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smk4565

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Everything posted by smk4565

  1. smk4565
    It is sold as a taxi because it is probably the longest lasting sedan there is. It also doesn’t change the price. We in the USA choose not to pay $60k for a taxi or police car. Volume is also a good thing, it means you survive. Unlike GS, Q70, RLX, CT6, MKX, Continental soon, etc. No volume, no longer here.
  2. smk4565
    The E-class starts $18k more than a CT5, and a CT5-V maxes around $65k, the E63 goes over $142,000 with all options and even I think the ala carte options list on a Mercedes is nuts, more of that needs packaged or worked in. And sure there will be a CT5 Blackwing, maybe that is $90k, but that is a far cry from $142k. And the G80 is a nice effort but no match for the E-class or 5-series.
  3. smk4565
    Every car has options, the CLA goes over $60k with all options. CT5’s will obviously transact around $45-50k. But options or no options, it is still an entry lux competitor, it isn’t in mid-luxury.
  4. smk4565
    What does CT5 compete with? What is the target market? Acura RL, RLX, Lexus GS, Infiniti Q70 are dead. E-class, A6 and 5-series are still going strong. Germans won that round.
  5. smk4565
    How would you like to compare CT5? Or what does it compare to? Cadillac CT5 is 194 inches long, $36,895. Toyota Avalon is 196 inches long $35,875. Is that the competition at this point? We have Acura TLX at 191 inches long and $33,000. Or 184 inch Mercedes CLA at $36,650?
  6. smk4565
    CT5 is a C-class competitor, the CT5 actually costs less than a C-class. CT6 is out of production. Genesis plans to go into the luxury sedan segment with reliability and low maintenance cost as their sales pitch, but Lexus and Acura tried that and failed. And Genesis has a less than 5 year track record so we don’t really know if their long term reliability is good.
  7. smk4565
    Just announced: Acura RLX is dead after 2020 model year. The so called "more reliable than a German car" Japanese brands have now totally left the mid luxury sedan market, Cadillac left the segment, and Lincoln will soon when the Continental dies.
  8. smk4565
    GV70 is coming soon, the prototype is in testing now, but it is a small, rear drive SUV like a BMW X3. It isn't as big as an RX350, nor is it front drive, which I think is for the better.
  9. smk4565
    Where Genesis is in 50 years doesn’t pay the bills today. The G80 is in a shrinking segment with no performance model and no hybrid and just 2 engine choices. It looks like a nice car but this brand changes styling dramatically every 5 years, G80 will probably look dated shortly after being on market and sales will slump after the first year. GV80 looks like it could be strong because that is a growing segment, Infiniti is dead in the water, the MDX is old, the XT6 is a weak entrant, Lexus GX is ancient. If they steal 500 sales a month from each of those and get 1,000 Hyundai/Kia trade up buyers, now they start getting 3,000 sales a month and have something going there.
  10. smk4565
    Mercedes built the first super car in the 1954 300SL, the best car in the world in the 1960s with the 600. And Benz invented the car and Dialmer/Benz were around over 50 years before ever coming to the US. Genesis doesn’t have 50 years as Asia’s premier car brand that is just coming to the US for the first time. These guys are starting from scratch like Lexus or Acura did. Out of the gate Lexus had more success than Genesis had. Lexus made an image, Genesis hasn’t, they don’t know what they want to be.
  11. smk4565
    Same rules apply to everyone. If you are going into a new segment as a challenger you better wow it. This is why the Toyota Tundra is a sales dud and the Detroit 3 trucks smash it. Tundra is dated, bland, no wow factor, no clear advantage over what is already there. Which is inexcusable with Toyota's resources. Even more so if you are launching a new vehicle into a shrinking segment. You have more room for error if you are going into a booming segment .
  12. smk4565
    I said I think the Genesis looks nice, they've shown the production car interior. I'd still like to sit in it to see it first hand. We don't have a full reveal of the S-class, so we can't judge it yet, and I said the same thing when the Escalade leaked out, I want to see the actual reveal. The G80 is a nice car, I think it is their nicest vehicle inside and out, but it is going to be a sales struggle because 20 cars came before them and failed, and Genesis isn't doing anything those guys didn't already do. CTS is gone. CT5 is also a C-class competitor. We can throw CT6 on that list too though. The G80's starting price is $5k lower than the CT6, and it is a smaller car. Is the G80 all that much better than a CT6? Especially when Cadillac has a 100 year old name brand and built in loyal buyers and a dealer network.
  13. smk4565
    Tesla is pulling the industry in an EV/autonomous drive/minimalist interior direction. The S-class will be far more luxurious than anything Tesla makes. And we haven't seen the final S-class interior, but what they seem to be doing it getting rid of plastic buttons which often look cheap in favor of a big screen.
  14. smk4565
    Dearly beloved, we are gathered here to day to remember those lost in their battle with the E-class and 5-series.... R.I.P. 1996 1997 2006 2006 2008 2011 2012 2012 2016 2016 2018 2019 2019 2020 All of them entered the mid-price luxury segment and all of them are gone. What makes the G80 any different from them? It looks plain, but I'd like to see the actual real version. But I think this minimalist styling with lots of screens is going to be the way of the future. And whatever the S-class does, the others will chase, the 2030 G80 interior will look like that.
  15. smk4565
    Took Mercedes decades to build volume in the US, but they were a premier luxury car in Europe since the 1900s. Genesis is new every where and yes it takes a long time to build a brand. But to build a brand and come into a crowded market you need a product that can steal sales. Even if Infiniti folds with a recession that market share will get divided up.
  16. smk4565
    I am not saying Genesis has to outsell everyone. I am saying if they want to win, they need SUV's obviously, and to build a better car. Mercedes built the best car, that is why they took over the luxury market. I like the G80's new look, the interior is nice too. But is it better than the competition? I don't think better, so is the $5k price discount enough to overcome that? Genesis is basically doing what Cadillac did 6-7 years ago, with ATS, CTS and CT6, that is what G70, G80, and G90 are in size and price, they are almost identical. This G80 is nicer than the CTS, and G90 is nicer than CT6 was, but they probably don't have the chassis dynamics, so that could be a trade off. And those Cadillac sedans didn't find success 5 years ago, now the sedan segment is even less, how does Genesis succeed where Cadillac failed?
  17. smk4565
    But the US has never been Mercedes key market, it is their #3 market. And from that chart sales were a pretty steady rise and even more so in the 80s and 90s as they added more models. Also Mercedes came in way higher in price than Genesis is at. Maybe Genesis will add more models and grow, but in a declining auto market I don't see who they are stealing gobs of market share off of.
  18. smk4565
    Here's the thing about Genesis: the model line up, the dealer network, the inventory, those are all things they control. Any miscue with those is self inflicted. Things their management screwed up. If they can't get basics like dealer network and inventory right, I don't know how they get to building vehicles considered among the best in the world. More power isn't going to save the Stinger, the car is priced wrong. SUVs have crushed sedan sales because buyers needed more room, more cargo space, wanted AWD, etc. Coupes are almost disappearing from the market, because buyers want more space, back seats, etc. The Toyota Camry's drop in volume is mostly because of the RAV4. That is where the sales went. Today's RAV4 segment is the mid-size sedan segment of 15 years ago. Today's sedan market is the coupe market of 20 years ago. Kia should have gone after buyers that wanted a sports car like a Camaro/Mustang/BRZ but need 4 doors and all wheel drive. They marketed the car to the wrong people, on top of pricing it wrong. My comparison with Telluride is only that the Telluride has a nice interior, the Stinger doesn't and they come from the same company. Telluride is best in class interior, the Stinger is probably the worst interior you can get for a car of that price point.
  19. smk4565
    6 years of powertrain warranty, but only 1 year of bumper to bumper. Something that doesn't matter to a lease customer, which is the majority of the luxury market. That extra warranty may help, selling cars at 80% the cost of rivals I am sure helps, but Genesis still has really low sales figures. So clearly what they have done isn't enough. The Nurburgring is more about the engineering that went into the car. Is this Genesis a fancy Hyundai, or does it have Porsche or Mercedes level engineering? I know Genesis has it's own rear drive platform, but do they have engineers at Genesis that can make a G80 perform on par with a mid-engine super car, because the Germans have engineers that can.
  20. smk4565
    By bad dealer network I didn't mean the dealerships themselves were bad, but that the network was too small. Now if they are back to 318 dealerships, that is about what Lexus has, BMW and Mercedes have about 350-360. So Genesis isn't that out numbered and yet their sales volume is very low. Mostly that low volume is no crossovers, but crossovers have been on the rise for 10 years. Why on earth did they launch a brand with 3 sedans first, before making a crossover? That is totally incompetent management. Genesis has better reliability than Jaguar, but warranty didn't help Jaguar, and it isn't helping Genesis either. Unless by not offering a 5 year warranty, their sales would drop even more. Genesis is trying to make an argument that they have the more reliable car with the best warranty, but Lexus already has that reliability title built over decades. The Stinger is larger than a 3-series sure, but Kia positioned that car as premium sports sedan and some of the German sedan names were thrown around. When really no one wants a $50,000 Kia, even if it has 365 hp. You can get a 400 hp Mustang for $40k and the interior is about the same. Even within Kia, the Telluride has a better interior than the Stinger and the Telluride is a 3 row SUV with AWD that should cost more than a 2 wheel drive mid-size sedan. Stinger was the wrong car because of where they priced it in the market. I could also argue that a performance SUV might have sold, in a sea of FWD crossovers like Edge, Blazer, Passport, etc, if the Stringer was a 365 hp rear drive SUV priced int he $30-40k range with that bunch it could have been a success. So the big problem with Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is timing. These guys do what the Germans did 10 years ago, because by the time they copy the idea, design the car, get the budget, build the models, wind tunnel it, track test it, crash test it, etc then get it to production, they are a generation behind where the market is.
  21. smk4565
    Kia Stinger is rumored to die after just one generation. Genesis has a bad dealer network but that is their fault, and own mismanagement of the brand launch. In 2018 they had more dealers than Lexus before the closed half of them. Still they have about 2/3rd the dealers of other luxury marques. But what use is this warranty if they don’t have dealerships to service the cars. Jaguar offers 5/60,000 bumper to bumper warranty with 5 years complimentary maintenance and 5 years roadside assistance. Hasn’t helped sales any, they are still terrible. Genesis offers 3 years complimentary maintenance.
  22. smk4565
    And yet their cars don't sell, even when under cutting competitors by $5k on G70 and G80 and offering a longer warranty. What else they got? I think they might gain a bit more traction in crossovers where Acura and Infiniti have dated product, the XT4, XT5 are nothing remarkable, Lincoln Nautilus is pretty average. But Lexus and the Germans are pretty strong there too, we'll have to see how the GV70 looks when it hits as that is the key segment.
  23. smk4565
    I don’t think an extra year of warranty is going to sway any buyers on a luxury car.
  24. smk4565
    G80 is supposed to start just under $50k, and the press car photos are no doubt more like $70k, so pretty close to German car money, G80 starts about $5k lower than E-class or 5-series. The G80 doesn't have more performance, it doesn't have a hybrid, it doesn't have any tech that isn't already on the competition. Likewise with the GV80. They haven't done anything better than what is already offered for roughly the same money. So what's the appeal here? Yes it is better than the Lexus GS which dies after 2020 model year, better than an Acura RLX or Lincoln Continental, both of which will probably be dead in a year or two, but aside from that, where are they finding buyers in a shrinking sedan segment? Are they going to pull people out of SUVs into a G80? Are they hoping Sonata drivers spend double the money and upgrade to G80? I think this car will be a sales dud much like I predicted the Kia Stinger would flop and it has. The Stinger should have been priced dollar to dollar even with a Mustang and been marketed as Mustang/Camaro with 4 doors that can fit a family. Instead they tried to spin it as a 3-series competitor and that was huge miss.
  25. smk4565
    After seeing the new G80 launch and Q&A on Motortrend, the car is nice. The interior looks good, the materials look good, but I don't know that is any nicer than an E-class or 5-series, at best it is on par with them. And it doesn't have the power or performance of them, doesn't have any pedigree either. G80 is a good effort, but not going to beat the big boys.
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