FUTURE_OF_GM

I *still* don't think Cadillac is that bad off as the very word itself has ALWAYS been connotated with quality. But, I agree they do need MORE and I think GM will deliver. It's not a premature victory... Cadillac HAS been revived, the battle has been won. The question is; how will the WAR turn out.

What a surprise!!! Another GM "partnership" in which GM gets screwed and their competitor hits paydirt. I'm sure Toyota received something. Funny how NO company in the world wants to actually work with GM, not even the suppliers. But they're first in line to take advantage of GM and the GM execs seem to like to whore the company's resources out anyway, so whatever. I bet the 'partnership' was struck solely for this reason: Oh yeah; and the REST of that sentence reads "WHEN TOYOTA FINISHES DESTROYING THE AMERICAN AUTO INDUSTRY AND ILLUSTRATES THE STUPIDITY OF AMERICANS AS THEY FLOCK TO 'FALL IN LINE' AND DITCH YET ANOTHER INDUSTRY AND YET ANOTHER SYMBOL OF AMERICANA." There will be NO backlash... I don't understand why Toyota is worried. The politicians do a whole lot of NOTHING regarding american business and the media is ensuring, through Toyota praise/new domestic articles that the consumer does EXACTLY what they're told; which is to NOT buy or care for domestics. COULD?!?!? LOL... Try WILL!! FUTURE_OF_GM, an opinionist with Cheersandgears.com in america had this response to that comment: "F*ck that... This is war!" A.K.A. Don't cut off Toyota from theiving GM technology or having inside sources in the company. Seriously; if it isn't producing results then what exactly is the point of the partnership and WHY is this guy so adament about it continuing? Yeah right.... The only thing the Prius does for Toyota is give the media something to latch on to so that they can create FALSE (Read: not based on fact) goodwill while belittling Detroit YET AGAIN. But NOT directly because of sales. Not to worry!!!! Thsi is america for god's sake!!! We sell our PORTS to our enemies for crying out loud. (Literally--check the news today) You got money? Then we're happy to oblidge, in any way you'd like REGARDLESS of how bad off it leaves us. HEY, look at that!!! GM's past (1992) even gets thrown in their faces in BUSINESS articles now. Oh, and last time I checked, GM is still FAR from immediate bankruptcy. Those profits look impressive when the currency is manipulated in their favor, doesn't it? Which has resulted in ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for GM.... Except a car identical to Toyota that doesn't SELL as well, isn't REVIEWED as well and is RANKED worse.

This is a sad scenario.... I don't think it's a good thing that the performance division will not have a performance flagship and I'm sure the media will point that out as much as possible. Hopefully the replacement will FLOOR us though and hopefully GM can keep the performance momentum going with other performance vehicles like the GP GXP, a G6 GXP and the Solstice GXP. oh, and maybe a tubo-ed G5 or something.

Thanks for the compliment NOS 68: I don't know if I'll have a chance to get pix of the Focus wrecked or not. I'm back at school now and hopefully, by the time I get home, my body man will have worked his magic. Since it's going to need new bumpers (front and rear) and one new side skirt I'm thinking about just ponying up the extra cash to put the SVT treatment on it. It won't run like an SVT though (yet ) Oh, and NOS, I agree the Nissan isn't a bad car at all, just not my cup o' tea.

That GREAT global economy for you... I'll graduate in 2 years with 2 degrees..... Can't WAIT to live in poverty with all the other educated masses.

Very sad... I can remember wanting to be an F-14 pilot when I was a kid. In fact, I was a huge plane buff before I discovered cars. The F-14 was always my perennial favorite because of Top Gun. Oh, and BTW, SHARP Cobalt z28luvr01.

Oh, and here is a link to the pictures that Camino is talking about. They are at the end of the album; past my Camaro's, the new Camaro concept and what the Focus USED to look like. http://uncc.facebook.com/album.php?aid=201...5ee&id=36614241

Yes I do :rotflmao: Maybe I can install a GPS unit and post a link on the website...LOL. Oh yeah, I'm thankful for that... I know... Unfortunately, not a week after I signed the release for the last accident I was back in therapy. Luckily I have good health insurance. Oh, and the injuries aren't severe--just more nagging than anything, so that's a good thing. LOL.. Maybe. My first two accidents were in a Chevrolet and a Toyota respectively though.

Well, you guessed it... Almost a year to the day that I bought my Focus ZX3 after totalling my Focus LX in that nasty 18 wheeler wreck, I have now destroyed the ZX3. The FOG's record: 4 accidents in the past 6 years involving 4 different cars. NONE of them my fault. I guess I have an imaginary target painted on my car or something. Hell, come to think of it, I've always dreamed of being in a demolition derby and I gues, in a way my dream has come true...LOL So, here's the story. I'm home for the weekend from school becaue I alternate weekends between here and there. The last 3 times I've been home have not been pleasant, the first being my going away party where two of my good friends got in a fight in my girlfriends/neighbors house. The second being a scenario where my best friend (READ: this guy might as well be my brother, he is family) tried to OD on xanex (sp) and alcohol, and I had to call the medics. The third being when a friend of ours (Mine and Cavigirl--my girlfriend) got held down and kicked in the face and I had to drive her around all night filing charges and to the emergency room, then had to drive back here; 2 hours away. (Our friends really aren't that violent or volatile--it's just been a bad year so far--SURPRISE, SURPRISE) So anyway, this weekend I'm pulling in to our local Ingle's grocery store (Like a Lowe's food or Food Lion) and it has the "blocks within the parking lot" streets with it's own stop signs and all. I see this guy in a Tracker coming up to the stop sign perpendicular to me (I didn't have a stop sign) Didn't think much of it, until I realized that he wasn't stopping. I then gunned the throttle to try and keep him from T-boning me but I wasn't fast enough. He caught me in the right rear quarter and spun me around 180 degrees into oncoming traffic. I remained calm (Hell, after all, this isn't the first wreck I've lived through and it's a peach compared to the last 2) and got out of the car. I immediately noticed my back and neck tensing up. (He had obviously aggravated the injuries from last years wreck that I'm still in and out of P/T for) The Focus, which as far as I could tell wasn't totalled. The guy who hit me (said his foot slipped off the brake and onto the throttle) turned out to be someone I had known for years. In fact, he was a groomsman along with me in one of my good friends weddings. He is a super nice guy and I'm glad we're both okay. The car had roughly $3500 in damage according to my body shop; that includes the mechanical pieces and a wheel and tire. Then to top it all off the car sustained another $500 in damage when the tow truck guy ripped the front bumper off loading it onto the rollback. So, needless to say, I'm pretty upset right now. Not angry as much as just stressed because I don't understand why this has happened to me...AGAIN!!! I'm a VERY cautious driver who takes IMMACULATE care of his vehicles even while driving. I'm much more responsible and generally AWARE than any of my friends. To add insult to injury (Deja vue for those of you familiar with the Camry rental last year ehh?--exact same words in fact ) I got an Altima as my rental... Not a bad car... Not nearly as TERRIBLE as the Camry. The engine sounds rough but the power is excellent, the brakes are also excellent. But the interior sucks (and yes, it is a NEW Altima) the panels don't fit right on the steering wheel, it's generally boring and unsubstantial and EVERY aspect of the thing rattles with bass. It couldn't hold up to neither my Ill Nino CD nor my Johnny Cash CD (rattles like a snake on the baseline in "Cry, cry, cry") and that's just a few of the complaints. The transmission seems awkward but the car rides VERY well and it sure as HELL doesn't handle curves like I'm used to. Of course, that's in comparison to my ZX3 which rides kinda rough but drives like a DREAM. It's an okay car for an appliance and if it were a GM I'm sure they'd be reaping it's rewards right now. It has SOME style, just enough to make it 'handsome' but not beautiful or all that impressive IMO. It's just a good middle of the road car, much better than the Camry, IMO. Anyway.... I go home for Spring Break in 2 weeks (I'll be home for 12 days) can't WAIT to see what happens then! (LOL)

This is VERY significant... These are the people who CONTROL. They CONTROL public opinion through the media, teaching and image. And they CONTROL assets of businesses, groups and themselves. This, to me, is a HUGE reason why Toyota is successful and 'better' than GM. Possibly why P.A.G. isn't doing as well as hoped? Once again... See my above comment. And this will only get worse as the percentage of our population getting degrees is exploding. These people have FAR more influence on each other and others than most know IMO... It also emphasizes the "undereducated domestic driver" stereotype. WOW!! I am VERY surprised.... It does seem like, in my age group that GM DOES have a pretty good reputation. The problem is that they just don't make either 1) affordable vehicles or 2) affordable vehicles that are APPEALING. Honda also has a cult following and Toyota seems to be the DEFAULT choice for people who ARE NOT car people. And you can thank the anti-Detroit media... WAIT< before you say "Get over it FOG" Think about this: Where is Chrysler?!?!?! NOT THERE, so it CERTAINLY isn't a "Big 3" general image problem. Chrysler has been 'excused' by the media now because of their outsourced ownership. The bankruptcy stories CERTAINLY are not helping this either. Younger, wealthier... You're looking at the future my friends... 4 years of FIRE SALE ADVERTISING every 4 months can get you this. READ: Toyota's target set. Exactly---thank you media! Now that the product is good, the media has turned to EDITORIALS on the business side to slam GM. Of course, it ould help if GM had made the CORRECT business moves in the first place. Or, what happens when you get everyone in the media chnting the same thing... ***I think this is a very cool study with some very OBVIOUS results and very POSITIVE results for GM and Ford.

It was probably swept under the rug with all the other negative import news... This is just more PERSUADING and BEGGING.. lol That's a VERY good point. One that I'm assuming SOME of us know more about than others.

This shows how POWERFUL the media jumping behind the Civic and Ridgeline has been. And reinforces the fact that the media is nothing more than goodwill advertising. LMFAO..... I guess if I had read a little further, I wouldn't have had to type that last blip.... But, you get the point. Toyota's future has been sealed as number 1, so now it's time to jump behind Honda and go for number 2. Hell, after fainting last january, the media has HINTED and PERSUADED at consumers SO HARD this year in favor of the Ridgeline that a sales increase is TO BE EXPECTED. People are PROBABLY gettiung SICK of hearing the slurping and begging. LOL. Too bad the media didn't get behind UGLY, useless trucks from GM like this. Then maybe the Aztek would've been TOTY and set new sales paces. Good news. What in the world is that sound?!?! Oh wait, it's air streaming out of the Nissan revitalization. (Well, at least until the media turns to them and elevates them to number 3) SWEET! [smart assed remark] Must be fleet sales [/smart assed remark] But, I'm sure after the CR story gets widely known, the momentum will reverse itself. Not for long, trust me. Start frying the crow fellows... For all those analysts. That's simple... Because GM was the only PROACTIVE force in the rebate race... They largely DICTATED the market in that everyone else assigned incentives to be REACTIVE to GM's deals. Therefore, less GM incentives=less "the other guys" incentives. Say what you will, but Chrysler is HOT!

Nothing lost... Nothing gained. :twocents: (Okay, I was being at LEAST 50% sarcastic with that one)

Well, here we go... GM has a successful sales month with an ultra successful pricing strategy and the ANTI-GM media starts shooting articles at the "problem" They'll kill this plan just like they do everything else in hopes that GM will fail. WOW!! Just WOW!!! Imagine that.... GM trying to charge a premium for it's LUXURY cars, and recently re-designed vehicles at that! Nice way to target the DTS success and 'nip it' WOW!!! Another NO brainer.... More focused pricing for more focused divisions... I guess GM should just badge engineer everything and make it all the same prices so that the consumer can cross shop it's divisions... OH WAIT, the media doesn't like that EITHER. Oh, and this is a nice way to contradict GM's promotion of simple, non-confusing pricing. CR is spreading the myth of confusion. I guess GM took a page from the Toyota book of manipulating the mix...It is after all a DIFFERENT PRICING STRATEGY. To not anticipate DIFFERENT PRICES is a little out of touch with reality in my opinion (Oh wait, it's Consumer Reports, NEVERMIND) A.K.A. Live in the past and pray for incentives by NOT making your purchase decisions immediately, therefore forcing GM to offer them. And there comes that typicl Detroit pessimism again... "They can't possibly keep momentum, they're domestic after all. Oh GOD... Here we go.... Now it's going to be "GM is bribing people to buy it's cars through OVER ADVERTISING!" So, basically they've been successful?!??!?!! No credit... No surprise. ***I'd like to see a Toyota break down on prices... Or a break down of equipment verses prices. OH WAIT! It's CR and it's Toyota... We all know that Toyota is the righteous and angelic.*** As I said, this is just BAD PR for the sake of BAD PR to throw water on the fire (Not that 6% is much of a fire, but take no chances)... Something CR is really good at doing. It's not just C.R. it's the media in general and their attitude toward domestics... Detroit CANNOT win either way, the deck is stacked and this is a PERFECT example... "Don't buy GM!!! The rebates hurt resale too much!!!" then when the rebates end: "Don't buy GM, you're not getting THAT good of a deal!!" All that's left now is an increasingly rapid slide towards bankruptcy. That's the plan

RE: Cadillac being an "old man's car" This shows 2 things 1) Cadillac still has a ways to go. 2) This guy OBVIOUSLY isn't that well informed about cars (Like 75% of the population) So, GM needs to get the word out better. Cadillac will ALWAYS be an old persons car to some people, simply because it isn't chasing 20 year olds. RE: VW and reliable cars (Turbo200's post) I thought VW and reliability was an oxymoron. RE: The 300. I think the 300 will age very well and it has done an EXCELLENT job for Chrysler.

L.O.L. @ regfootball Beautiful!!! No one cares about sob stories like this... If they did then they would've stopped being anti-GM/anti-america years ago... I couldn't care less about the boomers or any other 'americans' You reap what you sow and unfortunately it's MY generation that is getting screwed because of these selfish, self-righteous screw ups.

NICE!!!

I wouldn't mind seeing a Wrangler competitor as long as it stays true to the Hummer image of off raod prowess, dynamite looks and luxury-ish interiors. A.K.A. No Hummer Compass competitor

GOSPEL.

I disagree and agree..... I agree because I too think Cadillac *ALWAYS* had a pretty good image in the mind of most consumers. But I disagree that successful product cannot turn around an image... Just look at Nissan... better yet, a more comparable example would be Chrysler and the 300. Until it and the Crossfire came along, Chrysler was NOT desired and commonly had the '1970's Detroit" stigma.

See... THIS is the very ESSENCE of General Motors and WHY their divisions have SUCH potential if used right... GM doesn't HAVE to worry about broadening 3 divisions of vehicles to appeal to an ever widening, ever diversifying marketplace... GM CAN focus Buick AWAY from your tastes because they HAVE another division that WILL appeal to your tastes.... If GM could spread it's divisions out to where they covered the ENTIRE market with SPECIFIC, focused, quality offerings, then their 8 divisions would turn from a liability into an asset over night IMO. ***Not picking on you at all CaddyXLR-V I just think you hit on an excellent point*** I agree about the perception part....

I disagree 100% The Lucerne DEFINATELY competes head on with the Avalon set... Toyota has as much of an 'aging buyer' problem as any of GM's divisions. And the new Buick product, while not necessarily class leading in every aspect is, at the very least, competitive and appealing. I agree 100% here though.. For what it's worth, look at what the Rendezvous did for Buick despite it's deficiencies... Lowered the average buyers age and opened the division up to new people. ANY brand can be saved... The question being; can GM keep a good enough FOCUS to save them. I agree 100%!!! Saturn has the same advantage that Mercury has in that it's DEVOID of an image. It's easier to start from zero than a negative number. ***I think there are 2 fundamental flaws with this argument...*** 1) Saturn is not and will never be Chevrolet... They'll never sell the numbers that Chevy sales and they won't compete much with the Chevrolet line up, ESPECIALLY if Chevy pioneers the new RWD platform. 2) I think the GM dealer body is in SAD shape... The company is on the ropes right now and all the dealers can do is act 1980's bureaucratic and bitch about the decisions that the COMPANY makes... GM needs to teach these people that they don't RUN the company and that they need to support the new vision. Either that, or they can all NOT be selling GM cars in a few years.

All good news!!! With the addition of the G5 (Cobalt as it may be) and lower end G6, combined with the small sales bump from Torrent; Pontiac should be able to sustain itself. Below $15,000... Wow. 20,000 Solsti sounds nice too.... I think the B/P/GMC channel does need another entry level car besides the Vibe. Lacrosse Super should help Buick that much more!

This is ridiculous.... GM needs SATURN AND CHEVROLET Case in point: THIS is what we need with EVERY division, but Saturn is the easiest candidate to elicit this. At face value, that statement is great. But taken in context it represents bias.... Saturn has NEVER made money because it has been STARVED. If GM stays in the same mindset that is displayed in that comment, then it'll be a continuous rapid decline for their business... The BUSINESS model is not working well enough to just stay narrow minded and 'trim the fat' The business MUST be re-invented. WOW.. Someone's uninformed... ***GM must build and differentiate ALL of it's divisions. Chevrolet, SATURN and Cadillac especially... Saturn has HUGE potential and should not be hindered anymore than any other GM division. That's a loaded comment.... It's all about perception.

I'd like to see a Gran national trim emerge, especially on Lucerne. Or, better yet, VELITE!