smk4565

GM wants electric cars because that is what investors like. Tesla is worth $800 billion and GM is worth $70 billion. GM (and every car company) wants investor money and want to look like a tech company like Apple or Google. I think EV's will replace V12, V10, V8 most quickly because high power vehicles are expensive, probably V6 gets phased out in like 10 years. But if you look at what they are proposing and with what EV's cost, I don't see a a small-mid size EV crossover with say 250 hp, 250 mile range going on sale for $25,000 any time soon. And those $300k Camry's and 400k Rav4 sales in the $25k range aren't going to be replaced by $50k electric SUVs with $1,000 monthly payments.

Young people don't buy any new cars at all because even a Sentra or Corolla is like $25k. Cars have go to a price point where basically retirees or empty nesters can afford new ones. The other problem with their ad is they talk of the "electric future" when Tesla can sell you an EV today.

All GLS's can tow 7,700 lbs (if you get the optional class IV hitch which is like $500 or something). And the Maybach GLS seats 4. And you are right, it isn't comparable to an Escalade. Escalade buyers have to drive themselves, Maybach owners pay someone to drive for them. We'll see what the final Celestiq is in final version and what they price it at. The Mercedes EQS has a larger screen than the Celestiq has, but I think these huge screens are gimmicks, and screens are basically cheap. They could put a 36 inch touch screen in a Kia Forte and probably only raise the cost of the car by $500. So everyone will have screens, what isn't cheap is actual leather, wood, metal, suspension systems, powertrains, etc.

But they built them. They have always had high performance cars going back to 1902. That is why Mercedes is the best luxury brand, they have a reasonably priced A220 or GLB250 and they have $225k S-classes and $300k AMG sports cars and they have every body style, sedan, coupe convertible, wagon, hatchback, crossover coupe, SUV, 4-door coupe, etc.

S-class coupe/convertible going away because they have a new AMG designed SL taking over that whole upper end segment. The GT coupe/convertible are staying for the next generation. And the market for $150k convertibles is small. CLS is going to die and maybe AMG GT 4-door because they have the EQE and EQS, so 2 sedans die, 2 new sedans take their place. Nothing confirmed on the C and E coupe/convertible. I suspect they keep one or the other, they won't kill both. There was also rumor of merging them into a CLK type car that would be a coupe/convertible in that middle range which would make sense, because they have to have a 2-door option that isn't a $100k car like the SL.

G-wagon is hand built, that is they they farm it out. They can't run it down their line in Stuttgart. And the S-class is really their flagship car, it has all their best tech and they just built the most advanced car factory in the world to build it. And the S-class goes to the highest price aside from the Black Series cars or AMG One that are specialty projects. Escalade-V, CT4, CT5 Blackwing is all good, but I think they can do more. The CT5 Blackwing will have 650 hp, but it will still have an interior out of a $40k car. And the other problem I think the CT5 Blackwing will run into is it will probably be $80-90k, a base Tesla Model S has 670 hp and will be faster without even going to the Plaid. They need a more luxurious sedan than the CT5. Maybe they will hit a home run with Celestiq and solve that problem, too early to tell on that. And where are XT4, XT5, XT6 V-series? Unless they are just putting all R&D into a future line of electric SUVs and plan to kill those 3 off by 2025 and don't want to waste money on them, in which case I'd agree with their strategy.

Mercedes built the fastest car in the world for the 1900-1909 decade, they had the ultra lux 540k roadster driven by royalty in the 30's, the 770k limos used by the Nazis, the 1954 300SL, the 600 Grosser which cost double a Rolls-Royce in 1963, the 450SEL 6.9 in the 1970s (the most powerful, fastest sedan at the time) the V12 W140 in the 90s, the 604 hp S65 in the early 2000s when a Corvette ZO6 had 405 hp. Mercedes has long had performance cars, they took place in the first automobile race in 1894, they set the land speed record in 1904 at 97 mph and again in 1911 at 141 mph. They have 125 years of racing history, no brand can say that. As far as competing with Tesla, I think Mercedes will have a hard time. I think Mercedes can outdo Tesla on interiors and build quality all day long, but will be tough to beat Tesla on range and performance and possibly technology and self driving. Mercedes has some advantages like manufacturing capacity, but they are starting from well behind as far as EV's go.

The G-wagen sells well, probably the #1 selling vehicle in the world with a starting price over $125k. The CT6-V was the same price as a base V6 S-class and they killed it off because Cadillac was still not competitive in the segment. Just like the XLR, STS-V, ELR bombed. If any of these top end Cadillacs (outside of Escalade) had any success they'd still be here, GM top brass isn't going to just cut profitable, well selling products. We'll see what $100k Cadillac comes next, but they haven't had a good track record. And sure I will compare a Maybach GLS (which goes up to $190k) to an Escalade, because you said Mercedes wishes they had an Escalade competitor, when in reality they have an SUV that costs up to double the price of an Escalade, and sells better globally than the Escalade. All these SUVs cost more than an Escalade: Mercedes GLS, Mercedes G-class, BMW X7 (BMW X8 coming soon), Audi SQ8/RS Q8, Lamborghini Urus, Porsche Cayenne, Bentley Bentayga, Rolls-Royce Cullinan, Aston Martin DBX, Maserati Levante, Tesla Model X, Range Rover. That's over a dozen SUVs on market that are positioned above the Escalade and Bentley is working on another, Ferrari working on one as well. Cadillac's problem is they see the Escalade as the top, when it should be more the mid point and clearly they can go above it, because the market is flooded with SUVs costing 2-3 times more than the Escalade.

"Positioned to be". ? The Cadillac brand is 110 years old, they aren't positioned yet? What are XT4, XT5, XT6? Front drive turbo 4 or V6 crossovers, same as Acura RDX, Lexus RX350 and Acura MDX. Those are the top 3 selling Cadillacs too. Why aren't those SUVs rear drive with handling and V8s or hybrid turbo V6? Also the CT5 is Cadillac's top sedan and it starts at $36k, that is Acura TLX pricing for a midsize sedan, I suppose you could compare it to an Infiniti Q60 also for the same drive wheels to be more accurate. But Cadillac doesn't have any high end sedans/coupes/convertibles like all the other big luxury makers do, nothing in the $100k+ range like Tesla, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, etc. Mercedes makes 2 SUVs that are better than the 2021 Escalade, the G-wagon is more luxurious and far superior off road, and the GLS is faster, higher performance in GLS580 or AMG trims and way more luxurious in Maybach trim. The 2021 Escalade starts at $76,195 and the Maybach GLS600 starts at $160,500. Where is the $160,000 Cadillac?

Alfa Romeo is really exclusive, exclusive isn't a good thing necessarily. I am curious what Cadillac, Mercedes and others come up with as Tesla fighters. But traditional auto makers tend to want to make EV's look futuristic and funky, and then they don't sell because they don't look like a regular car (Nissan Leaf for example). And I think they'll be behind on power and range, as we have seen with the Taycan and even the EQS the rumor is 460 hp in the base model, but a base model Tesla Model S has 670 hp.

Bentley is exclusive, Cadillac isn’t. Coupes are slow sellers, I can understand not making one although if there were to be a halo sports car I think it would help the cause. Yes produced by GM powertrain just like they have global platforms as all car companies do, but their isn’t enough space between Chevy, Buick, GMC and Cadillac. Too much price overlap too much powertrain and equipment overlap, etc. The fact that GM would consider calling a Tesla fighter SUV a Corvette tells me what their confidence in the Cadilllac brand name is.

CT5 interior is fine for a $36k start price, no complaints there, CTS interior wasn’t up to par for a $46k start price. The XT6 interior is about the same as a Kia Telluride, the XT6 is overpriced for what it is. Problem is Cadillac isn’t a premium boutique brand, they are the American Acura. They aren’t the American Bentley as they should aim to be.

They don’t need to carry the corporation but a luxury brand with no coupe, no convertible? They have 4 SUVs that could be enough but BMW has 7 with an 8th on the way. And where is the performance SUV? The top powertrain in an XT4 is 235 hp, you can get more than that in a Ford Escape. I am not saying Cadillac needs 15 models but how about 7-8? How about V-series on everything or a “Brougham” trim for a higher trim interior like how GMC has Denali and Buick has Avenir. And if Cadillac is only going to do 6 models they should be outstanding, 4 of the 6 are basically re-imagined Chevy SUVs with Chevrolet powertrains.

The Z06 will probably run like 7:04 (assuming 10 seconds better than the C7) and we'll see what the Zora does. Mercedes holds the Nurburgring record right now, they'll hold it for sure once the AMG One set a lap time this year. The Corvette is going to beat them, and I know Cadillac will never build a car faster than a Corvette. Cadillac has 2 V-series cars, which right now are both under 400 hp, and the "Blackwings" are limited to like 250 each of the CT4 and CT5 or something, so they must not expect much demand. CTS-V was a fast car, but the M5 and E63 were faster, and Mercedes has cars faster than the E63. Mercedes has over 15 cars with 500 hp. Cadillac isn't committed to performance because only 2 of their 6 models have performance variants and they are the 2 slowest sellers they have. Why doesn't Cadillac make a coupe, a convertible, a performance SUV? They don't even have a full line of cars, yet alone a full line of performance cars. There should have been an Escalade-V 10 years ago, and they should make a V-series of every electric car they sell. Also Cadillac interiors need to get better, they dropped the price by about $10k going from CTS to CT5, that helps align the interior with the price you pay. But Cadillac has often fell on their face with interiors on the more expensive cars, even going back the the XLR.

This is sort of a disappearing market, but it is nice that there are still big rear drive V8 sedans out there.

But the Model S is a sedan, my point is Tesla's CT5 sized sedan can put up performance times like a Corvette on a track, any sedan running sub 7:30 on the Nurburgring is insane because the Tesla, Panamera and AMG GT 4-door are the only 3 that can do it. And Tesla has a sports car coming but we can't compare it and C8 Zora because we don't know what they'll actually be. The Corvette (C8 and C7 Z06, ZR1) Nurburgring times are just in a sea of other super cars, as I said there are several in the 6:40's on sale now and dozens in the low 7's with the Corvette. There might be 25 coupes running sub 7:30 Nurburgring, but 2-door cars are 1% of global volume. SUV is where the volume is, the people that can make performance SUVs and performance sedan to some degree are going to get the sales because that is where the bulk of the market is. As far as performance minded products go, whoever is first to make a crossover with RAV4 size, performance, quality and price that is electric will sell them like hot cakes. Cadillac competing with Germans is a false myth, all those V-series cars were often slower than the German counterpart, and Cadillac had 2-3 V-series cars at a time at most, where were the V-series SUVs? Where was the V12 sedan to compete with the 760Li and S65? And that turned out to be a bad direction for Cadillac as a brand to go anyway, because Cadillac buyers want something like the Escalade, a big, comfy seat, comfy ride vehicle for cruising down highways, not a small interior corner carver like a 3-series. So Cadillac lost customers because they built a German knock off instead of building a better version of "American luxury." I actually think Cadillac is beyond saving, baring a massive amount of investment (say $100 billion of over 10 years) and GM won't invest that much in them.

Unofficial times of times of the Model S Plaid at 7:13, so if that holds it will be faster than the C8 Z51 by a lot, and on par with the C7 Z06. I'd imagine a C8 Z06 with enough track focused upgrades will beat 7:13. But is Cadillac going to make a sedan that can do a track times of a C8 Z06 to top where Tesla is at? Tesla is throwing down some pretty big performance numbers, and that is with sedans and SUVs what other car company is going to make SUVs (the most popular body style) that has performance of top level sports cars. Really only AMG is making an consistent attempt across the line, VW group with the Urus and RS Q8 and BMW has X3 and X5 M's but no X7 M. Cadillac I think is selling less cars now than they were in 2005, so that attempt to take on the Germans was a bust. I have driven the first 2 generation CTS's and the final generation STS but I haven't driven a Cadillac is about 8 years since I bought my car. I've sat in them at auto shows, the interiors are sub par and Cadillac gives me no reason to even waste time test driving one.

There are tons of sports cars, super cars, hyper cars, track cars, etc on sale now with loads of capability. This is a narrow niche of buyers, yet there are probably dozens of options. I feel like there is more choice than there is buyer pool, as 2 door cars are like 1% of sales. Also the Z51 Stingray has a 7:30 Nurburgring time, there are several cars running in the 6:40's, so the higher power Vettes have a lot of ground to make up. Enthusiasts have plenty to pick from, they don't have to wait for a Z06 or Zora, there is fast stuff for sale right now.

Exhaust note is part of the appeal, but even AMG knows their longer term future is electric and their short term future is hybrids. I expect the Model S Plaid will be faster around the Nurburgring than the C8, the Panamera and AMG GT already are faster than the C8, and the Model S Plaid should be faster than a Panamera. Now the Z06 may beat if, it they get enough grip, power and aero working the right way and that would be a more fair comparison as far as price goes. Agreed that Tesla has quality issues, but they keep selling. And I expect Tesla quality will improve over time, just as their capacity improves over time. Someone may teach Tesla about quality, but I don't know if Cadillac is going to be that brand. I suspect Cadillac trying to take on Tesla will be more of a struggle than when Cadillac tried to take on the Germans the past 15 years and that basically went no where.

Car companies design cars (and powertrains) for world use though, some of these car companies are operating in over 100 countries, so they have to take into account a global view. Granted, they might be able to sell a V8 model of something in the USA where gas is cheap, and the same car with a turbo 4 in China where these is displacement tax. The Corvette is fast, but a Model S Performance can do 0-60 in 2.4 seconds and get 104 mpg-equivalent. And it is a full size sedan, and there is a higher performance model coming later this year. The V8 or even V12 can't win a performance argument anymore. You can argue V8's are relatively cheap, and have a good performance per dollar attribute, that is the biggest thing V8's have going for them while EV's are still expensive.

I think gas engines will be around 15 years at least. But Europe has stricter emissions standards than the USA, and a lot of countries may also ban sale of ICE cars as early as 2030. So it is only a matter of time, whether it be 2030 or 2040, electric will eventually take over. I also think electric will take over from top down, because the performance of electric will be so much more than gasoline. The only reason to buy ICE will become cost, on stuff like an Elantra or Corolla, where you can get the car cheap.

Tesla is going to have 1,100+ horsepower this year. Don't have to wait until 2025-2026. What they could do with the C8 s try to cut weight, it would drive up cost, but they could make higher ends more track focused and push the handling and braking capabilities rather than straight line speed. Mercedes is my favorite brand, 7 consecutive Formula 1 championships too. But Tesla is the brand everyone is chasing.

Right, Ford could do lots of things, they will need an EV cheaper than the Mach-E that can start under $30k at some point. And they can do mid-size and larger SUVs that aren't performance oriented. I get that most of the market is not about performance cars, that is why the Rav4/Camry are top sellers in the 2 biggest segments. So Ford can look at more practical EV's that aren't just about performance. But when you use the Mustang name, you position the Mach-E as your top performance EV, now maybe they have a faster version coming, like a Mustang Mach-E Cobra R or Shelby GT, only time will tell. But Tesla has a 1,100 hp car going on sale this year, so we are entering a world where the Hellcat V8 is weak and obsolete as far as performance goes. Companies are going to have to hop on board the EV train for performance cars in a hurry.

Tesla is probably the coolest, most desired, or hottest brand name in cars. Tesla is the "it" brand. They don't even advertise and yet everyone talks about them. That's what I am comparing, no brand name carries the impact of the Tesla brand name.

The Camaro V8 couldn't pass Euro emissions, I think the Corvette was reworked to pass it, but yes, it will only get tougher or ICE powertrains could just be banned in 2035. It is nice to let the V8 run out it's life cycle, but that isn't the future, so it isn't where companies will put their engineering dollars. But I think they can make an electric Corvette that is faster than the V8 Corvette, so I don't see losing the V8 as anything that hurts. It is just evolution, most family sedans had a 3-3.8 liter V6 15 years ago, now most have a 2 liter 4-cylinder and are faster. It's just progress.