FUTURE_OF_GM

LOL @ 68 VERY NICE Northstar... I'm jealous! You can tell that we're a bunch of car guys because we've already planned the first mods for you... LOL.

VERY impressive!!!

On the contrary, I think BOTH of these were good marketing campaigns. So why can't we do that now?!?!?! Just give Pontiac the money to FIX the G6 and differentiate the G5... It's a start. Sometimes Delorenzo is CLUELESS, and that includes now.... There is NO Firebird. Solstice is WELL on it's way to re-invigorating Pontiac as an image division (If GM can just follow through) and well on it's way to cementing a future for itself. G6 HAS reached enough volume (even before the introduction of the convertible or the GXP version) to sustain Pontiac and the G5 will only ADD needed volume... Does Pontiac deserve more?!?!? HELL YEAH THEY DO!!!! But I *doubt* very seriously that they're in as bad of shape as he makes it out to sound. I agree 100% times 3!!! The market is BEGGING for 'maverick' offerings and Pontiac has an AUTOMATIC advantage in that area. (One of the MANY unrealized advantages that GM's various divisions has) GM will be put out of it's misery anyway if the media and the street have their way (And I'm sure they will---since no one will control them and EVERYONE believes them) I think they should be broken into 4 different factions and run like micro car companies. Chevrolet/Buick (The everymans car/The basic luxury car BOTH volume divisions) Cadillac/Pontiac (The "HOT" cars of GM as in the super focused performance and luxury cars--LOWER volume, more exclusitivity) Saturn/Saab (The european arm that provides (overwhelms with) the alpha traits of what american car buyers want now---ALL european, except for the quality) Hummer/GMC (Strictly trucks, this way both would have a defined direction and NO overlap. GMC for volume, Hummer for luxury/exclusitivity) That way EACH of the divisions could be empowered and each 'group' could better target the competition.

8-10K less?!?!?! What tha F***?!?!?! This is just another typical Lienert review... Typically bland, typically $h!ty and typically anti-GM. P.S. Good to have you back Walt!

According to the media...EVERYTHING!!!! Overall sales are down, they're too STUPID to look past that.

The difference is that J.D. Power NEVER gets as much publicity... C.R. is biased and will continue to contribute to the inevitable decline of Detroit into ruin. No one listens to facts counter to the 'imports are better' argument because those are the rose colored glasses they've been handed for 30 years now. That can't be used to RID us of the domestic auto industry, so it's out of sight, out of mind and largely, doesn't matter.

That's what we do in america... Pass sh*t off as fact, ESPECIALLY when it deals with "the rust belt"

Anyone remember what I said about Toyota being secure and now Honda benefiting from the media blitz??? This is more proof... 5 of these 10 cars are Hondas. Oh, and... Isn't it funny that, after a year of SLOW Ridgeline sales and in light of the new 900s coming on line, the Ridgeline is getting YET another significant PR push in the form of CR slurping... I'm so sick of Ridgline praise I could puke... The media is lobbying SO heavily for this ugly piece of $h! that's it's pitifully obvious. Oh, and this just goes to show that CR, the union founded by the man who was the first to form anti-domestic bias (For no reason other than self gratification) Ralph Nader, isn't afraid to deliver the magic silver bullet that will finish off Detroit. A survey this morning on ABC said that 80% of buyers found this survey to be important. So, by kicking detroit in the teeth while they're in such bad shape I pretty sure that CR, a biased, private publication (Taken as gospel by the sheep) might've just got the job done for the asians. LOL... First of all, I don't see how NOT being on a list of a traditionally biased PRIVATE source of news is humiliation. Secondly, this statement SHOWS their bias perfectly. And thirdly; THAT IS THE POINT RIGHT??? To humiliate and kill the domestics??? It's a sad day when journalism this BIASED (The statement) is allowed and credited as factual unbiased press. WOW!!! What a LONG and storied history (sarcasm) Domestic ratings will CONTINUE TO GET WORSE in CR... Why??? To offset the positive PR of the FACTUAL J.D. Power reports of course. And that proves WHAT exactly?!?!?!?! Just because you're SUPPOSEDLY a good source of information doesn't mean that you're not biased. One million?!?!? That's it!!!! in a 17-18 million vehicle market... WOW!!! What a HUGE difference!!! Oh, and why isn't there any DOOM and GLOOM articles about the europeans being shut out?!?!?! Of course, the three GOLDEN COWS I call bull$h! on that one. (I'm sure they just threw Mitsu a bone to try and ease their financial problems) All the effeminate hippie brands Obviously the press release was innacurate; as Mazda IS owned by Ford and IS in the top 10. Of course, we can't tell the public that now can we??? Another domestic influenced company. BUT WAIT?!?!?!? Wasn't an Infiniti on the top ten list?!?!?!?! OH NO!!!! The new Saturns are threatening to the asian brands.... Gotta start them off on a bad footing. Kill Ford's momentum. ***GASP!!!*** VW!?!?!?! The wholly recommended VW?!?!?!? Greenie revenge I actually agree with this... DAMMIT DETROIT!!! It's F*ckin' war now!!! You need to come OUT swinging and if you go down, then at least, BY GOD you tried! The Ford Motor Company official on World News Tonight said it best, and I quote: "We have only BEGUN TO FIGHT" Interpretation number 1: The new big 2 Interpretation number 2: What's wrong guys, after years of getting BURNED by forging a reputation for Japan Inc. overall yet facts showing otherwise (EXAMPLE: Nissan and their HORRIBLE quality) you have to be more specific now?!?!?! Interpretation number 3: Apparently only Toyota and Honda sent their checks on time. Oh yeah, that's right!!!! After we allowed them to SCREW US OUT OF THAT SECTOR. (Much like were HELPING them do in automobiles) Yeah, a series of tests on what their readership wants to hear maybe... Tests that they have YET to prove are little more that SUBJECTIVE ratings. WOW, only 300,000 issues... F*ck it then, the effects of this will be minimal (Yeah right) Those are some crappy numbers though.

Well, I see the tirade of FABRICATED news is being pumped out once again by the propaganda machine. Oh yeah, and notice that we only see these articles when GM and Ford are down... LOL... These people are STILL reporting that Toyota will unseat GM?!??! Oh god... Toyota fell short! Get ready for a BLITZKREIG of anti-Detroit, Toyota slurping articles. CASE IN POINT: We've passed the point of reality folks... GM did well this month and these people are still determined to see them fail. They'll counteract the good with something bad from now on to continue kicking GM while they're down. And what is the point of this comment?!?!?! Just as an INSULT, that's the point. Hence the decreased sales dip$h!. Nice... IN RELATED NEWS: The headlines on world news tonight reported on the ***COINCIDENCE*** that Consumer Reports released their top 10 cars list today which was ALL Japanese cars. (What a surprise) I guess Toyota made a call to them after they seen that their sales were off. One lady was buying a Toyota Highlander hybrid (A typical, angry hippie type CR reader) and said that they "looked" at the Escape, but after reading CR decided that....PAUSE..... they'd just go with the Toyota. (You know, because that's what they were told to do)

Coincidence? I think not.... Remember; no domestic can conquest import sales.

EXCELLENT! Nice to see the 2 'damaged brands' in there and I wonder how much the new Impala is helping GM reduce fleet sales. So basically Saturn and GMC brought the numbers down... GMC's numbers are NO DOUBT a product of the new Yukon launching. As for Saturn, well, at least they have lots of new product coming. Interesting... The two divisions that EVERYONE wants GM to rid itself of. Once again, this is what happens when GM actually stops STARVING a 'damaged brand' of good, image changing product. Good news!!!! GM definately shouldn't have introduced those GMT900s right now (much sarcasm implied) The Torrent is doing EXACTLY what it was supposed to do... Giving Pontiac VOLUME. Seems that the Vue has ALWAYS been a hit! NICE, between Lucerne and Lacrosse Buick seems to be gaining more and more retail steam. Not sure what that means. Yep, that G6 was such a failure..LOL... I'm in a college town and I see more G6's than Cobalts... This thing has SERIOUS potential if GM would just fix the details. The Colorado needs a quick fix, much like the H3. Better motor and value pricing..... Great to hear about the Lucerne! ***On a slightly related note, a friend of mine has a VW passat (Newer one) and is finally tired of the bad quality. She said she's going to get a Pilot begrudgingly because she can't afford an Equinox... She said that's what she really wants and she could've afforded it during the employee discounts, but not now. And this girl is the type of person that it seems would NEVER consider a domestic. (I always thought the Pilot was more but whatever)

LMAO!!!! Denial.... Yep, that's it... That's why I predict in almost EVERY post that Detroit will not exist in 10-20 years. You wanna see my reality... Go look at the new Tundra thread. Oh and thanks for clearing the numbers up.

Unfortunately that history has been twisted into a pile of REGRETS for most americans instead of the amazing story it is, by those who TOLD them domestics suck.

You know... I thought more about this asshole analyst and came to this conclusion.. The ending of the article was PURPOSEFUL, to make domestic buyers think... As in; "You know; he's right" And secondly; SINCE the domestics have given the Tundra the 'opportunity' borne of poor quality...Gee, it took the press what? 2 weeks to throw this argument in our faces for no reason (No reason because domestic trucks ARE quality) Then apparently Toyota has done THE same in the coveted MID SIZE CAR SEGMENT for Detroit, since their Camry suffers so badly from sludge problems. OR they've also done THE SAME in the hot HYBRID car segment since Priuses, among other things, seem to be STALLING in freeway traffic. Oh wait.... You say NO, they haven't... OH WAIT, I FORGOT!!!! The press buries this stuff, it wont be thrown in their faces and played on like Detroits supposed short comings will be. The ducks are in line folks... I was reading the Car & Driver Truck/SUV buyers guide, where C&D did an excellent job of casting a negative shadow over EVERY domestic vehicle (Including the GMT-900s) and headlined the Tundra article with "First in quality" with quotes throughout like "The quality alone would give anyone reason to consider this truck over ANYTHING from Detroit." So folks, the stage is set.... Toyota, along with their PEERS in the media will exploit the 'quality advantage' over Detroit and you'll see the curve of domestics buyers falling faster than the fuel gauge in a Hummer H2. And that'll be folowed by a pleathora of articles about how Detroit is so useless and how MORE people would buy Tundras if capacity didn't hinder and how a lot of domestic sales are fleet sales. History repeats itself and we've seen this STORY far too many times already. Because I know... YOU KNOW and THEY know that all they have to do is mention Toyota, quality and Detroit with LACK THERE OF and the public is sold faster than the first 1000 Solstices. Hook, line and sinker. That's right... It's leading to an ever spoon-fed-ignorant public and to ALL of us driving imported cars.. Do you guys HONESTLY think that things are EVER going to change for Ford and GM???? Do you HONESTLY think that the MEDIA would let that happen??? Sure, they'll throw GM and Ford a few bones to satisfy the aging loyalists, but after that it's; hello NO DOMESTIC car industry. Well, unless you're a naive analyst or professor that thinks the imports qualify as 'new domestics' This WILL BE NO CAMRY.... Toyota is ALREADY established and the media blitz IN FAVOR of them and against all else has been building and forging itself into a god-like entity thta IS bulletproof. I give it 5 years, IF that long, before Toyota has finished GM and Ford off (And by that I mean, they'll dominate the entire market, be bigger and be considered by default BETTER by EVERYONE) They'll play on the 'domestics poor quality' myth from the 70s & 80s (You know--DESPITE the ACTUAL scores that are now available EVERYWHERE) They'll play on the 'we're an american company building american products' field and counter that with COUNTLESS examples of GM outsourcing (See Hudson here or in national press; Jamie Kittman of automobile for these) just like they've begun to do and they'll play on the consumers need to be right by implying that BETTER people buy imports, as they have BEEN doing for years. Then you'll get all of the subjective measures like 'how soft the dash is" or how shiney the frame is" or something else completely irrelevant. For example, in the C&D truck/SUV guide tonight they sighted the TUndra as Toyota's first fullsize truck and a bold move... NO mention of the $h! bag T100.... Now if that would've been GM, we'd have had 5-6 paragraphs worth of valiant attempt at an entry-level luxury cars, Allantes, Celebrities and Citations thrown in our face (To reinforce the anti-Detroit bias) It's pure garbage and it's only going to get worse. Hudson to the rescue... 8 years.... WOW! I thought those imports were very FAST in reinventing their products!!! 8, 10 years ago... It's pretty much the same. Of COURSE... And I'm sure they'll sell all they can build!!! (Given the amount of FLAME FANNING it'll have) I give it 2 comparison tests and the Tundra will be ranked first.... Think about this: the major publications said that the ONLY reason the F-150 kept it's edge over the Titan (in their eyes) was that it is available in MULTIPLE configurations... With the Tundra, that problem is solved. It'll be JUST like anything else pertaining to the imports verses the domestics: LIKE TAKING CANDY FROM A BOUND AND TIED BABY. WELL HOT DAMN!!!! All those MARKET SHARE ARTICLES CHASTISING DETROIT FOR THEIR "PITIFUL" SHARE NUMBERS could've fooled me. They'll get the YOUNG, therefore the domestics will suffer the same fate as Buick is now..

I LOVE the Sky, but it just doesn't capture the PURE, roadster SOUL like the Solstice does... It's a bit overdone to capitalize on that. As long as they are BOTH successful and aren't pitted against each other. I just hope the Sky doesn't steal the Solsti's thunder.

WOW!!!! If this is GM's future, then I'm optimistic of a comeback (F_O_G--optimistic?!?!?!? What?!?!?!) It's an amazing car and it puts EVERYTHING at Cadillac, except MAYBE the new Escalade, to SHAME!!! (That could be a problem) I hope the engine cover stays!!!

Oh WHAT-EVER dude... LOL... Autoshow cars do undergoe a lot of wear and tear (But then so do rentals, press models and cars in general) But, WOW... Talk about making excuses. But then again, I guess I know how it is to be biased too

***Okay, before I harass The O.C. a little bit I'll say this: I can understand to a large degree what people are talking about with GM interiors... They're good BUT they, like a lot of GM's cars overall, LACK ATTENTION to detail. That said, I don't think the car should be bombed because of these details. And this determines a 25K purchase decision? Better yet, the common consumer actually notices this? I agree. Not BAD, but not as good as they can be... That could be considered a matter of opinion. I agree (Guess I should've read ahead more) Which boils down to: The G6 is damn good, but not good enough. My problem is this; the G6 was PANNED in the media. It got horrible review after horrible review if I remember correctly (Or at least I thought the reviews were bad) Yet, it's NOT a bad car!

LOL... I agree about the quality, I just don't like the design. It's kinda bland. As far as those constantly nitpicking GM interiors.... Well, they've just joined the legions of people who will ALWAYS find a reason as to why the [insert domestic here] isn't as good as the [insert import here] And unfortunately, a LARGE majority of those people are in the press and analyst fields. So, I wouldn't expect the bias to go away anytime soon. If anything it'll get worse as these people try to compensate for differences that aren't really there. Example: 5 paragraphs about ventiports in the C&D Lucerne article, or comments like "soft touch material" or "a similation of quality" or "the mouse fur headliner" and the list goes on and on.... It went from quality, to interiors to panel gaps to resale and now it's in the details and looks as if the next SUBJECTIVE dismissal tool is the "elusive---trust me I'm a pro" FEEL

The article is filled with 'random facts' READ: opinions and quotes. My favorite is this SUSPENSFUL ENDING!!!!! (enter echoed voice and lightning) Wonderful way to end the article as a bias against GM, Ford and Dodge. And they did it so well, by saying this guy OWNS GMCs (Loyalist: "Hey this guy is one of us! He must not be lieing!") I guess that "Most dependable, longest lasting truck on the road" doesn't count for much in these journalists/analysts world of formulated facts. Then you glance back and see how they WERE SURE TO INCLUDE DODGE AND FORD in the criticism. THIS bias and these kinds of articles is why the resounding answer to the question posed by the article is a YES People like this will make SURE Toyota has their way in the truck market an that the loyalists fade faster than a Toyota engine running on 3 month old Quaker State oil. Gonna hafta go with NO on that one.... Toyota will sell as MANY Tundras as they can at all costs. Regardless where it leaves Detroit. If it's as successful as I predict, they'll continue uping production yearly (And this is somewhat already planned with the rumors of HD varients) Toyota is a business, and one that wants it all, for them to simple be 'not aiming to outsell Detroit' would be counter to EVERY move they've ever made. If he likes the look of the Ram, then he should buy the Ram. ***Toyota could put their name on ANYTHING and naive americans would FLOCK to the alter. They are one of the only companies that have the legacy (albeit undeserved) of guranteeing a certain degree of success with anything they do.

If you do want to sell the Trans Am, let me know. I thought about selling my F-bodies a while back too. I was going to go for an SSR with the manual and hotter engine. I love the SSR, but I'm glad I didn't sell my cars to get it. Moral of the story: I think you've made the right choice.

I like it a lot.... I don't like the face as much as the one on the 9-X. I see a lot of Sky, Curve and SS in this concept. I think it's cool!

LOL... Is the media giving GMT900 good reviews because the trucks are actually best in class or is it because they don't want the blood of the final blow to GM on their hands? I think they're best in class and the media is being decently honest, BUT then again, I thought that with the initial Solstice articles too and it got "bested" by the Miata. I expect the same to happen in the Toyota/Honda/GM comparisons... Or either, they just wont compare the imports and domestics to limit the audience.

Agree 100%.... A lot of the newer GM stuff is SO CLOSE it hurts. They just need to go the extra mile. While I'm not really a fan of the G6 interior, I'm currently driving a 2006 Altima and the interior in it flat out sucks. So, GM isn't as behind in some aspects as the press would have you BELIEVE (Because that is the goal isn't it----To have you believe what you know isn't fact)

RE: Josh; LOL Yep!!!! The media is kicking off the "Let's get the GMT900 trucks a lot of bad PR as they launch" campaign early. And from none other than the Detroit news... No surprise there. Maybe, just maybe the drop in sales is anticipation for the new GMT900s and the new Tundra. But no, we can't think logically now, can we? I know my parents are holding off for the new 900s... OH.... GOD!!!!! PLEASE!!!! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Not 6%!!!!!!! Maybe it's that pesky Ridgeline that is cutting production yet, "picking up steam in the market" Since the Titan didn't eat Detroit's lunch like the media predicted, maybe IT will... Or.... MAYBE everyone just all stopped buying domestics at once... Since the new Tundra is going to float down from the sky with a golden halo to your nearest Toyota "nice guys" dealer.... **GASP!** 89% What??? Those losers actually stand their ground???? Yeah right! Remember Detroit; you're role is now just 'damage control' while Japan Inc. slowly phases you out... Or, at least that's what they say. Seriously though, I'm sure Detroit will lose the fullsize truck market just like they have every other market... Those forming the opinions will SEE TO IT that it happens. After all, Toyota will sell every Tundra they build, you can count on it. Yeah right... Give the media about 4 years of RAMMING the fact that Toyota's are as american as Fords and Chevrolets down peoples throats (as they have already started doing) and see how long your LOYALTY lasts The 'loyalty' will be to Toyota and Honda and just like with the analysts comment on the Camry "Toyota buyers are so loyal that I doubt you'll even get them to consider an [inferior] domestic ever again" *** This post is interlaced with angst fueled sarcasm. Not that it matters anyway though.***