smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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The CT5 is exactly the same size as the E-class, but it starts $20,000 cheaper. The Hyundai Sonata and CT5 are also the same size and are only $10,000 different in starting price. Unless the Sonata is a CT5 competitor, then the CT5 is not an E-class competitor. And that is correct on the soft close doors it is only on E53/E63, I thought the E450 offered it. Why do cars differ from SUVs? SUVs are the majority of sales? If I wanted a performance SUV (which I don't since I don't like SUVs) then Cadillac has no option. And 80% of Cadillac sales are SUVs. Also offering a FWD product doesn't have any effect on the rear drive products, unless they replace rear drive with front drive. The CLA was an added model, the C/E/S-classes are all still there and all still rear drive as always, nothing changed. Corvette sells the Spark and Sonic in the same showroom as the Corvette, but that doesn't mean the Corvette isn't a performance car. Now if they made the Corvette front drive, or if Mercedes made the E-class front drive, then that is a problem and I would have issue with that. Fair comparison to pit a $65k CLA45 against a $65k CT4 V-Blackwing and see who wins on a track. The CLA45 on VIR ran a 2.58.2 and the most recent CTS-V ran a 2.56.8 so that little FWD based Mercedes is only 1.4 seconds a lap down to the fastest Cadillac ever. And the CLA is faster than the ATS-V was around that track. Thus my point that the CLA is the CT4 competitor, C-class is the CT5 competitor.
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The CLA45 is faster around Virginia International Raceway than the CT4-V, CT5-V, Jaguar F-Type R, Alfa Romeo Gulia Quadrafolio and 718 Cayman S. And 81,000 of the 129,000 vehicles Cadillac sold last year were front drive based.
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The CT5 is a C-Class competitor with C63 S level performance but it is priced higher than that. As far as soft close doors go, they are part of a $3650 option package on the Escalade Premium Luxury trim, or included on Platinum, and not even offered on any other Cadillac. Mercedes does most options as al a carte so you aren’t forced in to big option packages to get stuff you don’t want.
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I saw a news article on motor1 that said it was like $125k loaded, that is why I wondered what the options were. Carbon brakes are probably $9k but where is the other $30k going? Also why do you have to get level 3 to get the tan seats? Why can't you pick seat color separate of trim level or option package?
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The CT5 Blackwing options list is $40k long because you can run one for these to $125k which seems like a lot.
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2008 Maybach 57: $340,500 2008 Maybach 62: $431,000 2008 Maybach 62S Landaulet: $1,350,000 2008 Rolls-Royce Phantom: $403,000 2005 Rolls-Royce Phantom: $328,750 2005 Maybach 57: $325,000 2005 Maybach 62: $375,000 saabkyle04 on YouTube reviewed a 2011 Maybach 62S with a $519,000 sticker. Maybach competed directly with Rolls-Royce, and had more powerful, faster cars. There just isn't enough market in $500k sedans to put money there. Rolls-Royce averages about 4,000 cars a year globally, their best year was 5,000 in 2019. I think Mercedes can let them have their $5k sales and put resources elsewhere.
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You get more size and more horsepower, but the Germans build good cars, and you can get an ultra reliable Lexus ES350 for CT5 money and to some reliability is all they care about. Lots of options in this segment. I saw on Autoline Cadillac got 1,000 reservations for these 2 cars so they are generating some demand out of the gate. But I suspect a lot of dealers want one in to get markup on the first ones and a year from now demand will drop.
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You can get leather on a C300 for $47,695, you have about $6k of options to work with, that can be one of them. Although MB-Tex might be the most durable material on the planet. I agree with Cadillac’s strategy, V6 power and E-class size for 4-cylinder C-class money. But the C-Class I am sure easily outsells the CT5. As do 3-series and Tesla Model 3, all same price point. So it must not be that easy for consumers to buy a Cadillac.
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Rolls-Royce is out of Mercedes league. Maybach trim cars are meant to bridge the gap between a $115k GLS or S-class and a $350,000 Ghost or $500k Phantom. There was like a $150k price gap between the old S600 and a Ghost with only the Bentley Flying Spur sitting there, easiest decision ever to go into a segment with only 1 competitor.
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So GM made a car as luxurious as an E63 or M5 but decided to sell it at a $40k discount just because they are nice guys? They would be idiots to leave money on the table and the one thing GM excels at is bean counting.
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CT5-V Blackwing interior is on par with an A4 or 3-series, or an Acura/Lincoln product. Cadillac interiors look like a fancier Chevy in the way Acura interiors look like a fancier Honda, nothing special.
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The CT5 interior is entry-lux, much like a CLA or Acura TLX. CT5 isn’t an E-class competitor. And I am not saying Cadillac needs an E or S class competitor, sedan sales are shrinking and make more sense to make a mid-size $37k sedan like a Lexus ES or Acura TLX and go where you can get more volume and have $400 a month lease deals.
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The CT5-V and the Sonata have the same dimensions, doesn't mean they are competitors. Because, price point. Cadillac has no E-class competitor, neither do Acura or Infiniti or Lexus since killing the GS, although the LS500 is S-class size for E450 money, so maybe that competes. CT5 is nicer than a Charger, Dodge interiors are terrible, but my point was just because something has horsepower and size of an M5, doesn't mean it competes with an M5.
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Mercedes website said 3,900 for C63 S so that is where I got that.
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Since the CT5 is really a C-class competitor, the C63 is 3,900 lbs, thus the CT5-V doesn't have a weight advantage. I don't see CT5 as an E6/M5 competitor any more than I see a Hellcat Charger as an E63/M5 competitor, because the E63/M5 are like $30k more and far more luxurious than those other cars.
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The V6 CT5-V is 4144 lbs but that has AWD, maybe the Blackwing is about the same. The regular M5 is still lighter than an RS6 or E63 or Panamera, but all those cars are still fast, depends on how good grip, suspension, brakes and aero are when it comes to the track times. I don't t think the weight matters that much, although less weight is one less obstacle to overcome. Pretty much every BMW engine is under rated, that is why you have to compare to their performance numbers, not their horsepower number.
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The M5 has AWD and can actually use that 627 hp plus that car is under rated, Car and Driver dyne tested it and got 617 horsepower and 606 lb-ft of torque at the wheels, so that engine probably makes 700 hp at the crank. The M5 is a full second quicker 0-60, and a CT5-V is 200 lbs less than an M5, that V8 Blackwing will probably make that weight pretty close. There is also the M5 CS that drops like 200 lbs of weight.
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The 3-series is all wheel drive, the Supra is not, so that is probably the difference, better grip off the line. CT5 dimensions: 194″ L x 74″ W x 57″ H BMW 5-Series: 196″ L x 74″ W x 58″ H Mercedes E450: 194″ L x 73″ W x 58″ H (The E63 is 196" L, 75" W due to wings and wider fenders) Cadillac's strategy is 5-series size at less than 3-series prices, which is probably the right strategy. CT4 is slightly bigger than an A3/2-series/A-class but price is pretty similar throughout the line, CT4-Blackwing is priced similar to CLA45 or RS3 and CT4-V pretty close to CLA35. The ATS-V did Car & Driver's lightning lap at VIR in 2:59.7 and the 2021 CLA45 in 2:58.2. CT4 Blackwing might be 2 seconds a lap better than ATS-V, but the CT4 Blackwing is heavier and has the same engine. The CT4-V ran a 3:06.2 and CT5-V a 3:04.1 for comparison. And the CLA45 beat the Supra 3.0 and the 575 hp Jaguar F-Type R, so I wouldn't could it out against a CT4 Blackwing, it would be close. The Sonata, CT5 and E-class all have the same dimensions. Pretty big price spread.
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Car and Driver clocked a 2019 340i at 3.8 seconds as the Toyota Supra at 3.7 seconds with the same engine/transmission. C/D also had an M5 Competition at 2.6 and there is an M5 Comp CS that cuts 230 lbs more weight. I don’t think CT5 competes with M5 or E63 because CT5 is a C-class competitor. CT4 Blackwing compares more to the CLA45 and RS3, you throw BMW M2 in there but it is 2 door, they are all pretty close performance wise depending on which metric you want to rank.
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The CT5 is more of a C-class competitor, a base CT5 is $20k cheaper than an E-class so I wouldn’t really say those are rivals. A Camry or Accord have dimensions like an E-class, but aren’t competitors. The CT5 Blackwing has a 3.7 0-60, in a straight line even an Audi RS3 will beat it, let alone an M5 Competition that does it in 2.6 seconds. Maybe on a track the Blackwing can make up time in corners. Cadillac should get that car on the Nurburgring and see if they beat the Germans. As far as the Model S goes, it starts at $79k and is more powerful and faster than a CT5 Blackwing and they are similar size. That’s why I thought Cadillac should price it like a Model S, but since Cadillac is low volume on this the price doesn’t really matter if they are only looking to sell 250-500 a year for the next 3-4 years.
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The Mach-E is about the size of an Escape, and the Escape and gas Mustang start in the mid $20s. You can easily argue the Mach-E is better than an Escape or Mustang but is it $15-20k better? EV’s still need to get cheaper, and that will happen I am sure, but for short term it is still a big ask to get volume on something like a Mach-E. Also I was just reading an article on how investors are seeing revenue for ICE car sales as worthless in their valuation of a company and may soon even see ICE as a negative. Timing the big EV change over right will be what determines winners and losers.
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Georgio can be the platform, it would weigh less and they’d use a turbo 4, maybe a mild hybrid in the 2020s as the bridge to EV. And a turbo V6 would replace the Hemi, so they’d gain on emissions there. As for V-series, I don’t know who they are attracting in, the German cars are faster and Acura/Lexus people don’t care about performance.
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True, I misunderstood and thought you meant Camaro wouldn't go away. Mustang would gain the most if/when the Camaro dies. I would assume the Challenger has an older buyer base than either, and the Charger/Challenger have a lot of fleet reliance. The problem with all these sports coupes is the market keeps shrinking, the sports sedan is like the new sports coupe. And the crossover replaced what was the "sports sedan" of 20 years ago.
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The Challenger can't have much time left given how old the platform is and CAFE and emissions are issues. They could do a Georgio platform car, or make an EV I guess. Depends on what Stellantis sees as the future. Mustang will always be around, but I suspect the Mach-E will be outselling the traditional gas coupe within a few years. Mustang has that low start price and convertible they push on rental fleets in Florida. Camaro I think is a question mark because there are already rumors that 2023/2024 will be the end of the Camaro. And these Blackwings are the last new gas V-series Cadillacs. Although very possible that when all this stuff goes EV, that there is a Camaro EV in the 2025-2030 time frame, but coupe sales are pretty low, Chevy would be better served with an EV sedan at a more affordable price point.
