FUTURE_OF_GM

The Isle of Palms is nice (SC) but it takes a fair amount of money. And Charleston SC is beautiful, if you like history then this is the place to go. The party atmosphere is there but not nearly as bad as Myrtle (which has become party central) I would also recommend New Bern NC. It has a lot of history too (I'm a history buff) but I haven't been there in probably 10 or 11 years. From what I've heard though, it's done nothing but gotten better. Another neat place is the outer banks (Nags Head, Bodie Island, Ocracoke, etc.) I went in the winter though (January) It was a nice place to go for relaxation but the lack of 'life' or 'nightlife' depressed me. In the winter, even the Hardee's closes down and the Wal-Mart runs on limited hours. Then again, it's been almost as long since I've been there.

Hence my saying: stupid americans... LOL. They don't even know where the damn car companies are based anymore... Of course, not surprising since many people in this country don't even have a clue about geography OR american history anymore either.

LMMFAO!!!!!!! :rotflmao: MANY people take CR as gospel... In fact, my Psychology professor from last semester (A Dr. and an admitted Toyota humper) repeatedly endorsed CR and Asian cars. Then I asked him one day (In front of the class, after one of his CR boastings) Doesn't the book say in this chapter that we should NEVER take testimonials as a reliable source of data. He said "yes" and I said "Isn't Consumer Reports a narrowly focused testimonial based magazine?" After a bit of shock, he said "Yes, but, it's a lot more than just a few testimonies." Which 1) is just a means of justification or rationalization and 2) In actuality, CR surveys are a vast MINORITY of new cars sold in america. He was a good sport though... I aced the class and to boot, I did a major assignment on why the image of the Prius and Toyota are for the gullible only.

LOL...talk about cooking the numbers! And the PROPAGANDA continues... Maybe he can convince some of those last, loyal "Rednecks" that buying "4-N" is okay. It really pisses me off that everyone gets so bent out of shape about stereotyping, unless it's something like this... The dumb ass should be shot for implying that all NASCAR fans are like this... I USED to be a HUGE NASCAR fan and my family has been in the sport for years, yet, I'm not a redneck... It's stupid.... No stereotyping... UNLESS it's about, whites, rednecks, christians or 'dumb ass people who still buy domestic and believe that GM and Ford actually help the economy and think that America's economy actually still matters above globalism.' I say GOD BLESS THEM! Had it not been for FIERCLY loyal people like these (Who are a dieing breed) The media would've killed Detroit long ago. This kind of "INFORMING THE CONSUMER" will continue until NO ONE CARES THAT GM and FORD are american and contribute VASTLY more to our economy. Good 'ole america.... We're everybody's b8tch.... "The companies can be OWNED by anyone... That doesn't matter. As long as Billy-Bob has a minimum wage job." Showing 2 things... New NASCAR fans are younger and hypocrits... Oh, and that NASCAR does NOTHING to promote buying domestic. Ummm.... Your economy.... BTW, how about a little bit of that CANDID honestly about the domestics being on par IN the GENERAL MEDIA a little more often??!?!?!?!? The PR machine will spin that $h! to where it came straight out of Japan... And as soon as Toyota dominates (As they will--afterall, they are the second coming) The media will b*tchslap Detroit around a little more with the "Coming to your own turf and being better than you--as usual" Yep.... Nothing more new age american than bowing down to, working for and obeying another country at the expense of selling out our own... Now that's innovation.... THAT's Moving Forward

The Solstice coupe looks great!!! That thing, on the other hand, looks like Baghdad.

LOL... Motivating Washington to get off it's ass and "tackle issues" facing our country and economy is about as likely and ludicris as motivating a Hummer H1 to go 90 MPH... It just ain't gonna happen.com, UNLESS a LONG downhill slide is involved.... In which case both could never be saved or controlled without huge damage. Washington=worthless. The american people are increasingly understanding that. Money and "buddies" talk. Washington will not promote DOMESTIC business because it's to busy with it's hands down every other country's pants pleasing them at our expense... Seriously, if we were to screw with Japan (Who owns us anyway, and is viewed as superior to our society by most americans anyway) the kickback would be killer... We'd have every country in the world jumping on board the "We're jealous and we hate america bus." Much like what happened with Europe when we tried to keep them and China from destroying our steel industry; we got boycotted. It's all about the market.... it's all about the all mighty global economy... If we as americans are screwed then so be it! But by-god, we'll be proud to say that we "let the market function" You mean the very same administration that publicly took a dump on GM's very costly, very promising and very proud fuel cell program and hydrogen economy? Yep... retrain them for a $h!ty service job... America: servicing the world.... A shadow of it's former INNOVATIVE, MANUFACTURING power... But, what the hell... I'm sure we can all survive on the WAL-MART salary of $6.50 an hour... Right??? Rack up those votes Mr. President..... Put on that "Politician face" That's what you "leaders" are good for anyway these days... LOL..... You mean much like the obligation the GOVERNMENT has to assist domestic industry?!?!?!? BWAAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!! :rotflmao: Leave it to W. to end on a joke!!!!!!!

I agree.... Even with Oldsmobile, GM didn't have too many brands. The only problem is that GM does not successfully utilize all of their brands. They have THE POTENTIAL to be the most focused automaker ever. They could cater to ALL types of consumers through there various ESTABLISHED and WELL RECOGNIZED channels/divisions If GM were to really FOCUS it's divisions and make them consumer friendly (i.e. better as in more specific value) they'd be unstoppable. Phasing out Oldsmobile was an expensive disaster and has done NOTHING to help GM. If they make the same mistake twice then they (GM) don't deserve to survive. So much potential.... If only GM would utilize it.

Once again.. NAILED IT! It's all about first impressions. And that's something the media has gotten good at now that GM and Ford cars are up to par... They turn the consumer off of the car EMOTIONALLY because they know a logical case can't be made against it. And thus, we see the OPINIONATED pieces coming out of the woodwork about "The state of GM" or Dan Neil's pieces (Which are all 'whyyou shouldn't buy GM' opinion and rhetoric-not facts) or pieces like this... FACTS do not matter anymore, it's all about OPINION... But the problem is; most consumer take this OPINION as FACT (And the journalists know this) Therefore... until the 'journalists' lose the bias (Which will be never or not in our life times) Detroit is toast. And THAT is why I'm so enthralled with kicking dirt on the collective media. But how many people are going to do that? Even better: How many people who 'expect crap from GM'--most of the population, are going to do that? Certainly not enough to sustain a volume division/product. (Goodbye Pontiac) At least C&D tried.. And 3 words "word of mouth" advertising. Enthusiasts sell cars.

But that is the problem... As of now ANYTHING with a "T" on it will sell, ugly, boring, inferior or not.. The current Toyota's prove that. And the public has supposedly been waking up to this detroit renaissance for 10-15 years. notgonnahappen.com

Because americans are a bunch of 'japan humpers' who will do anything the japanese say, even to the detrement of our own... They already own us and they didn't even have to try... land of the free, home of the brave... yeah right. That's because NOTHING washington does is logical.... It's all motivated by self gratification, money and personal agendas. Now c'mon Ricky!!!!! You know all those "new domestics" are indeed AMERICAN companies/cars that employ MANY americans and have a HUGE impact on our economy..... Especially now that the fall of GM and Ford has been achieved and "That's where the future of OUR automotive industry is" is being hyped... Remember, the imports are the SAVIOUR that we should be thankful for and loyal to. C'mon Ricky... Don't inform the consumer of the TRUTH! That might cuse them to actually make UNBIASED, INTELLIGENT purchasing decisions... And that's BAD for the all mighty global economy.... a.k.a. GOODBYE AMERICA!!! Have fun rotting! LOL......... Nah, Rick... It's Free trade, Remember? The global economy... Remember? FAIR FOR EVERYONE... Remember? Oh yeah, I forgot... Fair for everyone BUT us, as usual.. And THAT'S why GM needs to make HUGE investments in China and dominate the market!

Maybe a Sigma or Zeta (Whatever it's being called now) Opel? Much like the Insignia

That's a very vague and general statement... The same could be made for COUNTLESS vehicles, especially asian models. As long as there is competition, there will be 'like' entries. I think the Lucerne is quite nice... Sure, overall I think Detroit has a ways to go (As always-- I mean, that's our 'conditioned' pop culture opinion) But I think we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. That is, of course, unless the media keeps pop culture opinion the same (Which they probably will. The imports are just better "because" or "because they say they're better" It's always something... Next it'll be: because domestics don't offer digital dashes. We all know it's not an innovation until it's debuted by the asians.

Nice, but of course still didn't declare the Solstice as the clear winner (Which it was and is IMO)

LMMFAO!!! (I'll take the bait---never turn down a good fight) That's right... Because they (and certain people in certain influential places) are KILLING GM and Ford. THEY have a death wish for OUR companies. An eye for an eye. Reality is that they use (and have been using for years) shady and unfair business practices to ELIMINATE or flagship industries. LOL....Ok.... THanks for the psychological analysis... I'll sleep better tonight Why not just name names? What is wrong with america is this stagnated, apathetic attitude of "what happens, happens--It is god's will and a capitalist system" It's a global economy, and if that means destroying our nation and way of life just because GM (Or insert domestic industry here) can't compete because they're too busy fulfilling their obligations, then so be it---I'm happy 'servicing' other nations" THAT is what's wrong with america.... The fact that it has NO pride, NO common sense, NO intelligence and NO ass to back what made this country great up. LOL... Okay, my opinion on a Toyota is apparently cause for extreme islamic terrorism... Yep. Personally, I don't think much of america OR the rest of the world. I am loyal to no one. AND THE PERSONAL AGENDA COMES OUT. *** See, therein lies your problem. You just admitted an unrelated bias and personal opinion, therefore calling the whole of your argument into question.*** The difference with me is that I admit that my rantings are personal opinion and should be taken as nothing more.

That's debatable.... Since females make the MAJORITY of major purchase decisions in this country, why shouldn't the 900's look a little softer??? The Ram is aggressive; hasn't dethroned GM or Ford.... The Tundra is aggressive; struggling to make sales for the year. And a lot of people don't like the scowling current Silverado. But, I too would rather it be more aggressive than not. Now come on... You know that OBJECTIVITY only applies to domestics... The new Tundra will receive the same free ride Toyota always gets.

[dramatic mode] BINGO!!! It doesn't make a damn difference whether or not the Tundra is actually better than the Silverado or F-150... The writing is on the wall.. The fall of Detroit has been set up for years now (and has been escalated by the media an d the street in the past few years for good reason) The Tundra will debut to an ADORING media, (Just like the Ridgeline and Titan did---They'll twist the articles full of so much import humping that it'll make you physically sick---after all, all those pent up years of having to root for Detroit trucks because of a lack of a better alternative---yuck) whilst the 900s will "almost be there" or "will they be enough to top the new Toyota" or etc. etc... And there you have it, Toyota will rock 'the street' GM and Ford will be "paranoia mania-ed" into wall street cardiac arrest and the consumer will *GLADLY* and obliviously buy those "American made" (YOU know it'll be pointed out MORE thn enough times to transform the loyalists into believers--that is the goal) Toyota's to "benefit job growth" and GM and Ford will be left to rot in our memories. BUT, not before they're criticized and ridiculed out of existence. The truck looks bad.... Like a micro Japanese offering that has a HUGE Toyota grille grafted on, but I'm sure it'll sell HUGE! After all, it is "god's gift to the modern truck" The death of Detroit has been witnessed. [/dramatic mode]

WTF?!?!?! Slam the GMT355's right off the bat???? They've ALWAYS been praised for their off road prowess. HOW? No different than the swing of a hatch.... Either one could pose the same problem. ***Decent review*** Didn't mention the forth coming powertrain options though.

Seems that Z71's sell very well here. If GM cheaped out by just making it a lame option box, that's not cool.

Not sure exactly what he was trying to convey with that comment, but if it's what I think it is, then he is spot on. Actually, they're not that well made anymore... BTW, did anyone see the log book entry for the Tacoma PreRunner in MT this month where they excused MAJOR repairs with "Toyota's don't usually break down like this" Yep, unlike america, they don't let foreign firms come in and RUIN their industry and SWAY their buyers/media to HATE home grown products. The same reason they made the assertion that they had out sold Ford a couple years ago, then recanted. They KNEW that the 'toyota humping' media would JUMP RIGHT ON IT and cause irreperable damage to ANOTHER domestic mark by shuffling stock prices and swaying more american opinions. Toyota is a master at PR, media and sales/sales number MANIPULATION. Now what in the wide, wide world of sports is going on here?!?!?!?!? Someone finally gets the clue that Wall Street is a business just like anything else and not the magical prediction fairy that everyone thinks? AND someone finally grasps the concept that, like the media, all they're trying to do is screw over GM? Wow, it's what I've said all along... A dead GM= a happy Wall Street and a happier media. The Street has ALWAYS been jea;ous of the success of GMAC because instead of praising GM for diversification, they criticize and make snide "bank of GM" remarks. Surprise, surprise, the american way... Sell out your neighbor for your own personal gain. But, alas the street will get it's way.... The people who hold the money, hold the power and GMAC will at least partially be sold off. READ: purposely ignored successes... GM is getting better, so now we have chosen to ignore it's successes altogether. Fence the sheep in to the negativity before they even get a chance to experience the new GM for themselves. Put up the front of "Same 'ole, same 'ole and worse" for Detroit, not the truth. Too bad this never comes up in the 'incentive bribe bit' Meh, even if the media does give it credit, the sales are due to "massive incentives" or "fleets" SPIN, of course... ***So, amid all of the "disasterpieces" we're seeing gains by pretty much ALL of the new Chevrolet launches.... The Aveo, Cobalt and Malibu and the Equinox and Colorado... Of course, I'm sure the story will focus on "incentive bribe" or "fleet" as stated above or "price per unit" Anything to make Toyota and Honda look good. Eventhough, like other key GM volume launches, the 'journalists' tried to kill it out of the gate. "Why buy a car that stands for the Oprah crowd"/"Why didn't GM pay the taxes--It's not enough that they donated multiple 20,000+ cars"/etc...etc...etc... all the way to Dan Neil and his 'article' in which he pretty much admits his anal retentive view of life and his hatred for GM... I dunno, maybe a Pontiac Catalina ran over his dog or something.... At least, one can only hope;) OF COURSE, after it was hailed as "More american than american cars" and this after years of the media bitching about the 'american characteristics' of those 'american cars' OH AND, this just serves to show you what HUGE image problem Toyota has and will increasingly have over the next decade... ALMOST ALL of it's products SEEM to sell to the geriatric or boomer set... But, I guess after years of taking criticism, Buick must fall by the wayside. A shocker... Given that it is an aged, outclassed product that was never really that revolutionary in the first place.... Then again, this and the AGED Camry sales gain serve to show what that SPECTACULAR, american media driven, image can do for you. Wow, the 4Runner was down.... I would've thought the opposite. Same with the Tacoma, it seems to have never caught on well. Yet, the Tundra is as common as roadkill out here (A very anti-domestic area) That'll change, now that the media is throwing all of their weight behind them since Toyota is well positioned. (Hence the heaping praise over the lackluster new Civic and null and void Ridgeline) These brands will be the next to surpass Detroit... Once the japanese 2 are 'positioned' well. ***So, Mitsubishi, MB and VW are all down in sales and the Korean fire has been put on hold but "It's (only) the big 3 that Toyota and Honda are chomping at" Somehow I find that hard to believe.... the majority, MAYBE, but all... Nah...

Yep, I can mirror that exactly! I screwed around and tanked my GPA as well. It's a LONG, hard fight back up the ladder. Don't make the same mistake!

I have obtained a 2 year degree in arts. I'm currently double majoring in Psychology and Business.

Pretty much all of our cars get pampered. Each is washed once a week or at the very most, once every 2 weeks, REGARDLESS of weather. Each is waxed about once every 2 months, and it's a 3 stage wax (cleaner/polish/wax) not just a cleaner-wax. I have a special polish for the stainless and a special polish for machined bits. plastic trim is always treated aand detailed with something silicone based. etc, etc, I could go on and on.... Oil is changed roughly every 3,000 miles upon which all fluids are checked. Other fluids are changed according to maintenance schedules. The Camaros are kept inside at all times when not being driven or shown and when driven ARE NOT HOT RODDED. I have too much money invested in them to destroy them. Now, that said, they are 'athletically' ran every once in a while The Focus racks up a lot of miles but most are highway miles from home to UNCC and back. I never hot rod this car either unless I'm feeling 1) aggressive 2) angry (This'll always do it) or 3) need to merge quickly or keep up. The Silverado, of course, gets a little more wear and tear since it is of course, a truck and is used for truck things and by multiple drivers. But it is never blatantly hot rodded either. The F-150 is purely my dad's work truck and is on it's own maintenance schedule. Out of sight, out of mind. The Toyota, while continueing to build LOTS of miles and probably in the worst shape of any of our cars (our beater) it still isn't ran hard and gets the universal good treatment of all our cars. Eventhough it is driven by multiple drivers.

Oldsmobile aside (I'm still pissed about that one) I think GM should keep and expand Saab... It still has potential but the problem is; GM has. like Saturn or even Buick in recent years never been serious about giving it decent product. What GM needs to do is get a comprehensive plan for Saab and Saturn and work hard at cracking the Euro mindset. Both have big growth potential IMO, but Saab will have to either SLOWLY turn or wait it's turn until the core divisions are fixed. And that's exactly what it's doing, just like Hummer. It's getting the scraps and band aids while Saturn, Chevrolet and Pontiac/Buick are fully funded. Remember volume=money and neither Saab nor Hummer=volume

I never meant to insult you... Merely use your post as an example. That sort of 'expected' thinking and comment is what I was getting at. And; I haven't said a word about the press in this thread, nor did I dispute anything you said.

And that's one of the ways it'll be covered up... "Cultural differences"