote]Another factor beyond our control is lawsuit abuse. Litigation now costs the U.S. economy more than $245 billion a year, or more than $845 per person. That's more than 2 percent of our GDP. No other country has costs anywhere near this level. And the perverse thing is that, in many cases, the majority of courtroom settlements go to the lawyers and other litigation costs, not to the injured parties.[/quote] I'm glad to see SOMEONE finally raising this issue.... I witnessed this first hand when the greedy lawyers destroyed our tobacco industry in NC.... Did it close the tobacco makers? Absolutely not. Did it reduce young smokers? Not by the looks of things, almost EVERYONE around here that is my age and that I know smokes. Did it make the families of lost loved ones feel better? Probably not, money can't buy happiness and they didn't get much money, if any. Did it make a few back stabbing lawyers rich and cost the common man more for goods... ABSOLUTELY! [quote]Another major concern is unfair trading practices, especially Japan's long-term initiatives to artificially weaken the yen. A leading Japanese automaker reports that for each movement of one yen against the dollar, it gains 20 billion yen in additional profitability -- or nearly $170 million at today's exchange rate. No wonder Japanese automakers have noted their recent record profits were aided by exchange rates. And no wonder the U.S. trade-balance deficit continues to grow by leaps and bounds.[/quote] Washington should've fixed this long ago... And I *CERTAINLY* hope it comes back to bite this naive country right square in the ass. [quote]Some say we're looking for a bailout. Baloney -- we at GM do not want a bailout. What we want -- after we take the actions we are taking, in product, technology, cost and every area we're working in our business today -- is the chance to compete on a level playing field.[/quote] GOSPEL!!!!! Yet some are still too oblivious to see this argument. a.k.a. THE GOVERNMENT. Good luck Rick, I hope you have lots of money to sway the politicians for change, because that's the only way Washington works these days... Money talks and the politicians serve those who talk the loudest.

Now now... As with stalling Priuses, a *NEW* technology, the manufacturer should be given a chance right? Oh, wait, that's only if it's Japanese..... My bad. Seriously though, I liked the name Displacement on Demand better. And for god's sake GM, ADVERTISE!!!!! I didn't even know that D.O.D. had spread accross the line that quickly.

What's even MORE ironic is that *everyone* said that Daimler would teach Chrysler how to build "quality" cars, yet Mercedes continues to score lower than Chrysler in quality surveys.

SPREAD THAT PROPAGANDA!!!!!! I'd like to see a similar study done on GM... Then we'll see who contributes more.. But, I'm sure "this" will become the prevalent theme of the media and Toyota and ultimately, the attitudes of Americans. Dear Hudson.... It seems that you're so willing to see GM fail. Why the grudge? Sure GM is not a charity, but they have done and continue to do FAR MORE for this economy and nation than Toyota.

And the author establishes the initial BAD first impression and all the while reaffirms and reassures import drivers that they are STILL correct by purchasing import over domestic. And I'm not quite sure what this means..... Unless it's the author trying to pit GM's divisions against each other... You know, same dedicated buyer base ONLY to canabalize sales. Or maybe it's just a dig at Caddy, or just to confuse the reader.

It's just more SUBJECTIVE (READ: without substantial proof) reasoning for the media to continue to justify their bias... They have to have some way of telling themselves that they're still correct in assuming their biases of imported=better, so they always find something to focus on... Reliability, panel gaps, quality of interior material and the next step; retail/image (Prius=good image, Hummer=bad for example) It's the same sort of thing that appeals to a staunch Conservative or Liberal. You can argue the opposite view to them all day, but in the end they will STILL find a way to justify their bias or decision, no matter how outlandish it is or has become, because to retrench would be admitting guilt or that they were wrong and effects ideal self too negatively. It's a proven point in psychology... Reducing dissonance. And therein lies my major gripe with the American media.... FACT is no longer FACT... OPINION is now FACT. They make the news, establish their fan base, and wrap their garbage up into a nice, tidy soundbite and all the LIKE MINDED people feast. Yet, the typical american is clueless..... Clueless that he/she should not take someone's opinion as gospel and oblivious to the fact that he/she is nothing more than a sheep.

NICE!!!!!! Congrats man!!!

The M5 is hard to beat... Yet, as nice as the STS-V is I don't understand why GM would KNOWINGLY put out a performance car that simply doesn't OUT PERFORM the competition... This is a typical GM "Get it in the ballpark" or "Just good enough" or "At least competitive" logic..... I'm happy, but sad. :rolleyes: