FUTURE_OF_GM

That is probably the best post I've read in a long time. My take: (On the options listed) Product line-up (overlaps, segmentation) This is the single biggest problem at GM IMO... If they utilized ALL of their divisions in a correct way and built ALL of their offerings to the standards of those set in their enthusiasts cars, GM would probably be the best auto company in the world right now. Product isn't a cure all... But it's a logical and huge first step... It can cure sales, it can cure perception and it can cure quality problems (If done right) Quality control This is the second biggest problem at GM... Sure, GM has come a long way and they DO NOT have a reliability problem anymore. But the issue lies in the perception of this fact. The consumer simply has not been informed well enough that it is safe to invest in a GM vehicle. Most consumers STILL think it's the 70's and the same old Detroit; an image perpetuated constantly by the media and analysts. (For personal gain) GM will never recover unless it invest HEAVILY in informing the consumer where it stands on quality and value. I do not understand why this is so hard for GM, and Ford for that matter, to understand. They have a negative image of building crap and building that crap for 20 years. Product alone will not change this image and especially will not change it fast enough. GM and Ford assume that they're on a level playing field... They think that Joe Q. Public is automatically going to look at J.D. Power and then pick which car (import or domestic) is right for them, when in reality they are NOT even remotely close to that level playing field. EVERY consumer has been conditioned to believe that either domestics are not reliable or that imports are better automatically... STRIKE 1.... Then the consumer reads a negative story on the vehicle or worse yet, the company or even worse still the "Big 3" lump in general...STRIKE 2... Then the consumer talks to friends; friends which know that it's not priority to buy a domestic and friends that have been influenced by the same negative rhetoric regarding domestics and...STRIKE 3. Gm isn't even considered anymore. I'd be willing to bet that a large part of the population doesn't even register domestics on their radar screen. GM (Or GM and Ford...Or the "Big 3"---since they're grouped that way, might as well use it as an advantage) needs to launch a massive campaign much like Kia did with it's 10 year/100,000 mile campaign. Cost control - too fat This is as much a problem as anything else. Economy - they can't help it This plays a large role too, but can't be controlled. RE: The cut: That's just Tadross for you

Judging by this article, it doesn't take a college education. But rather just a pop culture opinion that you think matters, a thesaurus and a grudge. There actually is NO fact in the article.

I dunno if I'm a fan... BUT, call it Corvair! :D F Ralphie boy Nader by the way!!!

Agree 100%!!! HHR has proven to be one of the FEW GM vehicles popular with the under 30 set here. And this is a very anti-GM and anti-Detroit area. Agree 100%!!! The 'journalists' are just angry because a GM vehicle is capturing the youth. The youth that is supposed to be "smarter" and thus automatically turned off of Detroit cars whilst being enthralled by Asian offerings with no soul, no power and a MYTH of quality.

[quote]BMW Mini, all based on universally recognized automotive icons that ring more bells than the Salvation Army's kettle tenders. [/quote] Bullshit.... Nobody knew what a Mini was until the new one enlightened them. [quote]If you reverse engineer the styling of the HHR, to discern what sort of sensibility signed off on it, you would have to conclude that person is older, a lifetime car enthusiast, even an expert, for whom the '49 Sub is not at all esoteric but as familiar as Smoot-Hawley is to Milton Friedman. And, given the popularity of this model in the hermetic culture of hot rodding, you'd be right to conclude that person is a bit of a performance geek.[/quote] So basically what this pompous jackass is trying to say, without it sounding positive, is that the styling sure beats the f*ck out of the bland sushi mobile look of everything else these days... [quote]Just call me Poirot. The man behind the HHR is none other than the very tall and snowcapped 73-year-old classic-car enthusiast Robert Lutz, vice chairman of General Motors and the whip hand over the styling department.[/quote] Bullshit again.... (Wow, this is getting redundant) Anyone who has been REMOTELY privy to the industry for the past 3 years knows that, while this vehicle was championed by Lutz, the man behind the wheel was Bryan Nesbitt... The very YOUNG and small designer. [quote]and you can think of the HHR as the Cobalt wagon hijacked to Toontown.[/quote] Funny... it's selling awfully well to be so toon-ish. Of course, we all knew that anti-Detroiters like you would try to throw water on the flames by the gallon... God forbid GM succeed, for then the sheep might begin to awaken and see the light that has been hidden from them for 10 years by opinion swayers like you. All in the interest of personal grudgery and gain. [quote]a longing for the rockin' good times on Woodward Avenue? — that just doesn't exist in large measure in the mass market. In terms of car culture, the HHR's bid for nostalgia has no antecedent, no referent, no master narrative. It is all echo and no sound. [/quote] LOL... yep, doesn't exist in large measure to the tune of 120,000 per year... PLUS PT sales.... PLUS retro Mustang sales.... PLUS 300 and Charger sales... PLUS SSR sales..... (I'll stop here) FOG THOUGHT: Is this bastard ever going to actually review the car or just take cheap shots at it's styling for the rest of the article? I guess the car's worth is just too strong; so instead of writing about facts, he's decided to just take it on himself to perpetuate a self righteous propaganda campaign against the STYLING of the HHR. [quote]Maybe the HHR will find favor with import-tuning kids and car customizers, but I doubt it[/quote] Too late jackass... Ask anyone under 25 with a pulse and you'll get very positive reactions to the HHR. It is one of the FEW GM offerings that IS appealing to the youth. [quote]Maybe I've made too much of the styling. But what's left, under the retro-themed skin of the HHR, isn't much to talk about. [/quote] Just as I thought.... Too chicken shit to talk about the virtues and value of the vehicle. [quote]couple of odd dimensions, however.[/quote] WTF?!?!?! How's about some facts??????? [quote]anhedonia.[/quote] LOL... yeah, that's it.... Seems like plenty of happy owners are enjoying them just fine. [quote]and many of the surfaces feel like recycled milk jugs. [/quote] ***Ladies and Gentlemen; the new standard for why my import is better than your domestic!!!!*** For those of you that want to rub your ass along the dash without catching a bur or something. [quote]Even with its iPod connections, the HHR couldn't hit hip with a hand grenade. [/quote] Gotta be sure and tell the kiddies!!!!! [quote]And yet, I suspect it will do all right in the market for a year or two. [/quote] Oh... How cute.... Just like the rest of the media, he built in a disclaimer so that his failed assumptions wouldn't be proved wrong before forgotten. [quote]I can easily imagine people in their 50s and 60s picking up the car because of its practical value and because it is essentially effortless to drive. [/quote] **GASP!** You mean, the HHR will actually conquest Honda Element drivers?!?!?!?! What more could we wish for???? Seriously????? You know, 'cause that was such a cool and hip ride!!! The kiddies ate that bad boy right up!!! The ending is at least optimistic but Dan Neil proves to be a little b*tch once again. Some one should abate his arrogant misery with a big fat retro pillow.... Or, better yet a nice, retro, plastic bag. FOG NOTE: This is just another anti-Detroit zealot trying his BEST to throw water on one of GM's hot products... We all knew it would happen and I suspect that almost all of his readers know that he is as anti-GM and anti-Ford as they come. Almost ANY new GM or Ford product that is good this loser rags on. Anyone think I should e-mailed this to Dan Neil?

Exxxxcellent! Now if GM would just get it's act together and OWN every segment like this, we'd see the tides turn.

Wow. That Urge is one ugly mofo. Reminds me of the ORIGINAL Nissan Z car concept (You know, the one that didn't go over well) Oh, ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt! :rolleyes: :D The Mercedes reminds me too much of Maybach meets asiana in the front and Maybach meets Bangle in the rear. The interior, while a bit awkward, looks nice... Minus the plastic centercap on the wheel of course.

And just think..... According to all the 'know it all' analysts and media, launching GMT900 now was a bad idea.

The advantage of OHC over OHV is purely a marketing thing... The yuppie press likes them, so we must play the game in order to survive. Same goes for BORING midsize sedans and useless multi gear automatics.

Strike 1! But I guess the 6 speed auto and hybrid are some redemption at least (Although I wish the hybrid were coming sooner) Buick needs this vehicle to be a SUCCESS and it's needs it yesterday. skepticism... not good. :rolleyes: Thank god someone in the media finally woke up and gave GM credit for this! Merry Christmas you green.....people..... Of course, I'm sure it's not as good as a Toyota because the bolts on the alternator aren't a high grade silver or something....

You know, I thought about that after I posted this. But of that 25% how many share the sentiments of the 75% in the survey?

Most Americans will not buy from bankrupt automaker-survey DETROIT, Dec 28 (Reuters) Almost three of every four American consumers polled would not buy a car from a manufacturer that had declared bankruptcy, according to arecent survey, giving struggling U.S. automaker General MotorsCorp. <GM.N> something else to think about. Seventy-four percent of respondents said they would not purchase or lease a new car from a bankrupt automaker, according to a survey released by Cincinnati-based research firm Directions Research Inc. Twenty-six percent said they would buy from a manufacturer in that position. GM executives have denied speculation they would seek Chapter 11 protection in bankruptcy court. It has lost nearly $4 billion this year amid high health-care and material costs, shrinking U.S. market share and declining sales of lucrative sport utility vehicles. The world's largest automaker said last month it would cut 30,000 North American manufacturing jobs and close a dozen plants as part of its plan to cut costs by $7 billion. The survey indicates consumers would look at a bankrupt automaker very differently from a bankrupt airline. UAL Corp.<UALAQ.OB>, Northwest Airlines Corp. <NWACQ.PK> and Delta AirLines Inc. <DALRQ.PK> sport passenger levels similar to those before they filed for bankruptcy. Other findings in the Directions Research survey releasedon Friday: 72 percent of respondents said they would not consider buying a vehicle from a Chinese automaker, while 85 percent felt the same about an Indian manufacturer. Industry observers have said it is only a matter of time until a Chinese-made vehicle is sold in the United States. Whether such a car would be sold by a Chinese manufacturer under their own brand or by an established automaker with plants in China is still to be determined. Energy prices remain a concern for consumers as well as 62 percent of respondents said high gas prices had influenced the amount of driving they do. Thirty-nine percent of consumers said gas prices would be a primary factor the next time they are in the market to buy a new vehicle, while 48 percent said it would be a secondary factor. Thirteen percent said gasoline prices would have no influence on their decision. Directions Research polled 1,063 adults during the three weeks that ended Dec. 14 and the survey has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The poll was not conducted for any client. ((Reporting by Ben Klayman, editing by Maureen Bavdek; ReutersMessaging: [email protected]; 312-408-8787;[email protected]))REUTERS ***GM: damned if they do and damned if they don't, as usual***

First; this is complete and total bullshit. Secondly, If he's gauging current quality by 1960's cars then he's WAAAAY out of touch. And I'm sure the domestics in question "served their purpose" as well. Afterall, it isn't fundamentally hard to roll from one point to another. Third; unfortunately I think *MOST* americans feel this way, however blind they may be. And lastly; this is also an example of what psychologists call the "just-world phenomenon" where people believe "what comes around, goes around" and some universal sense of justice will be bestowed by a higher power. When in reality this "belief" often only leads to blindly blaming the victim for his/her own demise.

I believe the bias is mostly subconcious and a result of negative exposure to domestic vehicles. The process is an inability to correctly judge merits in a fair manner simply because your own perconceived notions cloud that judgement. Look at it in a racial context; If a person connotates Islam with the events of September 11th, then that person has formed a schema that all of Islam is bad based soley on one negative experience. Therefore that negativity or prejudice will show through in every aspect of their life pertaining to or alluding to Islam. Even negative stimuli in general could evoke hostility toward this group if the person is extremely devout in their views. So, if this person is to write an article about Islam, then it would be hard for them to be completely fair and expose all of the merits of the religion. The article would most likely be based on that persons negative view, the negativity of the religion in comparison or the negative aspects of the religion in general. Therefore; just as it would be difficult for ME to write a fair Toyota review. It's probably just as difficult for Dan Neil to write a fair G6 review.

Maybe just delayed... But I do remember reading that too (Along with the cancelled or delayed MCE of the SRX)

Umm... Okay.. Saying an H1 is the only true Hummer is like saying the original GP is the only true Jeep. If that were the case then Jeep deviated from their roots a LONG time ago with the ghetto barge :D Wagoneer of the 70's that to my knowledge had little off road prowess and then deviated even more with the luxurious soccer mom Grand Cherokee and then commited the unforgivable sin with the unibody Liberty. Better yet, look at the feminine offerings on the way (Patriot, Compass GC SRT-8) More like cars than off road vehicles. Honestly though, I love Hummer and I respect Jeep and they both had to change to continue to be relevant. This news is exciting to me for one main reason though. Since the H2 is now getting the revised powertrain that probably means that it'll be eligable for the new dual mode hybrid system from GMT900 (Or at least one would assume) No more greenies whining. Finally we can shut those people up for good (FOG smiles wide as vengence is his)

But everyone remember: Since these are biased writers and since it's a Detroit source, these must be taken with a grain of salt (Or at least that's what some would have you believe)

You know, I don't really givvva damn whether it takes 3 or 3.9 liters... That's just an "imports are better" affirmation he threw in there and forms that all important NEGATIVE first impression for would be G6 considerations. [quote]the G6 shares componentry and its basic platform with the Saab 9-3, which has always juggled ride and handling pretty well; perhaps it just took some time for the Swedes' chassis tuning to filter down to Lake Orion, Michigan where the G6 is built.[/quote] Ok... whatever.... That's why the 9-3 is panned by critics. And I'm sure the Swedes have that much influence over "Big, Bureaucratic GM" It COULDN'T possibly be GM's extensive experience with sporty Cadillacs or some of the best performance cars in the world. [quote]It's flexible, too, with most of its substantial torque available right from idle, which means you seldom need to downshift the six-speed manual to execute a passing manoeuvre.[/quote] The joy of OHV.... I bet you'd have to downshift that golden--god's gift to poser sports car buyers--3 liter Honda. [quote]The GTP moniker attached to the back of the coupe's clean-cut body, then, might be a bit of a red herring. Previous GTPs were notable for their lack of subtlety - outrageous styling addenda like side strakes and roof rails abetted by raucous engine noises, stiff rides, and huge tires.[/quote] Ummm, okay... because the previous generation GP GTP (The only GTP I can remember) had all of those characteristics. [quote]but it may be lacking the expressiveness that Pontiac buyers are looking for[/quote] Agree 100% but god forbid we add "gimmicky" "cheap" "boy racer" cladding that everyone loves on the new old lady Lancer and granola boy Impreza, because Pontiac would get b8tched to death for that just as they were 5 or 6 years ago.... (Double standard--I think so) [quote]sitting up front, it always looks cars behind are about to rear-end you.[/quote] And how does that relate to a G6 or my decision to buy one? [quote]Though it's roomy and fully-equipped, the GTP's cabin still has a bit of a ways to go before it matches its rivals. While my tester's interior was as solidly-constructed as any I've driven this year, with no squeaks or rattles, the graining of the various surfaces didn't match that well, and there were some pieces - like the entire centre console, for instance - that looked like they were designed as an afterthought. Contrast the G6's flat console with two holes punched into it for cupholders with the Honda Accord's flowing console with its damped storage compartment lid, two-level storage box and extendable, leather-covered armrest. There's a perceptible gap between the G6's console and its (differently-grained) dashboard; the one in the Solara flows right up into the dash, and incorporates more storage, to boot.[/quote] And the import enthusiast oozes out in his knowledge of intricate details.. But I do agree that the G6 interior needs work. Overall I thought it was a pretty good review though!

I have never ONCE said anything about a conspiracy against GM... That is always an assumption that is made by people against me here (Not literally against me, just with differing opinions) What I believe is that the media has developed a certain attitude about GM and Detroit over the years. It's called a schema (A mental shortcut that associates one GROUP of people or in this case auto companies with a certain action. a.k.a. making crappy cars) Schemas are often faulty and associated with prejudice or discrimination but are based on past experiences or knowledge. Therefore, because Detroit put out trash for so many years, that is what the media (and the consumer) has, in a way, come to expect from them. So, as a result, whether conscious or subconcious a faulty bias or discrimination exists simply because GM and Detroit in general ARE producing excellent cars now, yet not getting a fair shake because this schema does not allow these people to evaluate the cars honestly on their merits. They automatically assume that Detroit cars are BAD and perpetuate that through print and communication. This is happening en mass simply because GM and Ford made bad cars for SO many years and convinced SO many people that this faulty schema is indeed correct. The reason I am so avid about pointing it out is because it is a great injustice and it is destroying 2 of our biggest and proudest companies. Ground that once lost, will never be gained again. If it were justified, then fine, but the new GM and Ford vehicles do not deserve this bias/prejudice and automatic write off. See, I'm not crazy (Well, maybe a little--but we call that 'different') :)

And that statement confirms the very bias that everyone criticizes me for pointing out. Toyota is golden, GM is dead. End of story (literally in the media) Is that a rally for GM or a hint at the analyst and media induced bankruptcy that I've been predicting for 2 years? Or a media induced sales increase for Toyota?

:rotflmao: IMO, this sums up america in general, not IN. Somehow that's what I gathered. And given the apparent import is better, smarter and superior attitude in america (Even supported by studies in the media, our old friends) it's just reinforced. In my opinion, being 'trendy' and a follower is far less enlightened as opposed to measuring things on merit and making a decision. For example; why buy a Ferrari that costs more just because that's in style when a Z06 costs less and has better merit? Of course, then personal bias comes into play somewhat and that probably skews the whole thing. And therein lies the catch.... And yes, I do subscribe to the Conflict Perspective of Social Psychology. Uneven distribution of 'could haves' creates what kind of person or achievements that become you. I agree and sadly I can even see this in myself sometimes... It's not because people are inconsiderate, it's just what we've been taught. We are conditioned to believe that college is the only means to success from day one. At my high school, if you didn't go to college then you were a NOBODY and it was all some huge race in which the more behind you fell the bigger loser you became (Just like in typical american culture) It took me a while to realize that success is characterized by much more than money and a piece of paper that basically says you're a 'part of the club' and that different people have different definitions of success and happiness.

Axis seems to be just like anything else GM.... A giant charity case. Just like with pension and the rest of the marketing efforts, GM gives a large sum of money and gets nothing in return. Not so sure I would agree with that... Enlightened? Hmmm.....

Bravo! Agreed.... If anything DFP is anti-GM and anti-Ford. It's funny how everyone here whines about our pointing out of the bias involving imports. But the first time a GM vehicle gets an award, everyone pops up and accuses the writer of bias. NO surprise there.. IT's a successful, attractive domestic that appeals to the youth. CR will do all it can to de-rail the car. Yeah right... (GM won't even advertise this) LMAO.

Good read and excellent points!

WOW! What a revelation.... Sorry GM, but if you're just now finding this out then something is bad wrong. This is why EFFECTIVE marketing and PROMOTION of improvements is so sorely needed. People have developed the outdated schema that Detroit still produces trash and good product alone is not going to fix that. (As is obvious by perception STILL lagging reality despite on par quality scores) Because, like everything else "GM"; nobody KNEW about it... I sure as hell didn't and I'm a GM enthusiast site moderator AND in that age range. So typical GM :rolleyes: