smk4565
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Everything posted by smk4565
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Daimler is worth $85 billion today, and GM worth $80 billion. When Daimler splits to Mercedes-Benz and Daimler Truck those valuations will rise. Not sure these companies are really that similar since they serve different markets and customers.
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Cadillac's best argument is that they are cheaper than the Germans. I think Cadillac should target Acura, Infiniti and Lincoln and really try to dominate those makers who they can probably almost put out of business if they tried. They aren't going to convert the Tesla faithful nor are they going to beat the Germans, it has been 20 years of seriously trying to compete with the Germans, and 20 more years before that with half-ass attempts like the Cimarron and Allante and Seville. I don't understand why they keep trying the same old stuff. And I watched the Autoline interview with Cadillac's chief engineer, and I sort of got the sense that this is both the last hurrah of their gas performance sedans, and he sort of mentioned they looked at a rear drive SUV, but didn't go that direction. I think GM won't put money into a gas Cadillac after this year, and XT4/XT5/XT6 will probably be around as is for another 4-5 years as they just die on the vine, before they just make this brand all EV.
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But they aren't targeting Rolls-Royce anymore. They tried and it didn't work. What they did realize is that there are people that will pay for an upgraded S-class or GLS to be chauffeured in, and they capitalized on that market. Really Cadillac should do the same with the Escalade and Celestiq and maybe Lyric, I don't know how expensive that will be. But China has a lot of chauffeur driven cars.
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What goal post, it was stated that Maybach was cheaper than Rolls and that is the same as Cadillac being cheaper than Mercedes. Except the Maybach was NOT CHEAPER than a Rolls, they were priced the same. Cadillac prices their cars below the Germans not the same like Maybach did when they went against Rolls-Royce.
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The CLA45 is faster around a racetrack than the Alpha platform ATS-V, the CT4-V and CT5-V. So if the Alpha platform was that good, shouldn't a 464 hp ATS-V be faster around the track than a 382 hp CLA45? Also I don't t think Cadillac owners were asking for an E90 3-series with a cheaper interior. Which is why the ATS tanked, wrong car for the market, and the CT4 sales are tanking and it hasn't even been on sale long.
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The 2005 Maybach 62 cost MORE than the 2005 Rolls-Royce Phantom by $46,250. And the base model Maybach 57 had the same price as the Phantom. Then 2 years later Maybach put the 57S and 62S on sale and the 57S was 40k more than a Phantom and the 62S was about $100,000 more than the Phantom. I don't know why you think the Maybach's were cheaper than a Rolls. As far as the CT5 goes, The CTS undercut the 5-series and E-class by $10k, and the CT5 undercuts the CTS by $10k. If Cadillac wanted an E-class competitor why did they price it lower than the CTS? Why not upgrade the vehicle and move it up market. The Maybach name is a trim level. Why is GMC Yukon Denali a good idea and S-class Maybach not a good idea? It is the same thing.
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Because the CT5 starts at $36k and the interior is nowhere near what you should get in a $100k car, let alone $125k. If the CT5 had an interior on par with the 2021 Escalade, then it would be a worthy A6/E/5 competitor. They better bring it with Celestiq, and I hope they do. Cadillac needs serious cars, not Chevy/GMC re-engineered products. Celestiq will not be a Rolls-Royce competitor. They couldn't even compete with an A8 on the CT6, now all of a sudden they are going after the Phantom?
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I don't think anything competes with Rolls-Royce. The original Maybach did, but the current Maybach does not. Nor does Mercedes claim it to, the point of Maybach is to elevate the brand over BMW and Audi and maybe go after Bentley. Also Cadillac is more than welcome to make a sedan that starts at $140k, no one is stopping them. They can go up market if they want, but instead they killed the CT6 and replaced the CTS with a $10k cheaper CT5. So I think we know what direction Cadillac wants to go. And same goes for Lincoln or Acura, they don't have to build all their products on a Ford/Honda chassis with a turbo 4 or share switchgear, they choose to do that. Which is why most buyers choose not to buy their product. And that's fair both ways.
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That is true for everyone, no one really stocks base models, but it is starting point for reference. The Mercedes is BMW options list is probably longer than anyone outside of Porsche. I also don't know how many people are looking at a $60k 5-series or E-class and then decide to spend $48k on a Cadillac. But that is Cadillac's (and Lexus, Acura and Infiniti) best move to undercut on price.
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AMG GT 4-door is their 5th sedan. Also the Nurburgring record holder for a 4-door. If the Blackwing superior to AMG, then the Blackwing will beat it. And Mercedes has 2 EV sedans coming in a year or so, so they will have to phase out CLS and AMG GT-4 because they have too many sedans.
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So a $36,000 CT5 is direct competition to a $55,000 E350? Or a $48k CT5-V to a $74k E53? (all before options). Are buyers cross shopping that big a price gap?
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It is an investor move really. Daimler is the #1 truck company in the world, as a stand alone company would be worth about $35 billion, of which Mercedes-Benz would be the largest shareholder. Also they will still be able to share any technology with each other. And Mercedes-Benz (the corporation) can push toward EV cars and get investor money as the next Tesla. Also Karl Benz invented the car, Gottlieb Daimler and Wilhem Maybach didn't put their car on sale until 1889, so Benz's name should be on the company anyway.
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75,000 out of 275,000, not 80,000 out of 129,000. And not counting Mercedes 50k Vans sales, since MB Vans are were on fire last year with the rise of home delivery I imagine. Cadillac builds 2 rear drive sedans, Mercedes builds 5 rear drive sedans (if you count CLS separate of E), 1 rear drive wagon, 3 rear drive coupes, 4 rear drive convertibles and the tis after taking away the SLC and S-class coupe/convertible which are still on dealer lots.. So 13 rear drive cars to 2. Who is more committed to performance?
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The CT5 is exactly the same size as the E-class, but it starts $20,000 cheaper. The Hyundai Sonata and CT5 are also the same size and are only $10,000 different in starting price. Unless the Sonata is a CT5 competitor, then the CT5 is not an E-class competitor. And that is correct on the soft close doors it is only on E53/E63, I thought the E450 offered it. Why do cars differ from SUVs? SUVs are the majority of sales? If I wanted a performance SUV (which I don't since I don't like SUVs) then Cadillac has no option. And 80% of Cadillac sales are SUVs. Also offering a FWD product doesn't have any effect on the rear drive products, unless they replace rear drive with front drive. The CLA was an added model, the C/E/S-classes are all still there and all still rear drive as always, nothing changed. Corvette sells the Spark and Sonic in the same showroom as the Corvette, but that doesn't mean the Corvette isn't a performance car. Now if they made the Corvette front drive, or if Mercedes made the E-class front drive, then that is a problem and I would have issue with that. Fair comparison to pit a $65k CLA45 against a $65k CT4 V-Blackwing and see who wins on a track. The CLA45 on VIR ran a 2.58.2 and the most recent CTS-V ran a 2.56.8 so that little FWD based Mercedes is only 1.4 seconds a lap down to the fastest Cadillac ever. And the CLA is faster than the ATS-V was around that track. Thus my point that the CLA is the CT4 competitor, C-class is the CT5 competitor.
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The CLA45 is faster around Virginia International Raceway than the CT4-V, CT5-V, Jaguar F-Type R, Alfa Romeo Gulia Quadrafolio and 718 Cayman S. And 81,000 of the 129,000 vehicles Cadillac sold last year were front drive based.
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The CT5 is a C-Class competitor with C63 S level performance but it is priced higher than that. As far as soft close doors go, they are part of a $3650 option package on the Escalade Premium Luxury trim, or included on Platinum, and not even offered on any other Cadillac. Mercedes does most options as al a carte so you aren’t forced in to big option packages to get stuff you don’t want.
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I saw a news article on motor1 that said it was like $125k loaded, that is why I wondered what the options were. Carbon brakes are probably $9k but where is the other $30k going? Also why do you have to get level 3 to get the tan seats? Why can't you pick seat color separate of trim level or option package?
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The CT5 Blackwing options list is $40k long because you can run one for these to $125k which seems like a lot.
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2008 Maybach 57: $340,500 2008 Maybach 62: $431,000 2008 Maybach 62S Landaulet: $1,350,000 2008 Rolls-Royce Phantom: $403,000 2005 Rolls-Royce Phantom: $328,750 2005 Maybach 57: $325,000 2005 Maybach 62: $375,000 saabkyle04 on YouTube reviewed a 2011 Maybach 62S with a $519,000 sticker. Maybach competed directly with Rolls-Royce, and had more powerful, faster cars. There just isn't enough market in $500k sedans to put money there. Rolls-Royce averages about 4,000 cars a year globally, their best year was 5,000 in 2019. I think Mercedes can let them have their $5k sales and put resources elsewhere.
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You get more size and more horsepower, but the Germans build good cars, and you can get an ultra reliable Lexus ES350 for CT5 money and to some reliability is all they care about. Lots of options in this segment. I saw on Autoline Cadillac got 1,000 reservations for these 2 cars so they are generating some demand out of the gate. But I suspect a lot of dealers want one in to get markup on the first ones and a year from now demand will drop.
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You can get leather on a C300 for $47,695, you have about $6k of options to work with, that can be one of them. Although MB-Tex might be the most durable material on the planet. I agree with Cadillac’s strategy, V6 power and E-class size for 4-cylinder C-class money. But the C-Class I am sure easily outsells the CT5. As do 3-series and Tesla Model 3, all same price point. So it must not be that easy for consumers to buy a Cadillac.
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Rolls-Royce is out of Mercedes league. Maybach trim cars are meant to bridge the gap between a $115k GLS or S-class and a $350,000 Ghost or $500k Phantom. There was like a $150k price gap between the old S600 and a Ghost with only the Bentley Flying Spur sitting there, easiest decision ever to go into a segment with only 1 competitor.
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So GM made a car as luxurious as an E63 or M5 but decided to sell it at a $40k discount just because they are nice guys? They would be idiots to leave money on the table and the one thing GM excels at is bean counting.
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CT5-V Blackwing interior is on par with an A4 or 3-series, or an Acura/Lincoln product. Cadillac interiors look like a fancier Chevy in the way Acura interiors look like a fancier Honda, nothing special.
