smk4565

The Mach-E is about the size of an Escape, and the Escape and gas Mustang start in the mid $20s. You can easily argue the Mach-E is better than an Escape or Mustang but is it $15-20k better? EV’s still need to get cheaper, and that will happen I am sure, but for short term it is still a big ask to get volume on something like a Mach-E. Also I was just reading an article on how investors are seeing revenue for ICE car sales as worthless in their valuation of a company and may soon even see ICE as a negative. Timing the big EV change over right will be what determines winners and losers.

Georgio can be the platform, it would weigh less and they’d use a turbo 4, maybe a mild hybrid in the 2020s as the bridge to EV. And a turbo V6 would replace the Hemi, so they’d gain on emissions there. As for V-series, I don’t know who they are attracting in, the German cars are faster and Acura/Lexus people don’t care about performance.

True, I misunderstood and thought you meant Camaro wouldn't go away. Mustang would gain the most if/when the Camaro dies. I would assume the Challenger has an older buyer base than either, and the Charger/Challenger have a lot of fleet reliance. The problem with all these sports coupes is the market keeps shrinking, the sports sedan is like the new sports coupe. And the crossover replaced what was the "sports sedan" of 20 years ago.

The Challenger can't have much time left given how old the platform is and CAFE and emissions are issues. They could do a Georgio platform car, or make an EV I guess. Depends on what Stellantis sees as the future. Mustang will always be around, but I suspect the Mach-E will be outselling the traditional gas coupe within a few years. Mustang has that low start price and convertible they push on rental fleets in Florida. Camaro I think is a question mark because there are already rumors that 2023/2024 will be the end of the Camaro. And these Blackwings are the last new gas V-series Cadillacs. Although very possible that when all this stuff goes EV, that there is a Camaro EV in the 2025-2030 time frame, but coupe sales are pretty low, Chevy would be better served with an EV sedan at a more affordable price point.

A BMW 340i has the same 0-60 time as the CT4-V Blackwing, not even an M3, just a 340i. And the Audi RS3 has a 3.5 second 0-60 time, faster than either Blackwing, M5 Competition does 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, etc. AMG holds the Nurburgring record for 2 door car, 4 door car, and station wagon, and 3rd place for SUV, so I think AMG can handle a Blackwing on a track. But that being said, if you liked the ATS-V and CTS-V then I imagine you would like these because it is basically the same powertrains and performance. Or if you wanted a 4-door Camaro ZL1 with a better interior, the CT5 Blackwing fits the bill. GM performance fans will buy these up, and I suspect as the Camaro sort of fades away (declining coupe sales), these 2 will pick up some of that market. I think the pricing is pretty spot on for the CT4-V, the CLA45, RS3 and 340i are all 56k, with equal options they all probably line up in price pretty close and you have some good comparisons in there. The CT5 Blackwing I think they should have priced at $79,900 to match the Tesla Model S, but they sold out their first run so I guess no need to. And given the lower volumes on these, they can probably get people to pay that ask price and not run the risk of getting too big a supply on dealer lots.

Rumor is it looks like an airplane yoke because they are getting ready for the Roadster which can “fly for a little bit” according to Elon. And the thought is a pull back could activate the take off. But otherwise the no stalks thing I think is dumb.

We don’t know that Cadillac is profitable since GM doesn’t split out brand financials but I am sure they are. What Musk is banking on is getting to wheeler instead of selling a Model 3 for $50k and making no profit, getting that car to be a robo taxi and have it generate an income stream, and record all the data like how Google tracks web traffic and monetize that data. Then that Model 3 might generate $100k of revenue and he is now making $50k profit per car and he still owns the car until he takes it out of commission and recycles it into a new car and repeats the process.

More expensive than Tesla isn’t really a good strategy unless the car is amazing. And Mercedes and Porsche will be there too before the Celestiq, and you still have gas powered competition too. Autopilot doesn’t need mapped roads like Super Cruise does and I think the 2022 S-class is the only level 3 autonomy car available this year although Elon claims the Model S will be. Although I don’t think the differences in self driving systems will sway buyers to one brand or another. It is about the race to level 5 autonomy so Tesla can sell rides in a robot taxi and have a car generate 5-10 years of revenue rather than a 1 time sale.

For sure companies will have huge economies of scale by have 2-3 differ sized electric motors and then they can decide how many motors to put on a vehicle. That part is cheap and will simplify things greatly. What isn’t cheap is the batteries.

Cadillac should be able to beat Tesla on interior. But Tesla does have horsepower, range and self driving technology advantages over everyone. So Porsche, Mercedes, Cadillac or anyone else need to change the narrative and beat Tesla at something else. Worldwide Tesla outsells Cadillac, and Cadillac had a 100 year head start on them. I don’t think Cadillac is going to put the Lyriq and Celestiq on sale and magically catch Tesla. It will take more than that.

Right that is why I think 4-cylinder gas cars will be here a good while because you can't get an EV under $35k with current battery prices. Just like you can't get a V8 powered car for $30k, most V8 powered vehicles are like $50k and up now. EV's will take over that $50k and up market first.

It is, but it looks bad on the stat sheet if the other guy has a 500 mile option.

Tesla Model S Plaid+ has 520 mile range. Which is a major problem for a 2025 model with a 300 mile range or the Taycan and its 225 mile range. I think you can always have a 350-300 mile range as a base car, but all these EV's need a 400+ mile option too.

The Bolt for what it is, should be about $25k and not $40k to compete with a gas car. The Bolt is comparable to a Chevy Trailblazer. So until they can suck a ton of cost out of the Bolt, gas cars aren't going anywhere.

GM wants electric cars because that is what investors like. Tesla is worth $800 billion and GM is worth $70 billion. GM (and every car company) wants investor money and want to look like a tech company like Apple or Google. I think EV's will replace V12, V10, V8 most quickly because high power vehicles are expensive, probably V6 gets phased out in like 10 years. But if you look at what they are proposing and with what EV's cost, I don't see a a small-mid size EV crossover with say 250 hp, 250 mile range going on sale for $25,000 any time soon. And those $300k Camry's and 400k Rav4 sales in the $25k range aren't going to be replaced by $50k electric SUVs with $1,000 monthly payments.

Young people don't buy any new cars at all because even a Sentra or Corolla is like $25k. Cars have go to a price point where basically retirees or empty nesters can afford new ones. The other problem with their ad is they talk of the "electric future" when Tesla can sell you an EV today.

All GLS's can tow 7,700 lbs (if you get the optional class IV hitch which is like $500 or something). And the Maybach GLS seats 4. And you are right, it isn't comparable to an Escalade. Escalade buyers have to drive themselves, Maybach owners pay someone to drive for them. We'll see what the final Celestiq is in final version and what they price it at. The Mercedes EQS has a larger screen than the Celestiq has, but I think these huge screens are gimmicks, and screens are basically cheap. They could put a 36 inch touch screen in a Kia Forte and probably only raise the cost of the car by $500. So everyone will have screens, what isn't cheap is actual leather, wood, metal, suspension systems, powertrains, etc.

But they built them. They have always had high performance cars going back to 1902. That is why Mercedes is the best luxury brand, they have a reasonably priced A220 or GLB250 and they have $225k S-classes and $300k AMG sports cars and they have every body style, sedan, coupe convertible, wagon, hatchback, crossover coupe, SUV, 4-door coupe, etc.

S-class coupe/convertible going away because they have a new AMG designed SL taking over that whole upper end segment. The GT coupe/convertible are staying for the next generation. And the market for $150k convertibles is small. CLS is going to die and maybe AMG GT 4-door because they have the EQE and EQS, so 2 sedans die, 2 new sedans take their place. Nothing confirmed on the C and E coupe/convertible. I suspect they keep one or the other, they won't kill both. There was also rumor of merging them into a CLK type car that would be a coupe/convertible in that middle range which would make sense, because they have to have a 2-door option that isn't a $100k car like the SL.

G-wagon is hand built, that is they they farm it out. They can't run it down their line in Stuttgart. And the S-class is really their flagship car, it has all their best tech and they just built the most advanced car factory in the world to build it. And the S-class goes to the highest price aside from the Black Series cars or AMG One that are specialty projects. Escalade-V, CT4, CT5 Blackwing is all good, but I think they can do more. The CT5 Blackwing will have 650 hp, but it will still have an interior out of a $40k car. And the other problem I think the CT5 Blackwing will run into is it will probably be $80-90k, a base Tesla Model S has 670 hp and will be faster without even going to the Plaid. They need a more luxurious sedan than the CT5. Maybe they will hit a home run with Celestiq and solve that problem, too early to tell on that. And where are XT4, XT5, XT6 V-series? Unless they are just putting all R&D into a future line of electric SUVs and plan to kill those 3 off by 2025 and don't want to waste money on them, in which case I'd agree with their strategy.

Mercedes built the fastest car in the world for the 1900-1909 decade, they had the ultra lux 540k roadster driven by royalty in the 30's, the 770k limos used by the Nazis, the 1954 300SL, the 600 Grosser which cost double a Rolls-Royce in 1963, the 450SEL 6.9 in the 1970s (the most powerful, fastest sedan at the time) the V12 W140 in the 90s, the 604 hp S65 in the early 2000s when a Corvette ZO6 had 405 hp. Mercedes has long had performance cars, they took place in the first automobile race in 1894, they set the land speed record in 1904 at 97 mph and again in 1911 at 141 mph. They have 125 years of racing history, no brand can say that. As far as competing with Tesla, I think Mercedes will have a hard time. I think Mercedes can outdo Tesla on interiors and build quality all day long, but will be tough to beat Tesla on range and performance and possibly technology and self driving. Mercedes has some advantages like manufacturing capacity, but they are starting from well behind as far as EV's go.

The G-wagen sells well, probably the #1 selling vehicle in the world with a starting price over $125k. The CT6-V was the same price as a base V6 S-class and they killed it off because Cadillac was still not competitive in the segment. Just like the XLR, STS-V, ELR bombed. If any of these top end Cadillacs (outside of Escalade) had any success they'd still be here, GM top brass isn't going to just cut profitable, well selling products. We'll see what $100k Cadillac comes next, but they haven't had a good track record. And sure I will compare a Maybach GLS (which goes up to $190k) to an Escalade, because you said Mercedes wishes they had an Escalade competitor, when in reality they have an SUV that costs up to double the price of an Escalade, and sells better globally than the Escalade. All these SUVs cost more than an Escalade: Mercedes GLS, Mercedes G-class, BMW X7 (BMW X8 coming soon), Audi SQ8/RS Q8, Lamborghini Urus, Porsche Cayenne, Bentley Bentayga, Rolls-Royce Cullinan, Aston Martin DBX, Maserati Levante, Tesla Model X, Range Rover. That's over a dozen SUVs on market that are positioned above the Escalade and Bentley is working on another, Ferrari working on one as well. Cadillac's problem is they see the Escalade as the top, when it should be more the mid point and clearly they can go above it, because the market is flooded with SUVs costing 2-3 times more than the Escalade.

"Positioned to be". ? The Cadillac brand is 110 years old, they aren't positioned yet? What are XT4, XT5, XT6? Front drive turbo 4 or V6 crossovers, same as Acura RDX, Lexus RX350 and Acura MDX. Those are the top 3 selling Cadillacs too. Why aren't those SUVs rear drive with handling and V8s or hybrid turbo V6? Also the CT5 is Cadillac's top sedan and it starts at $36k, that is Acura TLX pricing for a midsize sedan, I suppose you could compare it to an Infiniti Q60 also for the same drive wheels to be more accurate. But Cadillac doesn't have any high end sedans/coupes/convertibles like all the other big luxury makers do, nothing in the $100k+ range like Tesla, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc. Mercedes makes 2 SUVs that are better than the 2021 Escalade, the G-wagon is more luxurious and far superior off road, and the GLS is faster, higher performance in GLS580 or AMG trims and way more luxurious in Maybach trim. The 2021 Escalade starts at $76,195 and the Maybach GLS600 starts at $160,500. Where is the $160,000 Cadillac?

Alfa Romeo is really exclusive, exclusive isn't a good thing necessarily. I am curious what Cadillac, Mercedes and others come up with as Tesla fighters. But traditional auto makers tend to want to make EV's look futuristic and funky, and then they don't sell because they don't look like a regular car (Nissan Leaf for example). And I think they'll be behind on power and range, as we have seen with the Taycan and even the EQS the rumor is 460 hp in the base model, but a base model Tesla Model S has 670 hp.

Bentley is exclusive, Cadillac isn’t. Coupes are slow sellers, I can understand not making one although if there were to be a halo sports car I think it would help the cause. Yes produced by GM powertrain just like they have global platforms as all car companies do, but their isn’t enough space between Chevy, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. Too much price overlap too much powertrain and equipment overlap, etc. The fact that GM would consider calling a Tesla fighter SUV a Corvette tells me what their confidence in the Cadilllac brand name is.