FUTURE_OF_GM

99% of Americans and Toyota, no doubt for bragging rights (Just as GM touts the title in all of it's press releases today) Size does matter to Americans, especially since most of them still think GM is untouchable. Many will show concern, many will cheer and many will comment on it. It will be a MONUMENTAL event to say that Americans are no longer the leading automotive producers and we'll hear about it too in a big way. That has pretty much already happened. I agree... Number 1 is nice, but once you go up there's no where to go but down. The thing I worry about is downsizing... Specifically the downsizing of more divisions and volume. GM doesn't have to be number 1, but i DO wish they would stabilize and stop losing share.

So basiclly, as always, Toyota is using every bit of this to their PR advantage while glossing the numbers, or in other words playing on a hidden 'catch 22' And why is GM not counting their sales this way???? Why is GM not defending itself in the press????? I'm sure we'll hear a steadily increasing amount of stories proclaiming Toyota to be #1. Then just as everyone freaks out and believes it, Toyota will quietly concede the truth (Just like they did a couple of years ago with the Ford fiasco) Of course, no one will hear it. The intolerable 'GM death march' howling will be too loud.

No big surprise... They'll drop GM, just like they turned against them 3 years ago. Toyota is where the money is and it's where America's loyalty and lust will be placed. As always, money talks. A.K.A. Thanks to globalization, America is losing more and more of it's industry and power. Yet, we and the feds are too naive to address the problem or talk about it candidly and in a straight forward manner.

Oh well... I posted, I feel better and that's all that counts.... This is a voluntary, opinion based forum. Post what you want and read what you want. Or at least that's my take on it. No offense man, but I know your feelings on this and I agree to an extent.. But to have the kind of strict commentary that you desire would require ONLY insiders post and would pretty much defeat the purpose of a PUBLIC board all together in my opinion.

LOL... What a surprise! (Yeah right) A Honda sweep!!!! I guess they (the media) figure that since they kickstarted Toyota and it's doing well that now it's time to laviish Honda in praise and seal the number 2 spot for them. Don't be surprised when the North American COTY/TOTY mirrors this, because it usually does. The Ridgeline isn't impressive at all. (Unless you want a bloated, avalanche knock off with sub par power and poor fit and finish) Oh and BTW, it must've been the blind man that said Honda did interiors better than anyone else, because the new interiors (Ridgeline and Civic especially) are god-awful.

Well, first off; I'd love to listen but I can't... Secondly, It's been the same negativity about GM for 3 years now. Why should we think it anything else? And all of my 'shooting' at least is based on what I read.

The plan is working!!! Go Toyota!!! And the anti-Detroit people continue to get exactly what they want! Trying to get those last punches in before Detroit so as to offset the positive news I guess.

Or the obvious negative effects of the "great global economy" and our lack of consideration for the companies that built this nation as we've lost our way and started the downhill slide. Again, please note that this is my opinion.... Listen for yourself.

[quote]Profitability per Vehicle Source: 2005 Harbour Report GM: Loses $2,331 per vehicle Toyota: Makes $1,488 per vehicle[/quote] This is a simplistic explanation of a drastic and huge problem. [quote]Production Time per Vehicle Source: 2005 Harbour Report GM: 34.3 hours, 2.5% improvement since 2003 Toyota: 27.9 hours, 5.5% improvement since 2003[/quote] Another very important comparison. [quote]North American Workforce Source: GM & Toyota, Dec. 2005 GM: White collar: 36,000 Production: 106,000. Retirees: 460,000 Toyota: White collar: 17,000 Production: 21,000 Retirees: 1,600 Health Care Costs per Vehicle in 2004 Source: 2005 Harbour Report & A.T. Kearny Inc. GM: $1,525 Toyota: $201[/quote] By comparison, those Toyota workers enjoy the same luxuries as those GM workers... (Sarcasm) [quote]Average Hourly Salary for Non-Skilled, Assembly Line Worker Source: Center for Automotive Research GM: $31.35/hour NOTE: Includes idle workers still on payroll and those on protected status. Toyota: $27/hour NOTE: Includes year-end bonus.[/quote] Yep, Toyota sure does pay it's employees as well as GM does... (Sarcasm) [quote]Worldwide Vehicle Production Projected for 2005 Source: 2005 Harbour Report GM: 9 million Manufacturing operations in 32 countries, vehicles sold in 200 countries Toyota: 8.4 million Manufacturing operations in 26 countries and regions, vehicles sold in over 170 countries[/quote] Proving that once again, America will be the reason that Toyota prevails and GM suffers. [quote]Only one other major employer around Atlanta pays such high wages for industrial work. That's Ford, which could close its plant as well.[/quote] Anybody else see anything wrong with this??? GM and Ford, they pay so well, yet this country hates them so much... Go figure. [quote]Post has a 22-year-old son. He used to work as a temp at the Atlanta plant. Post told his son that if he wanted to be an auto worker, he should get a job at Toyota.[/quote] EXCELLENT attitude!!!!!! And from a GM employee none the less. (Sarcasm) It shows that our culture has conditioned these people to think that Toyota is better and that GM will never be successful again IMO... You know, if you tell someone something enough then they'll begin to believe it. GM's employees show this trait and so does the general public for what it's worth. And all because the FEW 'opinion makers' turned on GM a long time ago. Oh and BTW, I see that the guest was the great NEGATIVITY and Detroit death proprietor Michelin Maynard... Can't wait to hear this "Detroit is dead--and it's because we have so many better NEW domestic automakers" propaganda piece. EDIT: BTW, this last statement is pure opinion on my part and no I haven't actually listened to the interview (because I can't--my computer won't allow it)

I can't listen to it.... But would like to know what was said... Given that it's NPR and that the perspective seems to be from employees and it's pretty much 'us verses them' right now... And the fact that it deals with GM; I'll go ahead and assume that it's negative and I'll go ahead and expect the worst.

What exactly is in that Honda kool-aid? Or ignorance and blind loyalty.... Opinions, opinions..... Gotta love 'em! :D I agree.... Both the HHR and H3 have revolutionary performance in the market place, with the H3 virtually saving Hummer after 2 years of "drive a Prius" media commentary and lambasting and the HHR making it cool to be young and drive a Chevy once again. And eventhough I hate the very fabric of Toyota's existence, I can't deny that the FJ Cruiser is cool. In fact, A LOT cooler than the wannabe/poser Ridgeline. I agree... There is nothing REVOLUTIONARY about the new Civic. Sure it's a strong entry, typical of Honda, but the interior is a disaster IMO and the exterior isn't much better. It is selling well though and at least the Si is worthy of it's badge now. But, the Fusion and the Solstice on the other hand.... The Solstice is in the process of COMPLETELY transforming Pontiac's image. it IS, essentially the first "gotta have" product from a corporation AND a division that have been slowly dieing for 2 decades now. And the Fusion.... Talk about a surprise hit. Ford did their homework, and is showing the world that they CAN INDEED compete wih the Asians in the mid size sedan segment yet again, and in fact, IMO, out perform them. Best of all, both are DOMESTICs that people ACTUALLY want to buy based on merit! They are the very turning point we've all been so desperately waiting for.

I'm sure it doesn't feel as soft on your face if you want to take a nap on it or something and therefore will be dismissed. Over all I'm very impressed. It's an attractive looking car that appears to be high quality. The fuel mileage does need to improve though, and I'm sure we'll get all sorts of bad PR saying "Isn't the very purpose of this car to save fuel?!?!" It'll be interesting to see what everyone says, but, IMHO the Chevrolet sedans are getting better by the day.

And I'm sure most of them will with a whole new unprecedented low of criticizing GM with formulated facts and personal insults, or little to no coverage at all (Like with the LA show last year) I'm sure the technology isn't as good as Toyota's though... ;) I agree... Of course, IMO, NAIAS has been lackluster for GM since 2002 and 2003.

Tadross seems to be anti-GM enough. But I think these are the first true words he's offered on the subject. GM will be FORCED into bankruptcy IMO, either by the media or the street, which ever decides to push them over the edge.

I agree and disagree... Marketing is still a HUGE factor and one that GM can't do effectively IMO. But, I agree that, in some instances, it is blatantly obvious that certain cars are hits. But, why would you smile at a Prius? Why is the Camry such a huge hit? What about the Silverado or Tahoe with their 'cheap' interiors and 'huge' panel gaps. I think the simple answer is marketing at it's core and it's influence through the media. the Prius is popular not because of the product nessecerily, but because of the image associated with it which has been built by pop culture (favorable media coverage) and marketing. The Camry, successful why? because of it's reputation which has been built partially by product but also by a VERY clear message that it is an 'everymans' car that gets you safely from point A to point B. I could go on and on.... The singular point of it all though, IMO, is that these cars are successful partially (The other part being the product itself) BECAUSE the consumer is WELL INFORMED about WHAT they are WHY they should buy them and HOW they (meaning the buyer) will be perceived for the purchase. GM's models and divisions NEED this identity built for them before they can ever hope to be successful.

Another great post... And one that inspires a lot of confidence.

Excellent post! And, speaking from a personal standpoint; I love my Camaros and I've spent a lot of money restoring them over many years. The offerings from GM today, DESPITE my being an avid GM enthusiast do not create that same excitement fo me. If GM can get the fundamentals right, then GM will be succesful again. They must 1) Invest in BETTER technology. Being 'good enough' isn't enough anymore. This "the customer doesn't care what powers the car, as long as it goes" attitude concerning the OHV V6's is a prime example. yes, the customer may not care about the technicalities of the engine. BUT, the people who influence the customers decision to buy the car (the media) DO. And, even if the customer doesn't care about the technical aspect of the car, they still care A LOT about numbers, such as horsepower and fuel mileage. I've always been a fan of OHV motors and I still am, especially GM V8's. But class leading performance is sorely needed for GM right now and if they can't get the OHV technology to be class leading then it's time to change. 2) Research and understand image and why people are attracted to certain cars. GM has failed miserably at both understanding AND marketing MOST of their cars in relation to their prospective buyer. The DTS, for example, should've been sent Buicks way and Cadillac should be working on a sigma based replacement to compete with the euros instead. I know Cadillac needed to retain the sales and that alone might make my point null and void. But the characteristics and market for the DTS are more as a premium Buick. 3) GM must give us appealing, great designs. Design sells, period. That's especially true in this day in age where one can buy a $9000 Aveo that'll run just as long as a 60,000 Mercedes. As Peter Delorenzo would say; design is going to increasingly become the make it or break it element of this business now that reliability is on par, technology has been embraced and performance is expected, not optional. As it should.... Oldsmobile's death SHOULD be avenged... Oh and, it's news to me that 1) GM was hemoraging cash when Oldsmobile was phased out and 2) Oldsmobile was phased out in the early 90's.... This author needs to get his facts straight.

It's this line: That worries me.

WOW! A better review than MOST auto rags... Then again, auto rags stop being professional YEARS ago.

[quote]There was a time when a big Chevrolet was considered cool.[/quote] Like now. [quote]its SUVs and trucks, dazzle only through sheer size.[/quote] Umm okay.... People buy Tahoes only because they're big.... Yeah right. [quote]Even otherwise good cars, like the Impala sedan, have the visual excitement of a decent sport coat.[/quote] Better than the visual excitement of a tan turtleneck sweater; like the Camry. [quote]Eye-catching design has certainly worked for the Chrysler Group of DaimlerChrysler. Cars like the Chrysler 300 and Dodge Magnum sell well without heavy incentives. Both cars are proportioned to look as if they could have driven straight out of a comic book.[/quote] Wow, imagine that.... DESIGN SELLS a consumer driven PRODUCT in a hyper competitive market Just wow! Way to think GM!!!!! [quote]Chevrolet will get things rolling with its own version of the Aura sedan, said Hall, who was treated to a peek at the new Chevrolet sedan. He called the new Chevrolet design even more striking than the Saturn.[/quote] Great..... Another "We're out of ideas so we'll copy the flavor of the week" GM offering.... I certainly hope not. [quote]Better design could be enough to get buyers to consider a GM vehicle when, in the past, they would have gone with a Toyota or Honda as, simply, a safer bet.[/quote] Keep telling yourself that... Besides, this 'Bu was cancelled aparently...... Or maybe not.... Hell, who knows? (The NG Malibu) Unless this article is in fact talking about the EpII Malibu, which, best I know, hasn't been shown to anyone outside of GM yet.

Well we all know who will get truck of the year since the media has been yankin' it over the Ridgeline (EVEN despite poor public reception) for a year now and all this despite it being ugly, copy-cat and not that sensible. The Explorer, according to MT "Is only good enough for old Explorer owners to trade up to"---You know, limit the sales of a #1, best selling, money maker, money spent redesign to an already dieing segment of loyalists to hamper demand, no big surprise. The Solstice deserves COTY and I'd also like to see the Fusion get it. But my bets are on the Civic, cheesy and 80s-retroesque/Prius knock off as it is. A Honda sweep....Hmmm....They are automotive gods after all :rolleyes:

But it's not a Honda, therefore it doesn't count. The Solstice GXP sounds GREAT! Wish Pontiac did have a surprise for us though... Will the Yukon XL Denali also be at LA? (I assume it will be) LOL "Pontiac's renaissance zooms forward..." a pun on mazda maybe?!?!?! LOL. Kinda boring overall.... GM should've taken this opportunity to INCREASE their exposure in that market IMO. Other cars that NEED the GXP motor = Cobalt & HHR IMO.

GM should leave the Aura alone... It's one of the FEW successful car's they'll have. Of course, once again, that would be typical GM...Get it right and either kill it or severely handicapp it. I certainly hope GM has an alternate plan... If they just let the current cars wither in the market for an undetermined amount of time then they're screwed and will probably NEVER make a significant comeback in the segment. Sad to see GM cancel so many of the "revision" plans that were supposed to help themn so much and I'm sure we'll continue to hear the GLOOM and DOOM march at a fever pitch from the "disrespected" and already negative analysts and media.

Not really... It's easier to sue an American company in America. Yeah, all 10-15% of them :rolleyes: VERY subjective. Obviously 2 different solutions to those who KNOW anything about business. Complete :bs: and opinion.. Same sh*t; different day. More anti-GM spiel from an OBVIOUSLY anti-GM/Detroit author.

WAY TO GO GM!!!!! Show signs of a revivial and then just give up!!!