smk4565

335d on sale soon for $44,900 (and tax credit eligible). Faster than a DI CTS, costs the same, 10 mpg better.

Agree with all. The Cobalt was thought to be the savior in 2004. I know GM needs a bailout, and I believe that they will get one, and the original $25 billion for the Detroit 3 will be increased to $50 billion. (I wonder the Gov't has to borrow that from China?) My question is, what will GM do with the bailout money to fix their problems, and will they be successful. I have little faith in Rick, Lutz, and Co. to actually pull this off.

Hyundai developing an 8-speed is an example of them trying to innovate, when they offer a 400 hp V8 and 8-speed tranny for CTS or MKS money, Hyundai is going to win over buyers they used to not get. GM needs to constantly innovate so they don't fall behind, and attract new customers. I am not being silly, integrated computer would be easy, the 7-series has in car internet and Chrysler is doing that also. They could incorporate on-board diagnostics with that so you don't need to go to a dealer to pull a check engine code. BMW has a car that gets 36 mpg highway and does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds. If Cadillac had some innovation and entrepreneurial spirit, they could easily do something faster and more powerful than a CTS that got well over 30 mpg. Make an aluminum and carbon fiber car with hybrid and diesel or HCCI engine tech, turbos and 8 gears. It is possible to engineer a 30+ mpg, sub 5-second 0-60 car. Just like 300 miles on a single battery charge is possible, Tesla already has 200 mile range, GM can't beat a little start-up in California?

Sales are down 45% this year compared to 2007, I didn't make that up, it was on CNBC today. CTS coupe was delayed 1 year to a 2011 model, as were the 9-4x and 9-5. Buick LaCrosse was delayed to mid-late 2009. The GLK and Q5 will beat the SRX to market, and that segment is already over crowded. Epsilon II Malibu was delayed also, and they don't have replacements in line for the Impala, STS, DTS, Lucerne. GM always says "the new product is coming" "just wait til next year." Problem is, everyone else has new products coming also, the competition doesn't stand still. The Genesis is getting an 8-speed transmission in 2010 or 2011, is the CTS? GM said the Sky, Aura, Astra would turn around Saturn, they didn't. They said the CTS, G8, Malibu and Lambda trio were going to be class leading and turn things around, and they didn't. Those products are better than what they replaced, but not revolutionary. GM needs revolutionary products to turn it around, and that takes big time R&D dollars which unfortunately they don't have. I want to see GM on top again, I want to see a 400 hp Cadillac that gets over 30 mpg, a Malibu so good they sell 500,000 a year, and an electric car as fast as a CTS that goes 300 miles on a single charge. A car with an integrated computer and glove box keyboard so traveling business people can surf the internet, type reports or compose email from the passenger seat. The iPhone can do it, why can't a car. How about an e-flex SUV with a solar roof that charges itself in the parking lot, or can power the house when parked in the driveway in the summer.

A challenge all American industries face is creating jobs you can't outsource. If a person in China can assemble a car just as well as a person in Detroit and does it for 1/4th the pay, companies will build the car in China. Detroit has to find a way to out innovate Japan and China, build something they can't build and make it better than they can. Make a Volt that goes 300 miles instead of 40, or the same body gap tolerances of a CTS into a Cobalt, or a two-mode hybrid Cruze that gets 70 mpg, or a CTS with an 8-speed transmission and bio-diesel engine. Detroit and any other American person or business has to compete with the whole world, and there is a lot of talent and competition emerging from all over right now.

That could all be gone, under chapter 11, they can tear up every contract they had for labor and suppliers. You say GM is turning it around, but they have lost $73 billion over the past 4 years and this is the worst year, they haven't hit the bottom yet. How are they turning it around, sales are down 45% this year, and they are burning nearly $2 billion a month in cash. Furthermore, they had to cut R&D spending and delay new models, so if the economy does rebound, come 2010/2011 they'll have dated products while other automakers have new ones. They are in crisis mode, not turnaround mode. Can't only blame the economy either, because VW, Toyota, Honda aren't facing bankruptcy. Blame it on the business model that only is adequate under flourishing economic conditions.

Chapter 11 is their way out of the UAW deal that costs them $2000 more per car. To me this is their best path, combined with government aid. If they just take the bailout money, but continue to burn $2 billion a month, in December 2009 they will be out of money again.

No, they can file chapter 11 bankruptcy which allows them to reorganize, gets the creditors off their backs and would allow them to redo labor contracts. They would stay in business throughout the process, and a federal court would oversee the bankruptcy. If they file Chapter 7 bankruptcy, they liquidate everything and close down. Chapter 11 would be any of the Detroit 3's path. GM will be the first one to run out of money, Ford can survive 2009, GM could be out of money by January.

The 370Z is officially 332 hp and has a 7-speed automatic. So that would top the Hyundai and the V6 Camaro and V8 Mustang.

Chrysler makes the Avenger and Sebring, that is true junk. Ford has the Ranger and Town Car, GM has the Impala, G5, Trailblazer (although they did a good job getting rid of the grand prix, minivans, etc). They all still have some junk that only rental car agencies want to buy, and even the Malibu and CTS need big incentives to sell. The past hurts them because those customers that left and went to Honda/Toyota aren't coming back no matter what GM and Ford makes. I know that Ford quality is tied with Honda and Toyota, but most people don't and even if they do, they hold a grudge from being screwed over in the past. Even worse, is it is mainly the baby-boomer crowd that has money that won't consider domestics. My mom is one of them, she won't consider any GM product, even at 50% off, she was screwed in the past and won't go back.

They could learn how to build and install windmills, solar panels and hydro electric generators. They could be trained to do other kinds of infrastructure projects like power lines or repairing bridges. Toyota can hire some of them as well. The steel industry in Pittsburgh was before I was born, but this city was dependent on steel like Detroit is on cars, now we don't have a steel industry (aside from US Steel headquarters), yet the local economy is fine, even better than most other parts of the country. I agree that GM needs a bailout, but this is going to b a one shot deal. If they burn $2 billion a month in cash in 2009, and use up all the government money, they'll just go bankrupt in 2010 and there won't be a second bailout to save them. The bailout will be there, but it is what GM does with it that matters, I fear they will just go about business as usual like they have for the past 4 years.

GM has $32 billion in debt and owes $7 billion to the VEBA fund in 2010. If (when) the bailout comes, $25 billion is going to buy one year of life, especially since some of it has to go toward updating factories and building "green" cars. It will get them to 2010, and get the health care burden off their back, and maybe the cash burn slows by then. They could become stable in 2010. At this point, what if Toyota buys them? Toyota can buy the entire Big 3 if they wanted, but they are such a mess and riddled with debt they are worthless. If GM gets a big bailout and all those debts wiped out, it opens the door for Toyota to buy them for $5 billion or so and take over. Then in effect, the government would have written a $25 billion check to Toyota. (the government would have to take control of GM stock to prevent this)

The Detroit 3 and the UAW dug their own grave. In the 70s and 80s they built junk, cashed in, and didn't see the Japanese as a threat. They continue to be mismanaged today; Wagoner (making $15 million a year) has overseen a $73 billion loss since 2004. The economy wasn't that bad in 2004-2006 yet GM lost tons of money. Detroit has been stubborn with big egos and entitlement philosophy for 50+ years, this is the wake up call they needed. They need new management, the current crew can't turn this ship around. All three won't go bust, they will just downsize, so the Michigan economy may take a hit, but it won't be devastated. Perhaps though some of the bailout money should go to laid off workers, and in retraining them to do new jobs in business segments that have a brighter future than the American auto industry. Even if they did go bust, at some point the car market will rise back to 15+ million units a year, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc will have to hire more employees to build that many cars, and jobs will be recreated, just not at UAW wages.

$73 billion in losses since 2004. No one is responsible for GM's downfall except GM. This has been coming for 4 years, and they did nothing to protect against it. The union stayed greedy and labor costs are too high, GM keep rebadging with the Epsilons, Lambdas, G5, Torrent, etc and they focused on big SUVs, and forgot about cars. They used the same business model that didn't work in the 70s, didn't work in the 80s, didn't work in the 90s, didn't work in the 2000s, and now it has caught up to them. This is exactly the wake up call GM needs to get them to shed unnecessary brands, redo the UAW contract, and eliminate excess capacity, employees, dealerships, etc. I predict that they file for bankruptcy, but they won't go out of business. Circuit City filed for bankruptcy, they still have stores open and people shop there. They'll get another $25 billion from the government, but if they screw that up, I highly doubt there will be a second bailout next year, they better get it right on the first try. The slippery slope of bailouts, is where does the government stop? Do they bail out airlines, DHL (who just laid off 9,500 people), Circuit City, Starbucks, or other struggling retailers?

Ahh the problems of Buick summed up in one line. 30% off the sticker price. If they were challenging Lexus, or even Honda, they wouldn't have to price cut like that. The average transaction price on a Civic is $19,200, is a Lucerne V8 only $2500 better than a Civic? Where are the fog lights on that Lucerne?

Worldwide, Toyota beats GM in sales volume, but sales volume is irrelevant. PROFIT is all that matters in this case. Toyota makes profit, GM, Ford and Chrysler do not. If they give GM $20 billion in cash, this time next year GM will be bankrupt again and looking for more money. If they don't stop burning $2 billion a month in cash, a bailout doesn't do anything but buy them a few more months. The best thing for GM is chapter 11 bankruptcy with government aid to get them through it. It is their only path to survival, and the GM that comes out of the restructuring would have to look very different from the GM of today.

They need chapter 11 bankruptcy, get all the creditors off their back, dump Wagoner and the union, have the government fund them through it and come back. They are at the point where they need to blow it up and start over.

The rebadges kill them because if the Chevy dealer offers $16,000 for a Cobalt, the consumer can go to the Pontiac dealer to see if they get $15,000 on a G5, then back to Chevy to see if they can get $14,500. People that primarily shop GM products can drive down the price by pitting Chevy dealers against Pontiac, Saturn or Buick, etc. The Lambdas are awfully similar, so they must compete with each other, as well as the imports and Ford. Stock is at $2.92, a 65 year low. The company has lost $60 billion over the past 5 years and for some reason Wagoner isn't taking any blame and the company seems that "stay the course" and business as usual is the way to go.

The American workforce is 155 million people with 6.5% unemployed at the moment, thus 145 million employed. (department of labor statistics) GM has 250,000 or so employees worldwide, even with dealers and their suppliers that is a million or so employees. The Detroit 3, all their suppliers and dealers are about 3 million workers. 3 million is a lot of people, but it is only 1.9% of the workforce. I believe that GM needs a bailout to survive, but I don't think Congress should or will give them one unless GM has some sort of recovery plan in place. GM has yet to present a restructuring plan.

Heated seats are an option included in the Luxury Collection package. Only an 8-way power driver seat is standard on the CTS and a manual passenger seat. Most cars don't have heated seats standard because they are pointless in some climates. My complaints with the CTS are summed up in the red car picture and that my knee hits the console near the temp control. Also poor resale value if buying new, but that makes a used one off a lease attractive.

GM's brands prevent them from getting high margins. The Malibu competes with the Aura and G6 to drive down transaction prices of all 3. Same with the Enclave-Acadia. If you put a $2500 rebate on an Acadia, then Buick dealers want an incentive to sell more Enclaves, so the Enclave gets $2500 off. GM had to cut or rename models because so many were dated or uncompetitive. Cutting brands reduces white collar employees and marketing budgets. GM has tried layoffs and cost cutting for 15 years and it hasn't worked. They need Fewer brands and MORE R&D spending, essentially doubling R&D on each car. Toyota profit first 9 months of 2008 is $7.2 billion. Never in my life will I buy a Toyota, but the company is fine and will continue to be fine.

Toyota will be fine, they have made a $7.2 billion profit the first 9 months of 2008. So on a horrible year they'll make $8-9 billion. If the Detroit 3 go out of business, that leaves about 45% market share that is open to others to get. It will be bad if GM goes under, but only about 1-2% of the workforce is employed by the auto industry, the country would recover.

I complained about lack of fog lights and dinky wheels when the car first came out. The all gray plastic looks cheap too, and those look dated fast as the gray plastic fades in color. The gray plastic air dam below the front bumper is cheap plastic also. GM cost cutting hurts this and every other car, because they have to put $2500 rebates on cars to get them to sell, rather than just making it good in the first place. The top picture should be the base model. Cadillac still operates the same as Chevy by offering cheaply appointed base models, a Mercedes or Jaguar wouldn't have tacky gray plastic where fog lights should be.

Toyota posted a $200 million or so North American loss, but made profit worldwide. Toyota is having a bad year like everyone else, but at the end of it they will have turned a profit. That is the difference between them and the Detroit 3, they can ride out the storm of a bad economy, stay in the black, and wait for the market to rebound. I want to see GM come up with a plan in case the government turns them down. If the government bails them out, then airlines want a bailout, then retailers like circuit city will, and on and on. At some point the government (which also has no money) is going to stop giving bail outs. I am not a fan of the gov't giving $150 billion to AIG either. Although if the stock rebounds they could make that back, but I don't like rewarding failed management. Wagoner makes $14.4 million a year, giving him a $25 billion check for his incompetence is no different. I suspect that there will be some government bailout but only once GM files chapter 11 and reorganizes and meets some stipulations from Congress.

I am self employed at 2 jobs and a year away from my MBA; GM going under won't affect me because if the job market is still horrid I can work for myself. GM may have to abandon most production in North America, they may have to go down to Chevy-Cadillac at 10% market share and dump 50% of their workforce. I don't know what will happen, but it seems like Wagoner and the other officers have no plan and just think the government should cut them a check and they'll do business as usual. I wish Wagoner had a reorganization plan and would take some blame for the mess they are in. He is the CEO and has been for 8 years, in those 8 years they have gone downhill and he's driven them to bankruptcy. Toyota isn't scared at all, they aren't burning cash and have over $40 billion in reserve. If GM going bankrupt was going to destroy Toyota, Toyota could just buy GM, it would only cost $1.9 billion. GM going bankrupt and some suppliers folding may hurt US Toyota production in the short term, but they can manufacture abroad and import and find new suppliers. With how low demand is now, they'll be able to keep up. By the time the market turns, they'll have new suppliers and will be able to claim huge market share.