Chicagoland

Welcome to the real world fan boys, who really expected gas to be forever cheap? And that "the boys will be back in town" driving all new GM RWD cars from all size segments?. As predcited by may with old GM car names as their screen names

Welcome to reality gear heads, old timers and weepy eyed nostolgia fans. Who really thought cheap gas was forever, and CAFE would disappear? Can scream and hollar all day, write Congress, send email petitions, stop buying gas on Sundays, but we aren't going to see $1-2 a gallon ever again. And wake up, world is not going to go back in time. You think Russia and China is going to stop allowing people to buy new cars, so we can get all the oil we want? And, do you really think GM can 'only be saved by all big RWD cars'? The only way any large #'s of RWD big sedans will be produced in the future is if they are hybrids, diesels, or all electric cars. Even sane car fans are not eager for a 12 mpg car to drive every day. "Future of GM" is not 1965, and all the unsold big trucks that "Real Americans want" shows that most people are wising up, and moving on.

Gearheads want RWD fast cars, but then how many really buy brand new ones? Most get used ones to 'save $' and expect 20-30 year old sticker prices. No way can GM risk bad PR to make gas hogs to please hobbyists who don't buy new cars. GM has to keep the Corvette and Camaro competitive and offer economy cars to offset them. Expecting a full line-up of muscle cars as the 60's is a dream long gone. Also, most younger buyers have little interest in big RWD V8 coupes, they either want compact sport coupes {Camaro/Mustang...} or AWD turbo sedans [Evo/WRX], so there is no market potential, and gas will NEVER be cheap again for new CAFE. And, if you think CAFE sux, then organize a lobbyist group and contact Congress, but I dont expect much will happen.

With high gas prices and people barely getting by, don't expect the Camaro/Challenger to do any 'whoopinmg'. Many fans want to SEE a new Camaro for sale, but they won't spend the $$. After the 'first on blocks' get theirs, then the 'whopping' will come to them. Anyway, yeah, it is good to see Focus kick the rears of the 'it should be C1' or 'it should look the same as the 2000' naysayers.

The overrated 300 series is tanking, shows what a fad it was. Also, lots of used 2005-07's on the market of LX cars, stealing sales for new ones.

The rah-rah crowd a few years ago kept saying 'Toyota is going to take the last Detroit market" as if it would be so easy for Tundra to shoot to #1 p/up. They just don't know the real truck market! They only know the suburban materialistic buyer market.

Automobile rag has done stuff like this for years, nothing new. No big deal, i don't buy them since they are for the snooty wine and brie crowd.

Unfortunately, the car companies can't 'screw CAFE' and gas is pushing $4 a gallon, so no, large RWD 4- and 2 doors would not be selling now. Toyota is dropping the Solara, so that arguement went out the window. The Accord and Altima coupes are really compacts, and GM has the Camaro to match. The days of huge sales of 'opera window coupes' are gone with Disco. But I do agree, the big three 'thought' that trucks were the "never ending gravy train" 10 years ago, and look now. But at least the new Malibu is getting solid reviews and no recalls, so that is something!

Mustang is down from economy, it's a toy/fun/2nd car. People are saving $$ and not blowing it on a 'show mobile.' Bet the Dodge Challenger V6 models won't be in high demand, nor the 2010[?] Camaro V6, if it ever gets to market. Focus is new enough to get average comapct car buyers, who couldn't care less about European pedigree. [The C2 Focus over there is ugly I think] But it will need to be replace about the time the C346 Focus comes. And BTW, that 'all new' 2009 Toyota Corolla is a bad re-fresh compared to the current Focus.

Impreza is up, after all the belly aching about the new styling. Looks like the Scoobie fans fianlly have got 'used to them'. Happens all the time with car fanatics, they hate new looks, then get used to them after maybe a year.

Yeah, all 9000 of them, + 9000 more Chrysler 300's. [bTW, how many Charger fleet cars were sold?] Compared to hundreds of thousands getting FWD or AWD vehicles [entire market]. Again, the idea that RWD,alone will 'save' Detroit? Look at Mopar, its #1 car is FWD again.

99% [exaggeration] of Uplanders are going to Post Offices. See more of them as Post Office delivery trucks than ever seen with families in them.

Ponitacs have always, always shared body shells with other GM brands, since 1926. So, now its with Holden, big deal. Only the Fiero was a stand alone Pontiac, but then it used some Chevette parts. It was an 'old lady car' until Bunkie Knudsen pulled the old timer trim of the '57, and John Z dropped the 389 into the Tempest. Pontiac never was a separate car company bought by GM as Olds, Chevy, Buick and Caddy. It's cool to be Ponitac fan, but dont think that it was once 100% all separate parts/car company/brand from the rest of GM.

What is ironic is the "Confererate States", like Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, Tennesee, So. Carolina gave tax breaks to 'furrin car' plants.

"That was many, many decades ago...very few people remember or care. Their performance image from the '60s-70s is the.." Umm, you prove a point, the 60's and 70s are NOW many decades ago, and to a car buyer under 35, [who lives far from Michigan] Pontiac is tarted up Chevies, with ribbed cladding. [The last Ponitac V8 died 27 years ago.] To them, the 60's is ancient history and couldnt care less. And the 70's is looked on as the joke decade, more to make fun of than to revere. So, GM has to sell what people want to buy, not what "60's forever" activists want to see. And no way will the US ever see cheap fuel again and GM with 60% market share.

Congrats Camino LS6 on buying new g8. However, to the post "I don't buy new...GM, make Pontiac the budget BMW competitor" If one doesn't buy brand new Pontiacs to contribute $ to the bottom line, how can they expect Pontiac to prosper, and why make demands, when you will only buy used ones for zero profit to GM? point is don't complain if you are not a paying new car customer.

300 sales down, shows that big V8 RWD cars are not what will 'save Detroit'.

I think Saturn's no haggle pricing is hurthing them, over all. People know how to deal and want to get the lowest price. Chevy dealers can make a sale easier by lowering the price. Saturn is stuck with the high price on the Aura, and then people wonder. Also, G5 went from 1300 to 1900, 50%, but not much numerically. Still the Malibu is doing better than the experts predicted! W body Impala is starting its fade out, down alot!

People dont all think alike. I can believe people are buying it. "Everyone in the US" isn't wishing for old GM iron. The new Focus is fine and didn't need the C1 chasiss to sell. The Euro-philes end up getting used Jettas anyway.

yay, finally updated the titles!!

So many 'enthusiasts' don't know about the real car business. They think since the magazines like a car, or that "it's fast", that it will be around a long time. Question is, why don't they buy? For collectibility, it takes over 25 years for any payback. Also, the Magnum isn't a GNX or Indy 500 Pace Car. Magnum more likely will be an "edsel" type of collector car.

Well, there is this magic thing called a ship that can carry huge loads of cars over the ocean.

Isn't this about Jeep Wrangler 4 door sales? Reason Chrysler didn't think of it sooner is there is still the outdated notion of 2 doors being 'sportier' by old time 'car guys' in Detroit. Many times not having a 4 door version of a product hurt since old prodcut planners think the 1960's and 70's were still going on, when 2 doors were the rage.

No, Chevy needs a CUV, 3 row vehicle. Gas isn't getting cheaper, and there needs to be a mainstream version, not just higher end brands.

Well, just a reminder to C&G, 2007 ends in 2 weeks, and then the 2008 Detroit Auto show is shortly after that. Looks like it is time for a new "2008 Auto Show Coverage" section. Happy Almost New Year!