Chicagoland

But most Pontiacs sold at a loss with heavy rebates. I know some Grand Am owenrs who got huge $$ off when buying, but when trading in, got pennies. Profit, not % share is important

Chrysler was able to use same engines in its car brands, but when GM does it, people have panic attacks. Anyway, lets see how long it takes to get the Fiat 500 into CJD showrooms.

Mopar is short for Motor Parts, so who would think its a car? But then again, maybe they should ahve just renamed all the cars and trucks as "Mopar"? Anyway, I wonder what vehicles will get the axe right away. When Iacocca bought AMC, the Alliance and old Eagle 4x4 car [name kept only] were cut first thing. I'd bet on Sebring and Dakota.

Well, considering GM sells more Buicks in China than here, what do you all expect?

In the fall, Congress wanted GM/Mopar to "just go Bankrupt". And others were saying "let them fail, the Southern non union plants can pick up slack". Now, their dealer [lobby] buddies want favors as payback.

To all the hand wringers, when was last time you all bought a brand new GM car? Lots will say 'I never buy new', then complain about lost sales and closings. Also, if there is a Pontiac and Chevy dealer across one street, and each claiming there 'Delta based car' is 'better', how does that help GM if the sale loses money? And, since GM is $28 B in debt, how are they going to whip up these dream RWD/V8 cars for a 'big comeback'?

To all the hnad wringers, when was last time you all bought a brand new GM car? Lots will say 'I never buy new', then complain about lost sales and closings. Also, if there is a Pontiac and Chevy dealer across one street, and each claiming there 'Delta based car' is 'better', how does that help GM if the sale loses money? And, since GM is $28 B in debt, how are thye going to whip up these dream cars like the 60's for a 'big comeback'?

"it's not a real Pontiac" 1st, Pontiac has shared GM parts since 1926. 2nd, the last Pontiac motor was the Iron Duke 4, a POS. Last, most of the iconic Pontiacs were on shared A, B, F, or other shared platforms with Chevy/Olds/Buick. The Fiero was its own, but used Chevette parts. I cant think of any other 'unique' Poncho, the 61-63 Tempest shared with Olds/Buick. The 64-72 GTO/LeMans shared quite a lot with the A body Chevelle. But, back then more was done to differentiate cars so the loyalty come about. However, in the collector car market, A bodies are grouped together by parts catalogs, and not thought of as 'separate cars' anymore.

No Skyhawk or 'Lark, bring a fresh new name.

I will believe that Saturn is 'rescued' when the ink is dry and Penske gets some products built under contract. Till then who knows?

"The loss of LaSalle probably hurt just as much but here we are today." There were others, Olds' companion brand, Viking and Buick's Marquette went away at same time. Pontiac was a companion to Oakland. Are these missed that badly?

I havent seen any G3's anywhere except on dealer lots, collecting dust and acid rain. There was a dealer trying to sell G3 for $15000! Does it have a 400 Ram Air VIII in it???

"if GM ever gets healthy and brave enough to build it " And if the people who claim they would buy concept cars would actaully BUY them, instead of talking about it. Will the Camaro get enough buyers?

Posted b4, what true Pontiac loyalist would buy a Chinese/Russian/Hungarian/Turkish made thing called "Pontiac Gobblety-Goop"? Remember the last LeMans? [be glad if you dont!] The Solstace would cost a lot more, if it was sold off to a tycoon, since it would have to have sub-contracted parts, etc. GM is protecting Pontiac's history, and they make $$ off the licencing for retoration parts. Wouldn't one want to see more restored old Pontiacs, than "new" ones built in Timbuktu? There's no 'savior car maker' who can whip up new versions of RWD F and A bodies. Someone posted "I'd like to see a new Pontiac GTO based on Nissan GTR", AS IF that would happen!!!

So, Pontiac loyalists would buy Chinese cars with Pontiac names on them? LOL, yeah right. GM makes $$ with licencing of old brand names for tpys, aftermarket, restoration parts, etc. GM is better off doing that, to help the collector car hobby, than slapping arrow badges on Chevy Aveos/Cobalts and calling them Pontiacs. Better to just remember how it was, instead of thinking time can go backwards. As for Saturn, it is able to be stripped from GM and they can sell cars made in Russia or Viet Nam for all I care.

One major reason Olds/Buick sales declined was their loyal buyers went to the great beyond, or cannot drive anymore. How many stories are there of elderly drivers in a Buick/Olds crashing into a store, that sure hurts sales too.

The question really is "What brand will Rental Firms turn to for cheap cars?".

Chrysler simply kept making JUNK [before and after Daimler buy out] and believed they could keep getting away with it. The LX cars ended up being a fad, and the rest of the cars were utter crap, as if no one would notice? Their only reliable cars are theirold designs, like K cars and minivans Any new designs still had bugs in them [Neon, and the horrid Sebring ], they used buyers as guinea pigs .

Shows how some fall hard for GM's sales pitches and brand psychology. But the rest of the real world knows better and sees through the smoke and mirrors. Pontiac has not made its own motors since 1981, and even then they were the lame 301. Chevrolet had 50% of GM's sales in the 60's, and Pontiac used common parts with GM brands back then too. So, if not for Chevy, there would be no Pontiac.

"Anyone want to take bets as to how long Buick lasts or how long until Obama and his minions assassinate GMC?" As if the GOP was going to 'save GM'? Last I heard, they said 'foreign plants have lower cost labor and can pick up the slack' along with saying to the UAW and all of MI. Point a finger at the Tubes and GM retired managers, they F'ed up badly. Easy to blame media and govt, but the state of denial that 'imports are a fad' is what killed them.

Some forget that the GOP basically told Motown to "f off" and that Hyundai in Alabama can 'pick up the slack'. They see Detroit as UAW and non-white voters that they don't care about. So, don't blame anyone, if McCain/Palin won, they would have said, "sayonnra, everyone can buy Asian from now on"

Good question for all of C&G, who bought a brand new Pontiac in past few years? Those people should only be polled. Buyers of 10 year old Grand Ams dont count in new car polls.

Yes, the 60's GTO is revered, but the big Bonnevilles, Catalinas, Tempests, and LeMans brought in the bacon back then. The Catalina family car was #1 selling Pontiac in the 'glory days'. And, Pontiac even sold a lot of Station Wagons! And, the GTO is an A body derivative, not a unique body shell, as some younger car fans assume. i.e. GTO gets compared to Mustang too many times, when it was not a Pony Car. So, to me, the essential Pontiacs were the big sellers: Catalina, Bonneville, Big and mid sized GP, and all versions of their A bodies. [Tempest -> GTO]

Pontiac dealers always wanted what Chevy had and competed. One auto writer said it best that, "It used to be better looking versions of Chevys, but then they turned into UGLIER versions of Chevy" So, $$$ is wasted on marketing, instead of engineering, pushing the same basic car, but it is supposedly "better" since it has a different name. The distinction worked from 1926 to 1979, but the look alike boxy X and A bodies killed it. So by now many people just say "Pontiac, Buick, whatever all GMs are the same".

"The Rockford Files" went through 74, 75, 76, 77, and 78 Esprits. The 74-75's were nearly brown, while the 76-78 cars were lighter tan. Dissappointment was in the reunion movies, Rockford still had a 78, instead of a new 90's Firebird. Oh, and all F bodies were made in same plants, Chevy and Pontiac, so even then Pontiac didnt build their cars, the UAW did. BUT, they had more distiction before the X/A/W/N alphabet soup cars. GM's biggest mistake was assuming people "wouldnt care" and made their brands too alike.