FUTURE_OF_GM

Of course, NO mainstream media coverage... No $h! sherlock?!?!?!?! They suffer ALL the time because media idiots like you believe EVERYTHING the import companies say as GOSPEL!!!! If they're not being honest in respect to something AS BASIC AS horsepower ratings, then WHAT ELSE are they LIEING about?!?!?! Oh geez.... The "dismiss it as not a big deal" disclaimer from an industry "analyst" Weak ass OHC motors Okay... 1) OF COURSE NOT!!! They're Honda and Toyota, our saviours and masters. 2) What a stupid reason to sue a company for, and one that I (SURPRISE!!!) hadn't heard about. Americans will do ANYTHING for $$$. READ: all 59 of you.... A their reputation isn't DAMAGED, it's "chipped" A day short and a dollar late... AS ALWAYS! Oh, what the F*ck ever..... Just wait until that new Tundra comes out. THEN we'll see that this statement was a calculated LIE just like 90% of Toyota's PR. Nope... They're MINDLESS drones who buy them because they're told to and they haven't got the sense to GET A LIFE and test drive for themselves. I'd love to meet this 29 year old loser.... I bet he still lives with his parents, wears vanilla khakis and sweaters and hasn't been laid in 10-12 years. Oh, and I love the "let's screw Detroit's perception over" there at the end of this paragraph. It's akin to saying "Toyota and Honda are still better because" with your nose up in the air. More Detroit good sportsmanship that gets them nothing but SCREWED OVER. Wow... Did he have the script in his hand when he read that line? LOL... Yeah, I'm sure of it.... [damage control mode: ON] But, if that were the case, why not BE UP-FRONT with those customers in the first place????????? Well, if "pretty darn competitive" doesn't count for GM (according to the media) then it sure as hell shouldn't count for you. :rotflmao: !!!!!!!! There you have it!!!! A tried and true TOYOTA fan/representative!!!! LIES ABOUT HIS CARS DEFICIENCIES, PULLS THE WOOL OVER THE EYES OF THE CONSUMER 'JUST BECAUSE', IS SO OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY IN HIS TOYOTA MINDF*CK THAT EVENTHOUGH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE TELLS HIM THAT HIS PERCEPTION ISN'T RIGHT HE STILL CONTINUES TO STICK TO IT LIKE A SALTED SLUG AND FURTHERMORE, IF HE DOES BELIEVE THE SCIENCE, BOTCHES THE NUMBERS IN TOYOTA'S FAVOR ANYWAY HEY CONSUMER REPORTS!!!!!!! I found you a new editor!!!!!!!! Frikkin' BEAUTIFUL!!!! I couldn't ASK for a better example. **** This is just a PRIME example of SHADY BACK HANDED Asian business practices. Detroit plays fair, the asians DO NOT. And it's high time that either someone INFORMS the world of that fact OR Detroit stops being a fair handed pansy.

I just hope the aging Epsilon architecture doesn't bring the Aura down. And hopefully GM has PLENTY of room to up production This one really took me by surprise... I had no idea that a new Theta was ready and it seems really weird that Saturn is introducing a new Vue right after it introduced a re-engineered Vue and 2 months after it introduced the first Vue hybrid. But I'm all for it. Hopefully this is the same kind of transition we can see with other vehicles, such as the NG Malibu. I certainly hope it doesn't steal the Solsti's thunder... And I certainly hope the Sky Redline isn't IDENTICAL to the Solstice GXP. IF not for the excitement of the Solstice and the G6 being a solid seller, Pontiac would be D.O.A. right now. I think they're different enough and appeal to differing audiences enough that they won't cannabalize each other. Of course, I'm sure that won't stop the media from comparing them to each other and cross shopping them on purpose so that they can try and limit the buyer base and finish Pontiac off. Funny, how 2 years ago everyone thought that Saturn was the redundant dead duck and now, short of Cadillac or maybe even surpassing Cadillac they are GM's hottest division... I wish GM would do this with ALL of their divisions. What GM is doing/has done with Saturn is a stroke of pure genious and is MUCH overdue.

Okay, lets face it.... Could 'The Rick' have done a better job at running GM? MOST CERTAINLY!!! He doesn't move quick enough or drastic enough. Is GM's current predicament because of 'The Rick'? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Wagoner inherited a sh*t storm and I'm willing to bet that EVERYONE on the inside knows it. I'm also willing to bet that EVERYONE on the inside KNEW that the latest batch of products WOULD NOT be class leading... But what can they do?!?!! Product cycles in 5 years, perception lags by 10 years... About the only thing they could do was push the hell out of the product (incentives, good PR, Lutz talk) and hope for the best. If you go to a gun fight with a knife and your backs against the wall, what do you do? You take what you've got and you give it your best shot and pray that you don't get taken down for good! That's what I think Wagoner and Co. have been doing for the past 2-3 years, while cleaning house on the business side of things (Albeit slowly) But seriously, how fast can they clean house? I mean they're hamstrung by the UAW and Healthcare, they can do NOTHING about this not to mention all of the COMPETITIVE disadvantages that aren't in their control.

Agreed. And Ep II will most certainly be higher volume than Global RWD. That is an EXCELLENT piece of writing right there. It illustrates 2 points perfectly. 1) Emotion is the one pure factor that will SELL a car to an opponents clientele these days. Peter Delorenzo said it best a few years back; now that quality, reliability and a certainlevel of performance are EXPECTED, the new deciding factor in vehicle purchases is increasingly becoming EMOTIONAL APPEAL. The styling of the car, the feelings it brings to mind and it's identity and features. PERFECT EXAMPLE: My girlfriend and I are BOTH communist-like american car lovers. We both drive domestic only and we both HATE on imports as much as possible. The other day a friend of ours took my girlfriend somewhere in her (the friends) VW Passat. My girlfriend comes back and tells me; "THat is a gorgeous car! I'm loyal to DEtroit and all but that was a NICE car." I told her that she had illustrated my point (exactly) that EMOTION and emotional response to a car TRANSCENDS logic. She and I BOTH know what atrocious quality VW has, yet we are both VERY drawn to the car simply because of the emotions it envokes. THEREFORE, it is ESSENTIAL for GM and Ford to LEARN how to evoke that response and apply it to their designs in order for them to win consideration back from BIASED consumers. The FEELING has to cancel out the wall of (false) logic that years of being told that domestic are 'inferior' has built. THAT is the key to Detroit's success, well, along with the EXPECTED virtues, such as quality and ammenities. 2) is VOLUME... In Psychology (I'm a psychology major) one of the first things we are taught is that PREJUDICE people WILL NOT CHANGE THEIR VIEWS BECAUSE OF MINOR contrtadictions to that view. Prejudice is sometimes SO strong that it can be triggered by even cues unrelated to the object of the prejudice. WHAT THIS MEANS: GM or DEtroit for that matter will NEVER change the prejudice against them without a MASS exodus of PROOF that smacks these people on the head and makes them question WHY they are prejudice. ONE model launch here and one model launch there will likely NEVER do the trick. In order for people to wake up and take notice, GM is going to have to make a HUGE splash in a BIG way with SEVERAL CONSISTENT hits. Basically, in order to fight the prejudice against american cars, american carmakers are going to have to BOMBARD the consumer with evidence, spectacular product, testimonials and all sorts of other positive info before those who are prejudice will ever even begin to question their own beliefs. I agree.... The Camaro and the Enclave are PROBABLY two of the best received GM cars in years, and that makes me hopeful for the future. GM *CAN* change opinions if they keep producing knock outs like the Solstice, Sky (Walt has a friend that had driven Toyota's all his life and was so excited about the Sky that he put a deposit on it before even seeing it), Camaro and Enclave. THE PROBLEM though is two fold, 1) CAN GM roll these new introductions out fast enough to bombard the consumer. and 2) CAN GM correctly market them so as to INFORM the biased consumer that their prejudice is in fact WRONG-O.... THOSE aspects are what worry me the most. GM's problem is not the product... It's the PERCEPTION. A G6 competes fine with an Accord for the everyday driver, BUT the perception of the Accord is 10 fold better so it gets the sale. Agree 100% I agree... But, GMT900 should help this tremendously. According to reports, GM makes as much as 10K per GMT900 sold. It's going to be a photo finish though, that's for sure. EXCELLENT POST!!!

LMAO!!! Nice car man!! If I were going to buy an Epsilon I'd probably spring for the 9-3. On a related note, I've traveled that road many times! It's only about an hour from my house.

Well, surprise, surprise... I looked over the article. Ddin't read it because I knew they'd say "Oh well, it's a god-like piece of perfection anyway--- as you were SHEEP!" But don't worry; ayny non-brain washed buyer (are there any left?) can see right through that $h!... I mean 8 trips to the dealer??!?!?! C'mon!!!! And if these problems are evident throughout the line, then Acura is certainly taking a hit with it's consumers on perception and reality.... I'm sure C.R. saved the day for the car though.

I'm sure they wouldn't... BECAUSE THE LACROSSE IS A LOT BETTER from those pictures.

Are they ACTUALLY working on something besides the Solstice? You know, what you see isn't really what you get.

I dunno man.... Hell, they'll prolly just cancel or delay them all in 2 months like they apparently did with all those revolutionary products that included GMT361. (Sorry, I had to be Mr. Negative---it's my job here) Yes, it is!!!! Seriously, give Josh a break.... He was wrong 1 time in like 5 years, or about the SAME rate as our coveted insiders. Very logical and I'm exceptionally pleased to hear GM FINALLY starting to work as a global company! Also very good... NO bland homonogenized designs. Given this point.... AND this point, I have a FEW questions... 1) Are they going to just let GMT360 wither and die, or are they going to pick up 361 again later or are they going to cover that ground with GMT900 and the Lambda's, or more specifically, are we going to see a Lambda TB replacement? 2) Which Malibu did they postpone???? Either way I'm NOT too hip on this idea. GM NEEDS volume and GM NEEDS to fix the Epsilon cars BADLY This ESPECIALLY must happen if Saab is to become relevant and Pontiac is to survive. So anyway, was it the NG Malibu or the EpII Malibu? What worries me about the NG Malibu is that AH-HA has ALREADY stated that it is nice but *MIGHT* be dated even by the time it hits streets on a normal timeframe, so a delay of any sort CAN'T be good. Of course, I guess GM will at least have the Aura in that category. 3) If indeed They have postponed the NG Malibu then what are the chances that since NG and Ep II are apparently only 2 years or so apart they'll just leap frog NG entirely and go straight into Ep II MUCH like they're doing here with global RWD? Very successfully I might add. And THIS point is why I asked that question. Why would GM need to re-engineer everything when GTO and I'm assuming the Buick sedan or convertible flagship READ: Velite (The certain other Zeta) are 1) WELL underway and complete in some aspects and 2 essentially the same thing as Holden is rolling out anyway in Austrailia. Wouldn't it be similar to the original Holden sourced GTO in that all that is needed is skin? (hopefully more differences this time) Afterall, apparently the differences between Global RWD and the original Zeta are minor and component oriented. I'm not so sure about that... GM has committed itself time and again to NOT cut product investment this time around and they know it's essential to a recovery. Plus, according to most articles it's not really a declaration of more lost money so much as it is a reallocation of that lost money. Which poses a HUGE problem for Pontiac *IF* the most recent G8 timeframe I've seen is accurate. And, secondly Lacrosse will supposedly move to Ep II and go where??? (I'm not being contradictory, I honestly haven't heard) Which would open it right up for a RWD replacement and the "other" Chevy coupe AND in the correct timeframe. Or, as Lutz would say; "Within the next 6 months" :AH-HA_wink: But realistically, is that a good thing or a BAD thing??? Shouldn't we be focusing more on expanding Lambda, re-engineering Thetas and getting Ep II on line? Again, I'm not so sure if that's wise.... GM needs to CONFRONT Japan Inc on the Malibu level before they completely take that market too. I'd just like to add a couple of things to this... 1) THis links up with the media reports of sneak peeks at "possible RWD Pontiacs" in that, like the pre released Camaro pictures, the design team could've been working on it. 2) A few of us here at C&G have sources that claim pretty much the same thing and that Camaro was actually the second Zeta design.

HEY!! We criticize GM for EVERY OTHER POSSIBLE, CONCEIVABLE MINOR thing, so why not DRAG it's name through the mud in this respect as well? I've never, ever seen so much built up HATRED for a company in my entire life. And the whole thing is: WHY?!?!?! WHY are these people SO anti-GM that they'll publish an article negatively skanted at SPLITTING hairs about GM's accounting????? Of course, the general "The mighty have fallen" tone and the 'contributor' to the piece and her subsequent book pretty much make the agenda of this piece BLATANTLY visible and obvious.

WOW. And thus ends a legend and an era, just like that... I'm not really sure what to say... I still remember excitedly reading AH-HA's posts back at The Car Connection 6 years ago, back when things were, well, good.. Which is a stark departure from where they are now. It's too bad things have gotten so bad and it sucks that some of us are so hellbent on our mindsets (me included) that we sometimes take things too seriously here. You will be missed and the place will never be the same. Thanks for everything.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how much does the fact that Zeta work has already been done (Before Lutz cancelled it) factor into the equation? I would rather see the weaker divisions get RWD before the bookends (I.E. Buick and Pontiac versions) And those were the lead on the old Zeta program.

So it just received no media attention?!?!?! Par for the course I guess... Competitive domestic so it gets ignored.

:rotflmao:

Okay, here ya go guys: He said something I didn't like, I responded with a post. I DON'T CARE about his background (Is he the idiot that always frantically yells at the camera?) AND furthermore it has NOTHING to do with the sarcastic remark I made. The fact that he is ANTI-GM, just like the rest of the media and analysts has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with his background. And it looks like HE better check his facts if he sincerely thinks Toyota is an american company (I'm sure he doesn't. They just have money, and that's what counts in america, the all mighty dollar. THis countries mentality is that we'll lay our first born at the feet of anyone with more than a couple hundred bucks) NBC certainly isn't right wing. Recently UCLA conducted a study of the top 20 media outlets in america. 18 were left biased and 2 (Fox news; slightly and Washington Post; hugely) were right biased. Therefore the term LIBERAL media certainly applies and I'll leave it at that. But either way it doesn't matter... Both liberals AND conservatives, especially in the media, tend to hate domestics.

It's not that CR picked all jap cars as their best that alarms people... I mean, hell, they know and we all know that jap cars are VASTLY superior to everything american, as does the public (I'm saying this in the P.O.V. of the average car buying idiot) What DOES alarm people is the fact that 8 out of 10 of the vehicles came from 2 companies... It just doesn't hold water and sets off a question mark. Of course, I'm sure A LOT of sheep will still take it as gospel and Detroit will be eroded further.

Looks like THAT guy received his check.... Nah, wait a mintue... The liberal media screws over GM for free these days, I forgot. **GET USED TO THIS.... They have been trying to force GM out and ADOPT Toyota for years and with the hybrid hoopla HIDING the "only positive too" apparently truck production and Jim Press PROCLAIMING Toyota an american company. BOTH sets of arms are stretched WIDE open and a nice big hug is about to ensue in the propaganda... I mean press.

Good Review... GM needs to add AFM to the big motor though.

GM SERIOUSLY needs to fix EPSILON.... If it were up to par, MOST of their volume cars would be hits and would be selling well.

OBVIOUSLY, you haven't read the Yukon threads to closely.

:rotflmao: The Mariner and Milan are doing just fine... That leaves the Montego, which hasn't been a failure by any means. Let's face it, GM and Ford will never recover (Chrysler was excused when they were whored out to the germans) SIMPLY because the media will ALWAYS enforce THESE perceptions and WILL NOT allow them to recover. BUT, that said, there is equity in brands... Just look at Nissan and Infiniti.

People are starting to turn on CR... Everyone I've talked to is suspicious.

It's a suicide worth committing.... Because GM WILL NOT survive if things with the UAW continue as they are.

That's the goal my friend. The Rick opened the door by ASKING that the media not twist GM's arm and talk about bankruptcy because it could hamper sales. And the media has been twisting ever since. Eventually they WILL convince the consumer that GM either is or WILL inevitabley be in Chapter 11 and 75% of consumers said they will not buy from a bankrupt automaker. You do the math.

Here we go again... More anti-GM bull$h!, opinion propaganda articles, just 'for the heck of it'... One of the FIRST things you learn in Business School is that BUSINESS IS CYCLICAL. Nobody cares..... Californians, do you care?!?!?! New York city do you care?!?!?!? Southeastern US, do you car?!?!?!?! NO!!!! NO ONE CARES!!!! Do these people not get it???? Times have CHANGED, americans DO NOT care about the well being of their fellow americans OR the country in general. SO MUCH SO, that these 'educated' 'economist' people are screaming about us trying to protect our national security by NOT SELLING our ports to an organization that sits at the side of terrorism... NO ONE CARES!!! Out of sight, OUT of MIND! If a GM Detroiter loses his job, then FINE he can come to Cali and SERVE me drinks for $5 an hour, Screw his, retirement, his future, his kids college. NOT MY PROBLEM! If a Ford Detroiter loses his job the GOOD, he can move to NY and deliver my UBER LIBERAL Wall Street Journal to me for $5 an hour. His kids, his future, his family???? YEAH right!! If I cared I wouldn't have "CREATED" those stories that ran his company out of business in the first place! HEY, he can always get a job as a TOYOTA MINION.... Oh, wait, they don't employee but 1/16th of what GM much less Ford does.... Well, then maybe he can get a job at WAL-MART in customer service. This is america afterall, land of the servicers/home of the sell outs. FOR GOD'S SAKE GM!!!!!!!! WHY do you NOT advertise this or at least INFORM the general public what is at stake ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? ALL I ever hear is advertisements touting how "Toyota employees 380,000 americans through it's factories and suppliers" WHY DOES GM NOT HAVE A SIMILAR CAMPAIGN?!?!?!?!?!?!?! An epic victory!!! Seriously though... my sentiment for these 'americans' has gotten so bad that I almost hope they GET THEIR wish. See, that's my mentality; if you know you're going to crash the plane, then you aim at the biggest platoon of enemy soldiers you see and full speed ahead for maximum damage. ***And, what exactly was the point of that article?????*** To promote that life IS possible without GM? (The financial publications have already done a good job of that, making american ever more apathetic and naive)