smk4565

They need chapter 11 bankruptcy, get all the creditors off their back, dump Wagoner and the union, have the government fund them through it and come back. They are at the point where they need to blow it up and start over.

The rebadges kill them because if the Chevy dealer offers $16,000 for a Cobalt, the consumer can go to the Pontiac dealer to see if they get $15,000 on a G5, then back to Chevy to see if they can get $14,500. People that primarily shop GM products can drive down the price by pitting Chevy dealers against Pontiac, Saturn or Buick, etc. The Lambdas are awfully similar, so they must compete with each other, as well as the imports and Ford. Stock is at $2.92, a 65 year low. The company has lost $60 billion over the past 5 years and for some reason Wagoner isn't taking any blame and the company seems that "stay the course" and business as usual is the way to go.

The American workforce is 155 million people with 6.5% unemployed at the moment, thus 145 million employed. (department of labor statistics) GM has 250,000 or so employees worldwide, even with dealers and their suppliers that is a million or so employees. The Detroit 3, all their suppliers and dealers are about 3 million workers. 3 million is a lot of people, but it is only 1.9% of the workforce. I believe that GM needs a bailout to survive, but I don't think Congress should or will give them one unless GM has some sort of recovery plan in place. GM has yet to present a restructuring plan.

Heated seats are an option included in the Luxury Collection package. Only an 8-way power driver seat is standard on the CTS and a manual passenger seat. Most cars don't have heated seats standard because they are pointless in some climates. My complaints with the CTS are summed up in the red car picture and that my knee hits the console near the temp control. Also poor resale value if buying new, but that makes a used one off a lease attractive.

GM's brands prevent them from getting high margins. The Malibu competes with the Aura and G6 to drive down transaction prices of all 3. Same with the Enclave-Acadia. If you put a $2500 rebate on an Acadia, then Buick dealers want an incentive to sell more Enclaves, so the Enclave gets $2500 off. GM had to cut or rename models because so many were dated or uncompetitive. Cutting brands reduces white collar employees and marketing budgets. GM has tried layoffs and cost cutting for 15 years and it hasn't worked. They need Fewer brands and MORE R&D spending, essentially doubling R&D on each car. Toyota profit first 9 months of 2008 is $7.2 billion. Never in my life will I buy a Toyota, but the company is fine and will continue to be fine.

Toyota will be fine, they have made a $7.2 billion profit the first 9 months of 2008. So on a horrible year they'll make $8-9 billion. If the Detroit 3 go out of business, that leaves about 45% market share that is open to others to get. It will be bad if GM goes under, but only about 1-2% of the workforce is employed by the auto industry, the country would recover.

I complained about lack of fog lights and dinky wheels when the car first came out. The all gray plastic looks cheap too, and those look dated fast as the gray plastic fades in color. The gray plastic air dam below the front bumper is cheap plastic also. GM cost cutting hurts this and every other car, because they have to put $2500 rebates on cars to get them to sell, rather than just making it good in the first place. The top picture should be the base model. Cadillac still operates the same as Chevy by offering cheaply appointed base models, a Mercedes or Jaguar wouldn't have tacky gray plastic where fog lights should be.

Toyota posted a $200 million or so North American loss, but made profit worldwide. Toyota is having a bad year like everyone else, but at the end of it they will have turned a profit. That is the difference between them and the Detroit 3, they can ride out the storm of a bad economy, stay in the black, and wait for the market to rebound. I want to see GM come up with a plan in case the government turns them down. If the government bails them out, then airlines want a bailout, then retailers like circuit city will, and on and on. At some point the government (which also has no money) is going to stop giving bail outs. I am not a fan of the gov't giving $150 billion to AIG either. Although if the stock rebounds they could make that back, but I don't like rewarding failed management. Wagoner makes $14.4 million a year, giving him a $25 billion check for his incompetence is no different. I suspect that there will be some government bailout but only once GM files chapter 11 and reorganizes and meets some stipulations from Congress.

I am self employed at 2 jobs and a year away from my MBA; GM going under won't affect me because if the job market is still horrid I can work for myself. GM may have to abandon most production in North America, they may have to go down to Chevy-Cadillac at 10% market share and dump 50% of their workforce. I don't know what will happen, but it seems like Wagoner and the other officers have no plan and just think the government should cut them a check and they'll do business as usual. I wish Wagoner had a reorganization plan and would take some blame for the mess they are in. He is the CEO and has been for 8 years, in those 8 years they have gone downhill and he's driven them to bankruptcy. Toyota isn't scared at all, they aren't burning cash and have over $40 billion in reserve. If GM going bankrupt was going to destroy Toyota, Toyota could just buy GM, it would only cost $1.9 billion. GM going bankrupt and some suppliers folding may hurt US Toyota production in the short term, but they can manufacture abroad and import and find new suppliers. With how low demand is now, they'll be able to keep up. By the time the market turns, they'll have new suppliers and will be able to claim huge market share.

GM's brands have to go because they can't afford to fund them or provide them with competitive product. It would take over $10 billion a year in R&D to do so and they spend close to 5. Mitsubishi is terrible, but they aren't about to go bankrupt. GM's brands aren't an asset, they are a liability at this point, because they are redundant and underfunded and compete against each other. Procter and Gamble and General Mills aren't going bankrupt either, so they get to keep their brands. The economy was not this bad in 2005 and GM lost money, wasn't this bad in 2006, GM lost money, was bad, but not this bad in 2007, GM lost money. Toyota in this economy will make at least $5 billion in profit this year. They don't need a bailout. If GM can't make money in a down economy, they shouldn't exist. They need a radical change to change their business model, probably 30% of their workforce and dealers will lose their jobs, but 30% loss is better than 100% loss.

I hope they do get rid of the leaf spring, a 600 hp light weight GT-R is coming. If the GT-R is only 5 seconds behind the ZR-1 on the Nurburgring now, 120 hp and 200 fewer pounds will easily make that up and then some. The Lotus Elise SC or a Lotus Exige get better mileage than a Corvette and match it in 0-60 and beat it in handling and braking. I think the Corvette is a good car, they have 90% of the performance of a Ferrari at 30% the price so that is saying something. Although the Vette interior leaves much to be desired, the car has great performance bang for buck value. GM performance's real problem is stuff like the G8 that is overweight and needs a 6 liter engine to make 360 hp. There are V6s with 330 hp, and 4.2-4.6 liter V8s making 375+ hp.

I don't blame the government, only GM. Toyota isn't crying that they need a bailout, they are on pace to make a $5 billion profit this year. GM still hasn't announced a plan on how to make money again. The government shouldn't give them money until they have a reorganization plan.

$3.27 a share now. Even if the government gives them $25 billion, they will burn through that cash in 1 year and be in exactly the same situation this time next year. Congress knows this and won't just give them $25 billion without some proof that GM can reorganize their business to make profit. They haven't made profit in 4 years, the 8 brand strategy is killing them, are are the union and dealer network.

$3.42 a share as of 2:30 pm. Down 21% today. Analysts today released a price target of $0-1. I predict bankruptcy in January. If there is a government bailout it will have strings attached, like new management, new business model, and lots of restructuring, part of which may be bankruptcy.

They can go to Germany and hire one of two dozen AMG or M guys to replace him. I think Heinricy did an admirable job with what he had to work with, but it isn't like he brought a V10, V12 or 7 or 8-speed transmission to GM or any great weight reducing technology. The CTS-V for example is 300 pounds heavier than an M5 and already has a $2000 cash back offer on it. Hyundai even has an 8-speed transmission coming in 2010. GM has some good bang for the buck performance cars like the Camaro, but mots of their performance products suffer from having the same rental grade interior as the base model vehicles do. They do performance better than Ford, Toyota or Honda, but still lag behind the Europeans.

Maybe the new guy will make a performance car with a DOHC engine, rather than modified engines from the Silverado.

2006 Camry base models with 4 cylinder and gray cloth sell for about $17,000 around here. Those are like $23,000 new, that is good resale. An 06 CTS 3.6 that was over $35,000 new goes for $20,000, that is not good resale. I know all cars lose value when they go off the lot, but BMW, Honda and Toyota hold value well compared to GM's offerings. Personally, I think the Camry sucks, but they sell in big numbers and hold their value.

Tanking resale values is what would keep me from buying any GM car new. 2006 Cadillacs go for near $20k, why spend $45k on a new one? Or why buy a new Malibu when a 2 year old Cadillac is the same price. Bankruptcy reorganization wouldn't deter me really but resale and quality of product would. Problem GM has, is it is impossible to make best in class products with great reliability without money. I think bankruptcy is coming, and Rick keeps saying it absolutely isn't an option and they won't consider it. I think in Rick's mind, 8 brands and doing the same old thing they did the past 10 years will eventually lead to a different result. They are stubborn and have zero think outside the box ability. The worst part about the whole thing is a year ago people predicted this would happen, GM denied it, now it is 100 days away, GM still denies it, and they have no plan. I put in another thread, that Toyota buying them and killing off most of the brands but keeping about 60% of the company going is probably the best they could hope for. 60% is better than 0%, if I were Wagoner I'd be begging Toyota for help at this point.

Nope, because many of their products are still out of date, or have poor resale values and consumers are going away from GM. I think the only thing that can save GM is Toyota. Toyota has the money to buy them, shut down half (or more of) the brands, lay off 30-40% of the workforce and manage them the right way. GM would get ripped to shreds in the process, but 60% of GM surviving is better than 0% surviving.

The G-platform is fine, (i've got one) but it isn't as good as any rear drive $40k plus car and that is the problem (modern car, not the Town Car). 4-speeds and 275 hp doesn't cut it anymore either. The DeVille/DTS's time was 1995-2005. A Genesis gives you more content/features, better warranty, better engine, better chassis, better transmission, better performance, better fuel economy for less money. When Cadillac has fallen behind Hyundai, it is truly a sad time at GM. It looks like the DTS will be around a while though, since there is no money to make a replacement, and the CTS coupe is delayed 2 more years.

They have $16.2 billion in cash right now, and need 11-14 to operate, so about $4 billion left. Wagoner said the cash burn will slow down, but even if it does, come February 1, 2009 they are probably bankrupt. Maybe Toyota can buy them, and spare Chevy, Cadillac, and a few jobs.

I don't see government help coming unless GM first sells off whatever they can, takes whatever loans they can, gets union concessions, and has a plan to change their business model. The gov't won't loan them $20 billion so they can burn through it and be in the same situation a year later. They only have 100-120 days of cash left also, come February they could be done. Their best hope at this point is probably if Toyota buys them and spares 2-3 brands and maybe half the workforce. But I don't think Toyota wants them.

They will be bankrupt by February, they might as well just do it now and get some government help for the displaced workers, restructure the whole business model, dump the union, and dump at least 4 brands. They'll be a small company with 12-15% market share, but it is all they can hope for at this point. For years they insisted on needed 8 brands and rebadging lackluster cars to keep those brands with line-ups, now they are paying for it.

Seems like it will offer pretty good performance (for a V6 car) but it shouldn't be called Genesis coupe. They shouldn't use a name twice and they can't' position the Genesis as a luxury car competitor if there is a $25k college kid coupe with the same name.

Bankruptcy time. They just burned another $6.9 billion in the 3rd quarter. The cash burn is no longer $1 billion a month, it is now $2.3. By early-middle of next year they will be out of money, if they declare bankruptcy, and can get rid of the union, and can get government help, they could come back as Chevy-Buick-Cadillac and hold 15% market share probably and at least make a profit. Not the ideal situation and a lot of jobs will be lost, but they didn't take measures years ago to prevent this, this is their best option now.