smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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The CT5 interior is entry-lux, much like a CLA or Acura TLX. CT5 isn’t an E-class competitor. And I am not saying Cadillac needs an E or S class competitor, sedan sales are shrinking and make more sense to make a mid-size $37k sedan like a Lexus ES or Acura TLX and go where you can get more volume and have $400 a month lease deals.
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The CT5-V and the Sonata have the same dimensions, doesn't mean they are competitors. Because, price point. Cadillac has no E-class competitor, neither do Acura or Infiniti or Lexus since killing the GS, although the LS500 is S-class size for E450 money, so maybe that competes. CT5 is nicer than a Charger, Dodge interiors are terrible, but my point was just because something has horsepower and size of an M5, doesn't mean it competes with an M5.
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Mercedes website said 3,900 for C63 S so that is where I got that.
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Since the CT5 is really a C-class competitor, the C63 is 3,900 lbs, thus the CT5-V doesn't have a weight advantage. I don't see CT5 as an E6/M5 competitor any more than I see a Hellcat Charger as an E63/M5 competitor, because the E63/M5 are like $30k more and far more luxurious than those other cars.
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The V6 CT5-V is 4144 lbs but that has AWD, maybe the Blackwing is about the same. The regular M5 is still lighter than an RS6 or E63 or Panamera, but all those cars are still fast, depends on how good grip, suspension, brakes and aero are when it comes to the track times. I don't t think the weight matters that much, although less weight is one less obstacle to overcome. Pretty much every BMW engine is under rated, that is why you have to compare to their performance numbers, not their horsepower number.
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The M5 has AWD and can actually use that 627 hp plus that car is under rated, Car and Driver dyne tested it and got 617 horsepower and 606 lb-ft of torque at the wheels, so that engine probably makes 700 hp at the crank. The M5 is a full second quicker 0-60, and a CT5-V is 200 lbs less than an M5, that V8 Blackwing will probably make that weight pretty close. There is also the M5 CS that drops like 200 lbs of weight.
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The 3-series is all wheel drive, the Supra is not, so that is probably the difference, better grip off the line. CT5 dimensions: 194″ L x 74″ W x 57″ H BMW 5-Series: 196″ L x 74″ W x 58″ H Mercedes E450: 194″ L x 73″ W x 58″ H (The E63 is 196" L, 75" W due to wings and wider fenders) Cadillac's strategy is 5-series size at less than 3-series prices, which is probably the right strategy. CT4 is slightly bigger than an A3/2-series/A-class but price is pretty similar throughout the line, CT4-Blackwing is priced similar to CLA45 or RS3 and CT4-V pretty close to CLA35. The ATS-V did Car & Driver's lightning lap at VIR in 2:59.7 and the 2021 CLA45 in 2:58.2. CT4 Blackwing might be 2 seconds a lap better than ATS-V, but the CT4 Blackwing is heavier and has the same engine. The CT4-V ran a 3:06.2 and CT5-V a 3:04.1 for comparison. And the CLA45 beat the Supra 3.0 and the 575 hp Jaguar F-Type R, so I wouldn't could it out against a CT4 Blackwing, it would be close. The Sonata, CT5 and E-class all have the same dimensions. Pretty big price spread.
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Car and Driver clocked a 2019 340i at 3.8 seconds as the Toyota Supra at 3.7 seconds with the same engine/transmission. C/D also had an M5 Competition at 2.6 and there is an M5 Comp CS that cuts 230 lbs more weight. I don’t think CT5 competes with M5 or E63 because CT5 is a C-class competitor. CT4 Blackwing compares more to the CLA45 and RS3, you throw BMW M2 in there but it is 2 door, they are all pretty close performance wise depending on which metric you want to rank.
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The CT5 is more of a C-class competitor, a base CT5 is $20k cheaper than an E-class so I wouldn’t really say those are rivals. A Camry or Accord have dimensions like an E-class, but aren’t competitors. The CT5 Blackwing has a 3.7 0-60, in a straight line even an Audi RS3 will beat it, let alone an M5 Competition that does it in 2.6 seconds. Maybe on a track the Blackwing can make up time in corners. Cadillac should get that car on the Nurburgring and see if they beat the Germans. As far as the Model S goes, it starts at $79k and is more powerful and faster than a CT5 Blackwing and they are similar size. That’s why I thought Cadillac should price it like a Model S, but since Cadillac is low volume on this the price doesn’t really matter if they are only looking to sell 250-500 a year for the next 3-4 years.
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The Mach-E is about the size of an Escape, and the Escape and gas Mustang start in the mid $20s. You can easily argue the Mach-E is better than an Escape or Mustang but is it $15-20k better? EV’s still need to get cheaper, and that will happen I am sure, but for short term it is still a big ask to get volume on something like a Mach-E. Also I was just reading an article on how investors are seeing revenue for ICE car sales as worthless in their valuation of a company and may soon even see ICE as a negative. Timing the big EV change over right will be what determines winners and losers.
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Georgio can be the platform, it would weigh less and they’d use a turbo 4, maybe a mild hybrid in the 2020s as the bridge to EV. And a turbo V6 would replace the Hemi, so they’d gain on emissions there. As for V-series, I don’t know who they are attracting in, the German cars are faster and Acura/Lexus people don’t care about performance.
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True, I misunderstood and thought you meant Camaro wouldn't go away. Mustang would gain the most if/when the Camaro dies. I would assume the Challenger has an older buyer base than either, and the Charger/Challenger have a lot of fleet reliance. The problem with all these sports coupes is the market keeps shrinking, the sports sedan is like the new sports coupe. And the crossover replaced what was the "sports sedan" of 20 years ago.
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The Challenger can't have much time left given how old the platform is and CAFE and emissions are issues. They could do a Georgio platform car, or make an EV I guess. Depends on what Stellantis sees as the future. Mustang will always be around, but I suspect the Mach-E will be outselling the traditional gas coupe within a few years. Mustang has that low start price and convertible they push on rental fleets in Florida. Camaro I think is a question mark because there are already rumors that 2023/2024 will be the end of the Camaro. And these Blackwings are the last new gas V-series Cadillacs. Although very possible that when all this stuff goes EV, that there is a Camaro EV in the 2025-2030 time frame, but coupe sales are pretty low, Chevy would be better served with an EV sedan at a more affordable price point.
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A BMW 340i has the same 0-60 time as the CT4-V Blackwing, not even an M3, just a 340i. And the Audi RS3 has a 3.5 second 0-60 time, faster than either Blackwing, M5 Competition does 0-60 in 2.6 seconds, etc. AMG holds the Nurburgring record for 2 door car, 4 door car, and station wagon, and 3rd place for SUV, so I think AMG can handle a Blackwing on a track. But that being said, if you liked the ATS-V and CTS-V then I imagine you would like these because it is basically the same powertrains and performance. Or if you wanted a 4-door Camaro ZL1 with a better interior, the CT5 Blackwing fits the bill. GM performance fans will buy these up, and I suspect as the Camaro sort of fades away (declining coupe sales), these 2 will pick up some of that market. I think the pricing is pretty spot on for the CT4-V, the CLA45, RS3 and 340i are all 56k, with equal options they all probably line up in price pretty close and you have some good comparisons in there. The CT5 Blackwing I think they should have priced at $79,900 to match the Tesla Model S, but they sold out their first run so I guess no need to. And given the lower volumes on these, they can probably get people to pay that ask price and not run the risk of getting too big a supply on dealer lots.
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Rumor is it looks like an airplane yoke because they are getting ready for the Roadster which can “fly for a little bit” according to Elon. And the thought is a pull back could activate the take off. But otherwise the no stalks thing I think is dumb.
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We don’t know that Cadillac is profitable since GM doesn’t split out brand financials but I am sure they are. What Musk is banking on is getting to wheeler instead of selling a Model 3 for $50k and making no profit, getting that car to be a robo taxi and have it generate an income stream, and record all the data like how Google tracks web traffic and monetize that data. Then that Model 3 might generate $100k of revenue and he is now making $50k profit per car and he still owns the car until he takes it out of commission and recycles it into a new car and repeats the process.
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More expensive than Tesla isn’t really a good strategy unless the car is amazing. And Mercedes and Porsche will be there too before the Celestiq, and you still have gas powered competition too. Autopilot doesn’t need mapped roads like Super Cruise does and I think the 2022 S-class is the only level 3 autonomy car available this year although Elon claims the Model S will be. Although I don’t think the differences in self driving systems will sway buyers to one brand or another. It is about the race to level 5 autonomy so Tesla can sell rides in a robot taxi and have a car generate 5-10 years of revenue rather than a 1 time sale.
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generation e Generation E - Are you willing to join the future?
smk4565 replied to G. David Felt's topic in General Motors
For sure companies will have huge economies of scale by have 2-3 differ sized electric motors and then they can decide how many motors to put on a vehicle. That part is cheap and will simplify things greatly. What isn’t cheap is the batteries. -
Cadillac should be able to beat Tesla on interior. But Tesla does have horsepower, range and self driving technology advantages over everyone. So Porsche, Mercedes, Cadillac or anyone else need to change the narrative and beat Tesla at something else. Worldwide Tesla outsells Cadillac, and Cadillac had a 100 year head start on them. I don’t think Cadillac is going to put the Lyriq and Celestiq on sale and magically catch Tesla. It will take more than that.
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generation e Generation E - Are you willing to join the future?
smk4565 replied to G. David Felt's topic in General Motors
Right that is why I think 4-cylinder gas cars will be here a good while because you can't get an EV under $35k with current battery prices. Just like you can't get a V8 powered car for $30k, most V8 powered vehicles are like $50k and up now. EV's will take over that $50k and up market first. -
It is, but it looks bad on the stat sheet if the other guy has a 500 mile option.
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Tesla Model S Plaid+ has 520 mile range. Which is a major problem for a 2025 model with a 300 mile range or the Taycan and its 225 mile range. I think you can always have a 350-300 mile range as a base car, but all these EV's need a 400+ mile option too.
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generation e Generation E - Are you willing to join the future?
smk4565 replied to G. David Felt's topic in General Motors
The Bolt for what it is, should be about $25k and not $40k to compete with a gas car. The Bolt is comparable to a Chevy Trailblazer. So until they can suck a ton of cost out of the Bolt, gas cars aren't going anywhere. -
GM wants electric cars because that is what investors like. Tesla is worth $800 billion and GM is worth $70 billion. GM (and every car company) wants investor money and want to look like a tech company like Apple or Google. I think EV's will replace V12, V10, V8 most quickly because high power vehicles are expensive, probably V6 gets phased out in like 10 years. But if you look at what they are proposing and with what EV's cost, I don't see a a small-mid size EV crossover with say 250 hp, 250 mile range going on sale for $25,000 any time soon. And those $300k Camry's and 400k Rav4 sales in the $25k range aren't going to be replaced by $50k electric SUVs with $1,000 monthly payments.
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generation e Generation E - Are you willing to join the future?
smk4565 replied to G. David Felt's topic in General Motors
Young people don't buy any new cars at all because even a Sentra or Corolla is like $25k. Cars have go to a price point where basically retirees or empty nesters can afford new ones. The other problem with their ad is they talk of the "electric future" when Tesla can sell you an EV today.
