smk4565

GM for sure has a weight problem with a lot of their vehicles. It's funny that an H3 pickup, G8 GXP and Hummer H4 are all a go, but a rear drive Impala that would beat any of them by 5 mpg is killed due to CAFE. The GTO had 400 hp and no one bought it, I am not yet convinced the G8 will be any kind of success. It it too similar to the Aussie version just like the GTO was.

The news was GM cancelled plans for a DOHC V8 to replace the Northstar. So either they keep the 16 year old Northstar around, which is both heavy, thirsty and not that powerful or they give up on V8s, aside from a Corvette engine in a V-series. I'm all for DI V6s and turbo V6s and turbo-diesel V6s, but they need a V8 too. Cadillac's worldwide sales are better than Saab, Hummer and probably Buick. I am not sure of Chinese sales volume of Buick vs Cadillac. If GM paid more attention to Cadillac they could grow to 500,000 units worldwide. M-B can meet CAFE standards because the Smart Four2 gets 33/41 mpg (2006 epa) and that will balance out all their V12 and AMG V8s. Plus they have diesel and a hybrid S-class coming, and no pickup trucks getting 16 mpg to counter act. BMW has Mini Cooper and diesel engines.

If Cadillac had a larger worldwide sales, a better XLR, a flagship, a midrange model, etc they could probably sell $70,000 V8 cars. Lexus sold 329,000 vehicles in the US alone last year, BMW nearly 300,000, if Cadillac could get up near that volume and 1 out of 4 had a V8 they'd use 70,000. I think canceling the Northstar replacement is a easy way out of building a true middle luxury car and an S-class fighter, and they will just focus on lower end luxury like Lincoln and Acura. The DI V6 may be close to the Northstar in power but the Northstar is old. The Lexus and M-B V8s are 380-390 hp and torque, vs 304 hp and 273 lb-ft Cadillac's V6. That is a big gap. An even bigger gap is the new BMW V8 with 408 hp and 446 lb-ft. A V6 can't compete in that class, and using something from the Silverado no matter how much tweaking is done won't work in the $55,000+ classes of cars.

Since this is V6, I would guess it would be around 18 mpg, but the H2 is 13 mpg and H3 is only about 16 mpg yet they won't cancel them because of CAFE. And I am upset that Cadillac won't get a V8 when Lexus and the Germans have them. Cadillac gets screwed over because GM has to fund Hummer, Saab and Buick that are all dying.

But Hummer only sold 55,000 units as a brand last year. Cadillac could sell 70,000 V8s, especially if they can get overseas sales going. And a V8 engine is cheaper to design than a whole car/truck. GM is whining about a 35 mpg standard hoping it will get reversed or using it as an excuse to charge more for cars or not build V8s. Cadillac will lose sales. When high gas mileage and "green" are the in things, investing in Hummer makes no sense.

Wagoner announced yesterday that the sole reason they ditched plans for a Northstar replacement was CAFE standards. But I don't see GM getting rid of Hummer that uses much more gas. Hummer sales were down 18 or 19% last year, they can keep cheapening the brand by offering low end models, but then the prestige wears off and people will not want them.

So a 19 mpg DOHC V8 for Cadillac is dead because of CAFE, but 13 mpg Hummers are full speed ahead. I love how GM puts everything into pick up trucks and SUVs and has the CTS and Malibu as their only 2 really decent sedan offerings.

If big sedans were high in demand, auto makers would update them every 5 years, not every 10-16 years like the Ford Panther platform. Buying a smaller car isn't down grading, there are a lot of small to midsize cars that are nice and much more expensive than a $23,000 Impala or $26,000 Crown Vic before rebate. Big coupes are in even less demand, I suspect the Challenger will flop because of this and high gas prices.

The CL550 is 199 inches long, aside from a Bentley/Rolls car it is the biggest coupe, but with a $105,000 base price they aren't selling many. The largest BMW coupe is smaller than the CTS, likewise with Audi or Lexus or Infiniti. Big 2 door cars are a thing of the past. The days of Rivieras, Mark VIIIs, Monte Carlos are over. The 2000-2005 Monte Carlo was longer than a BMW 750i. It isn't just in 2 door cars, people aren't buying big sedans like the Crown Vic anymore either, people gravitate toward midsize. The CTS coupe is 4 inches shorter than the sedan, that is a a good thing. Looks like a hatchback, that is a bad thing.

I said people don't want big coupes (like the Monte Carlo) that are STS size. Those coupes are smaller, a 6-series is 190 inches long, the CLK is 183 inches long, much smaller than any Cadillac. The CTS coupe is 187.4 inches long.

A 2 door STS would be like a Monte Carlo, people don't want huge coupes. I was wondering how long the CTC is and what the wheelbase is. I am hoping it is shorter than the 4 door version, it looks like it is. I hope the doors aren't super long like the Monte Carlo.

I read all the previous posts. I like the sedan a lot better, because the coupe from the side (much like a Prius) looks like a wedge of cheese. The back is too hatchback looking for me, I don't like the yellow on the interior or brakes, but I assume the production version will ditch that for conventional colors. About the CAFE thing, BMW and Mercedes don't have Hummers or pick-up trucks that get 14-16 mpg, and their volume comes from small to midsize cars that they can diesel power. GM's volume is in trucks, which hurts their CAFE position (although not as much as Chrysler). Plus Mercedes started selling Smart cars here this year, and BMW has Mini, those balance out the V10 and V12 cars they have. And if they don't meet CAFe standards, they will just pay the fine.

My main point is people can't compare a CTS to a 5-series or a CTS-V to an M5 because of feature content. I agree that if the CTS added all the stuff on my original list it would cost $60,000, which is what a 5-series costs. Then they would be more comparable. I just think Cadillac needs a car that is in the $48-65,000 range that is like the A6, 5-series, E-class and Jaguar XF. Whether that is the CTS when it gets the MCE or a totally new car, doesn't matter to me. They also need a small car that can compete performance wise with the 335i, which I know is coming, but it can't come soon enough. The CTS is still a car I'd test drive, I like the exterior look, but hate the plastic grille, the interior layout I am not a big fan of and my knee hits the console. The old CTS I thought hat a perfect driver seating position and I loved the console angled to the driver and every control was exactly where it should have been. Problem was the materials were low rent. The Jaguar XF is my current favorite car. I also just read the new Jaguar 5.0 liter V8 makes 470 hp naturally aspirated, so with the supercharger output would be as high as 600 hp, though the production car will likely be tuned down.

I 100% agree. BMW's styling isn't the best, but the materials are first rate. And that picture is the 2005 M5 interior, they have given it a slight upgrade for 2008. The C-class interior has way too much gray plastic, it one of the weakest interiors in the entry-lux class.

Nope. Even the best pushrod won't be as refined as the best DOHC engine. The Northstar is an average DOHC engine at this point and is still more refined than any GM pushrod. Even the Malibu had to go DOHC only because the pushrod couldn't match Honda and Toyota in refinement.

I thought you meant Mercedes Bluetec which averages about 27 mpg. Is Cadillac's diesel 50 state emission compliant? If so, they should put it on sale during the 2008 calendar year.

Refinement. Ever notice that every Lexus, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Infiniti, and Acura has DOHC engines (SOHC for the Benz V12).

BMW's diesel (335d or 535d) is 23/33 mpg and has 265 hp and 425 lb-ft. Only 66 dBA interior noise at 70 mph, that is Lexus LS460 level. The Camry 4-cylinder is 21/31 by comparison to the diesels. I think diesel will be a big hit.

All those luxury features I listed, Lexus, BMW or Mercedes offers. The 5-series has an optional 20 way seat; Mercedes has power head rests. Personally, I wouldn't pay for power sun shade, lane departure, or adaptive cruise control, but the other brands offer it. The Lexus GS is an 8 speed, the E-class is a 7-speed, the 5-series is going 8 speed on the new model. 8 speeds may not give much more benefit than 6, but it's a marketing tool and gives exclusivity. If the CTS wants to be in the $48-70k sedan class they have to offer that stuff. Even the Toyota Avalon has adaptive cruise control. The CTS needs a diesel that averages 27-28 mpg or a hybrid version that does the same. If they offered both together they would blow away the competition. The 5/100,000 is powertrain only, certified used Cadillacs have a 6/100,000 bumper to bumper, why not just make that standard on new cars if the car is truly reliable. BMW has a 12 year rust warranty, Cadillac's is 6 years. Saab even does free maintenance for 4 years, Cadillac should too. The long warranties help resale value because the car will sell with fewer discounts when new and be more desirable after 4-5 years on the used market because it will still be under warranty while other cars are not.

Why do all the car magazines compare the CTS to the 3-series, C350 and G35?

I know the 5-series isn't a high end car, I stated earlier it is middle range. BMW has the 6 and 7 series priced higher, just like M-B has the CLS and S-class. Cadillac doesn't have a $100,000 sedan. Here is why the CTS is not in the same class as the 5-series and E-class: CTS base price $33,000, E-class is $51,000. CTS needs to offer (they can be options) Bluetooth, 15 speaker 7.1 surround, power rear sunshade, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, head up display, adaptive cruise control, lane departure/blind spot warning, tool and first aid kit, at least 14 way power seats, 4 years paid for maintenance, 12 year rust warranty, power tilt/telescoping steering wheel, rear side window sunshades, electronic parking brake, a 380+ hp DOHC V8, a diesel, a 7 or 8 speed automatic, a hybrid. And that is to just get even. To leap ahead I'd say diesel V8 possibly with belt-alternator light hybrid to really boost fuel economy, messaging seats like the S550 has, tri-zone climate control, 6 year/100k mile bumper to bumper warranty. In response to NOS, I am not sure of how the CTS is ahead of the 5-series aside from USA sales, but the 5-series is a lot more expensive. The 5-series is the known standard and benchmark that other companies compare to. The Jaguar XF-R will have a 5.0 liter V8 with a supercharger. Cadillac right now is tier 2, I wish they weren't but they are. CTS is $33k, STS and DTS are $43-44k. (sounds like Acura TL and RL) The XLR is $78k, but doesn't sell and depreciates quickly. To be a tier 1 brand they need a $48k base price sedan and an $85k base price sedan.

$31,600 is the blue book value of a 2004 E500 4-matic. A new E550 is $60,500 base price without all wheel drive. The last generation E-class had window controls in the middle by the shifter, but the current car has just the shifter and no switches in the middle. Mercedes puts seat controls on high on the door.

But Lexus has 3 hybrids: RX, GS and LS. Mercedes has E class and GL class diesel. BMW has 2 diesels going on sale during 2008 and X6 hybrid and 5-series diesel are coming soon.

The 420 hp in the XF is the middle engine. The XF-R will have over 500 hp from a new DOHC V8. I am not convinced that the CTS-V interior is any better than the STS-V interior, and the STS-V failed to compete with the M5 and E63. The Audi RS6 has 580 hp and no one considers that to be a benchmark car. But notice even Cadillac said BMW was their benchmark and what they aimed for. They admit they are chasing BMW rather than being a leader at performance/luxury. Comparing the CTS to the 5-series is like comparing the G8 to the CTS. The G8 is rear drive, has leather seats and the same V6 and offers a V8 that is faster than a CTS DI for a lot less money, but there is a big difference in materials in a G8 and in a CTS. The same holds true for CTS and 5-series, they may have similar size and power/drivetrain, but there is a difference. I wish they would improve the CTS interior, load it with technology, put a $47,000 base price on the CTS and blow the 5-series away but Cadillac is afraid it seems of the higher end luxury market. Cadillac could sell 750,000 cars a year if they were what they used to be, (1902-1959 era), but what they are now is a tier 2 luxury brand. I'd rather see them tier 1 and leading the way, not competing with Lincoln and Acura as to who can crank more power from a V6 because they are too gutless to make a V8 or V12 or a legit S-class competitor.

The M5 interior is nothing great either (the above pic is the 05 interior, they made it a little better for 08). The 5-series also came out in fall 2003, it is near the end, where as the CTS is brand new, the 5-series will be all new in a year or so. The Mercedes C-class has a garbage interior. The E-class though has better materials than the CTS does, despite the hard seats. The CLS is pretty nice and they make that in AMG tune as well. The Ford Focus also has a hard drive to store songs in, the CTS can't live off having a hard drive as cutting edge. Using top quality leather, aluminum, wood, carpet, etc make a good interior. Jaguar XF is an example. The CTS interior is good for entry level luxury cars, but lacks heads-up display, lane departure warning, Bluetooth, adaptive cruise control, heated steering wheel, 7.1 surround sound, etc. The mid-level cars like the 5-series, E-class, CLS, Jag XF have that stuff. I don't really care for BMW styling inside or out, but I recognize that they use quality materials and their cars have the best handling/driving/steering. BMW sales were up 6.7% in 2007, Mercedes and Lexus were up 1.8% and Cadillac was down 5.7%. BMW is doing something right. If the CTS-V is priced around $63,000 like the M3, people will compare it to an M3, just like the CTS DI is compared to the 335i. The M3 is 3500 pounds, 4200-4300 for a CTS-V, that is a bad mismatch on a curvy road. The Corvette performs near the low end Ferraris because of it's low weight. I don't understand why GM understands that with the Vette, but not with Cadillac. Giving up on a DOHC V8 and not having diesel and hybrid CTS on sale this year also show they don't understand the luxury market.