smk4565

GM seems to be in the business of selling discounts and deals rather than selling superior product, so I would expect some fall sales event, followed by the Red Tag holiday event.

Even if only 1/3 was real money, that is still a $31 billion difference. And GM is going to lose money this year and probably next, while Toyota is raking it in. I know Pontiac isn't the reason they are losing money, but the company is losing too much to keep operating the way they have in the past.

The media is already having a field day, but who cares about them they need to build cars that beat Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes. GM has lost $51.3 billion in the past 3 years. Meanwhile Toyota made $42.75 billion in profit. That is a 94 billion dollar difference over 3 years. GM isn't going to be competitive for very long at that rate. It's time to cut the fat and pour money into Chevy and Cadillac and protect the core.

I was thinking Mercedes GL class proportions, but aluminum could make the Escalade lighter and give it a performance and fuel economy edge. Obviously rear drive, maybe even go after the Range Rover a little bit.

Why not make the Escalade a unibody aluminum frame vehicle, with a diesel V6 and DOHC V8, both with a two mode hybrid option and 7-8 speed transmission. You don't get to "standard of the world" with Chevy/Buick platforms and front drive SUVs.

No one should be upset if Pontiac goes away. G3 and G5 fans can get the same car at Chevy, Vibe fans can get a Toyota, G6 fans can find a better car in the Aura or Malibu, Solsstice fans can get a Sky, and the G8 isn't selling, and they could easily sell a Holden as a Chevy. GM's road to recovery is not in rebadged Pontiacs and GMCs, it is in making Chevy at least equal to Honda and Toyota, and Cadillac equal to Mercedes, BMW and Lexus. Chevy and Cadillac have a long way to go still, Pontiac, Saab, Hummer are distractions at this point.

I don't care if Pontiac gets killed, they are mostly making rental cars now anyway. They probably should kill the brand or make them rental car only with 3 models. I'd rather see them make better Cadillacs and Chevrolets than to keep wasting dollars on G3's and G5's no matter how incremental the cost to do it. Cadillac has to go up market to where they should have been all along, GM needs Cadillac as a symbol of greatness for American cars. Many people have an image/perception that American cars are unreliable junk made of plastic that have poor handling. Cadillac needs to get to Mercedes level pricing and restore the lost image of American cars. Cadillac is the last brand that can do it, Chrysler can't, Lincoln can't, it's Cadillac or nothing.

But where I live there is a Buick-Subaru dealership and a Pontiac-GMC-Hummer-Saab dealership. Cadillac-Saab or B-P-G is basically impossible as rival companies own them. The Saab dealership used to have it's own building, but closed down, and they are in the Pontiac showroom now.

How do you pay for it? They can't keep the models they have now current, if they add models, they'll be on 8-10 year life cycles.

And the S4/S5 is not as good as an M3. The Volvo S80 has a V8 and fwd/awd set up, and that car is not as good as any rear drive luxury car of similar price. If the Escalade's mission becomes to target the Lincoln MKT or Acura MDX or Enclave, then the fwd/awd set up is fine. I think it is just one more sign that GM is giving up on the original quest from 2003 to go after BMW and Mercedes, and is now wanting to go after Acura, Lincoln, etc.

I wasn't comparing Buick cars to Hyundai cars, only saying that the Genesis will have a tough time because of who makes it. Just as Buick will have a hard time when for equal money people can get a Cadillac or Lexus. Further proven by the point that the CTS is no doubt a better car than the Lexus ES350, the ES350 is average at best, yet it still outsells the CTS because it is made by Lexus and people will pay for the L badge. If the CTS is selling about 70,000 a year, Buick is going to have a really hard time selling 70-75,000 at almost as high a price. 2-3 years ago everyone thought Pontiac would have an all rear drive lineup, and make performance cars and be restored to former glory. Now they have Aveo, Cobalt, and Matrix rebadges, a dated G6 that is 40% fleet, and 2 very low volume rear drive cars. GM couldn't (or was too broke to) do anything with Pontiac, what makes Buick any different. GM failed to deliver in the past, and they are just more broke now. GM can say Buick will be like Lexus, Cadillac will be as good as BMW, they'll stop doing rebates and fleet sales, their cars will be as reliable as the Japanese, etc but at this point, I won't believe anything until I see it.

I agree with a slightly smaller than a Malibu high $20k car and a low to mid $30s malibu sized car to compete with the MKZ makes sense, but GM doesn't always do what makes sense. Buick can't and won't compete with Lexus because Buick is Buick, and Lexus is Lexus. Buick has become a joke and damaged brand, and Lexus has become the gold standard. GM's R&D budget is smaller than Toyota's and Toyota has far fewer brands and models to spread that money to. The Enclave isn't even doing much since a dated and more expensive Lexus RX outsells it by over 2 to 1. The Lexus ES350 (which isn't even a good car) outsells the CTS most months. There is no way a LaCrosse priced at $34k can outsell a CTS. The Genesis is possibly the best car under $50,000 yet it won't sell well because it is a Hyundai. Despite better handling and braking than a BMW 550i and better acceleration than the 750i, BMW buyers won't be considering a Hyundai, just like Lexus buyers won't look at a Buick. And where is the Nav system on the LaCrosse?

Very similar dash shape to the Malibu, the top end version could compete with a bottom end ES350, but people are willing to pay for the "L" on the front of the car so all things being equal most would pick a Lexus over this, so this better be better. The 2010 MKZ has a new interior that is nice, plus has the 340 hp ecoboost coming, the MKS is nicer than this car. Although the Hyundai Genesis kills them all, I sat in a Genesis a couple days ago, the interior is really good, blows away STS, DTS or anything form Lincoln or Buick. I do like the exhaust pipes integrated into the bumper, but they just copied that from Lexus. Buick needs more originality, (as does the Genesis) and less trying to make a car look like a Lexus. Lexus doesn't even make 1 car that is well styled, why copy them?

Weak. This along with the 40% of Pontiacs that go to rental lots are why the brand is dead and the G8 isn't selling.

I like how they took some elements of the Malibu interior, but with a more high tech look. The white center console reminds me of Apple iPods, iPhones, etc which is a good thing. The interior would be really good for a car around $25-27k like a Prius, but at $40k, I don't know. Exterior looks awkward and too much like a civic and the trunk seems high, not liking the exterior, but like the interior.

No one should get an Alpha besides Cadillac. There isn't a heavily rebated, 40% rental car volume brand using 3-series platforms. If this car is supposed to compete with a 3-series, it should be $33-49,00 and $62,000 for a V-series. A 5-series is cheaper here than it would be in the UK. The 3-series is built in South Carolina, yet commands a premium price. BMWs don't cost more than Cadillac's and the E-class doesn't start at $53,000 because of exchange rates. They cost that much because the materials used are more expensive and the engineering is more intense. Plus, those brands can command a premium because of reputation, people are willing to pay $50k for a compact car because it's "the ultimate driving machine." Cadillac should be trying to out do them, not get 80 or 90% of the way there and figure they'll just have a $5k lower MSRP then add an employee discount to it to move metal.

I can read fine... "But the ad blitz hasn’t had much effect. In August, GM’s 2,712 U.S. Pontiac dealers sold only 1,915 G8s — not even one per dealer. GM has problems on many fronts, including high gasoline prices, falling truck sales and billions in losses. The G8 illustrates one problem that’s often overlooked: The automaker’s lineup contains many vehicles that deliver barely any bang for the buck." Selling .7 cars per dealer is not a success. The G8 interior isn't good enough, the Hyundia Genesis has a better one and a more powerful V6 and a more powerful V8 (and more fuel efficient). But I think the main problem is the Pontiac brand is too damaged and people are just not likely to spend $30k or more on anything with a Pontaic badge on it.

EV1 was a bust, noble effort but it didn't work, so that should not be on the list, let alone #1. GTO seems high, the Mustang really created the affordable sports coupe/convertible segment. 67 Toronado should be on there since it was the first modern front drive car. Silverado has been a huge seller, although nothing is groundbreaking about a pickup.

This car should have been in development years ago, at least it is finally coming. How about pricing this like a 3-series and overhauling the CTS and making CTS $50,000 base. A 335i starts at $39,000 and can easily hit near $50k. And stopping the priced like a 1-series but sized like a 3-series or priced like a 3-series but sized like a 5-series, because the imports have been whopping on Cadillac for years. The GM beancounters need to stop nickle and diming, their engineers need to get behind the wheel of a 550i and E550, and the design department has to stop holding back, and make the BTS better than the 335i and CTS better than the Jaguar XF (the new #1 midsize luxury sedan according to Edmunds, Motortrend and CAR Magazine).

I knew in January the G8 wouldn't sell. The interior is too cheap for the price range, the car is too large to be a performance car, and they didn't change anything from the Australian version to tailor it to the American market. The repeated every mistake of the GTO, but in a 4-door sedan this time. It isn't gas prices or economy either, because BMW sold 5,000 5-series in August. Maybe the G8 isn't 5-series performance at half the price after all.

LaCrosse 5,814 for the month 29,045 for the year Lucerne 5,920 for the month 37,600 for the year Enclave 6,078 for the month 31,729 for the year 99,009 total in the first 8 months (down 21.5%) puts them on pace for 149,500 cars this year. I think August was their best volume month this year, employee pricing is probably boosting sales. Saab and Hummer combined have sold 35,000 total units in 2008, that's pathetic.

The Intrigue GLS is probably the best W-body I've driven, and I thought it was a little soft and would bounce or float a bit too much on an uneven road. The Grand Prix Comp G handles better, but it rode harder and engine lacked refinement. The Impala is the 2nd worst handling car I have ever driven (previous Ford Taurus takes that honor) although the LeSabre is really bad too, the Impala has better steering. The Camry is bad also, but I never drove the current generation. I am sure that the new LaCrosse will improve upon the current, but that isn't hard to do. GM often falls into the trap of thinking that since they improved a car it will be competitive, the measuring stick is not how much better it is than the current LaCrosse, but how much better is it than an Avalon (or Lincoln, Lexus, etc). What is the Average transaction price on a Lucerne? I don't know, but would guess it to be $30-32,000 since I mainly see the V6 model.

A base Lexus ES is $34,320, a base CTS is $34,420, but Lexus doesn't have employee pricing so a CTS right now is actually priced below the ES. For the LaCrosse to go after the ES, the base price would have to be $34,000 and like you said sell around $37,000, which is the CTS's price range. That won't happen. The LaCrosse now sells closer to 40,000 a year, adding $10,000 to the price is not going to double sales, unless they take 75-80% of Lucerne sales, which is very possible.

Agreed and the Sable is getting the axe soon. Another competitor is the Camry XLE, those can run to $31,000, same with the top line Accord.

But Malibu, Aura, etc will all be Epsilon II in time anyway, and all share parts. I'll buy into Buick making a better Avalon (although they have yet to do it) or competing with the Taurus or Maxima, but I won't buy into them competing with Acura or Lexus or Lincoln.