smk4565

This is a good idea, it saves them $7 million a year and they need to save wherever possible. I never liked the deal in the first place, and he made little or no impact on sales, since Buick sales have dropped every year since they signed him. They need to cut every celebrity endorsement, cut the private jets and cap executive pay if they want a bailout.

Slower than a car from 11 years ago is not a win for the G8. Pontiac is beyond savable, they should be working on the BTS and a new Impala instead.

The E39 M5 does the Ring in 8 minutes 28 seconds. E39 is a better performance comparison.

That is a good time, but if lapping the Nurburgring at low cost is what you want, an E39 M5 is faster than this thing and goes for about $26,000 used. Why does Pontiac compare the G8 GXP to the E39 M5 anyway, are they bragging that in 2009 they can do what BMW did in 1998? They could have put the STS-V engine in the G8 GXP and at least made it somewhat special, rather than recycle the 6.2 pushrod that is in multiple Chevy and GMC products. The Camaro SS can out perform this car for $8000 less, so I don't see where the "value" is in a $40,000 Pontiac. My main problems with the G8 are interior fit and finish (Cobalt level at best) and the Aussie styling. The GTO flopped because it wasn't designed for the American market, this car is selling 1,000 units a month for the same reason.

Agreed. But Hyundai has more cache sadly.

In any other industry, if the CEO oversaw a 95% drop in stock price he'd be gone. I don't know why the shareholders and board haven't thrown him out yet. Time for new leadership and they need to go outside the company to find a CEO, Lutz or Henderson will just bring more of the same.

Right, but how do you pay for it? Because Buick needs new product, Cadillac needs new product, Saab is starved, Saturn even though it has new product isn't selling, Chevy needs the Cruze, Volt, a new Impala, etc. The pie is being sliced too many ways. I'd like to see Pontiac or Buick make good cars again, but with 5-10% of GM's resources going to the brand it won't happen. This is why years ago I said Saab, Hummer and Buick should go, so they can salvage what's left over.

I forgot about the gallon difference, the Polo has a 10 gallon tank by their measure, 12 by ours, so over 730 miles they still got 60.8 mpg, which is rather strong. They did mock the Prius saying how the Polo and even a Subaru Legacy diesel can beat it in mileage.

The Two-mode isn't available yet, and the 2009 Vue hybrid gets 25/32 mpg. Until they beat the Prius, Congress and the critics are always going to say, "well Toyota's hybrid gets 46 mpg, why do Detroit's only get 26? when is Detroit going to make a 50 mpg car?" They should put a 2.0 turbo diesel in the Malibu to make it a 40+ mpg car, hybrid option to get it to 50 mpg. 50 mpg in a family sedan would make the Camry hybrid's 33 mpg look rather weak.

Mulally should drive there in the 39 mpg Fusion hybrid. Wagoner's problem is the Volt would probably break down and not make it, and is left with the 20 mpg Tahoe hybrid. Same problem for Nardelli with the 20 mpg Durango hybrid. On last night's episode of Top Gear they had a 700 mile race with any car they wanted, the only stipulation was they would only get 1 tank of gas. Richard Hammond with a Volkswagen Polo diesel averaged over 70 mpg on the trip. GM makes a big deal that the Cruze may get 40 mpg in 2011, but that is mediocre for what Europe is doing now. The Detroit 3 execs are out of touch with what is going on.

I agree with the first few points. A year ago I would have been in agreement with the last point, that Pontiac should be a small car performance niche, going after Mazda Speed, Mini, VW GTI. They had the 2.0 turbo, they could have made some sporty small cars, mostly with rear drive and gone for the Fast and Furious crowd. The imports really capitalized on the youth on the west coast, if those 20-somethings stick with their import, that is 50 more years of import buying and a big opportunity missed by GM. However, now that GM is broke, they don't have the resources to reboot Pontiac or make it a performance brand, so fleet sale brand or joining Oldsmobile in the graveyard are the options left.

G6 is a mechanical twin, and had the same radio/hvac console as the Malibu, it is close to a rebadge. It could work for rentals because it looks different than the Malibu, yet would still be cheap to produce. They fleeted the new Malibu at 37% in October (or September, I forget), it should be 5% or less. If Pontiac was going to focus on low volume, they would have never made the G3 or G5 or Torrent, and the G6 would be in GXP trim only. In an ideal world with adequate funding, GM could do a lot of things with its brands, but with 19% market share and facing bankruptcy, they can't support 8 brands or make Pontiac a performance brand or Buick a Luxury brand or Saturn like VW, etc. The money doesn't exist.

The 335i or G37 won't be cross shopped with a G8, I am just stating that the market for performance sedans lies with small to mid-size sedans that also have more luxury. GM is going after a small niche market of people that want 4000+ pounds of large car and 400 hp. This could be the 2009 version of the Mercury Marauder. Why not put the money into a car that can sell in volume and turn profit. The Camaro (or 2010 Mustang) is a far superior buy than the G8. The Camaro interior is probably better, Camaro is faster, should handle better and looks 1000 times better and is cheaper. Only a fool would buy a G8 over a Camaro.

Rental car. And I'm serious, the money isn't there to make a half decent Pontiac, the best strategy is to take previous gen Chevys, rebadge and fleet sale them like crazy. The 2009 G6 is basically a 2004 Malibu rebadge, this is what Pontiac should be. Then Chevy fleet sales can drop to zero, and save resale value.

Rebadging failed in the 80s with the original W-body cars and Cavalier/Cimmarron disaster. Failed in the 90s with the Lumina MPV vans, W-body again, and failed in the 2000s with the Trailblazer/Bravada/Ascender/Rainier/Envoy/9-7x (6 way rebadge might be an all time high) and is still failing with the Torrent, G3, G5, G6. I don't understand how GM can make the same mistake multiple times over, and still repeat it. If GM wants to turn it around, they need big volume from strong vehicles that sell without rebates.

I know, and how well is the Charger SRT8 selling? The 3-series outsells the G8 10 to 1, so which is the better market to be in, compact sport sedan, or full size sport sedan? GM chases consumers in the wrong segments, such as the dying Hummer segment and the 205 inch long front driver for the 70+ crowd DTS and Lucerne. Why not make a 3-series competitor instead, a Malibu hybrid that gets 38 mpg, not 27, a CTS that gets 36 mpg, not 26, a minivan, etc.

$41,000 also buys a base 335i that does 0-60 in 4.9 seconds and gets 17/26 mpg, and doesn't have the interior from a Kia. The G37 sedan (2009 with the 7-speed auto) will be just as fast as the G8 GXP also. This car won't sell, unless rebated down to about $32,000. The GTO was a failure, they repeated every mistake but this time with 4 doors.

We already have the G3, it's called the Aveo. Rebadging only wastes money and resources needed elsewhere. G3, G5 and G6 are not needed. I want to see GM turn it around, but the weak brands are sucking money away from the strong ones, bringing the whole company down.

535xi with auto is 3946 lbs, that is the heaviest awd 5-series built. A 528i xDrive is 3704 lbs, 400 less than the CTS. CTS is overweight. And you feel it if you drive the two back to back.

Pontiac's CAFE is irrelevant, GM's as a whole is all that is measured. The G8 GXP is going to be 14/20 mpg and $40,000 (with destination and gas guzzler tax). The Vette requires premium, since this is the same engine, it should also. G8 sales were around 1,800-2,000 the first couple months it was out but only 1,000 last month. 12,390 so far this year (wasn't for sale in Jan-Feb I think). The M5 couldn't save Pontiac's image at this point, the G8 won't either. Too many years of minivan and Equinox rebadges, rental fleet Grand Prix and G6 and now the econo box G3. I'm not against a compact, but make it with a Turbo 4 and aim it against the Mazda 3Speed, Civic Si or Mini Cooper S. The G8 dashboard would actually be good for such a car, since it is best suited to for the $20-23k price range. If anyone wants to test the G8's build quality, open the door with the window all the way down and then slam the door while keeping an eye on the top of the window. The window will rattle back and forth inside the door. Windows shouldn't rattle when you shut the door. It was a problem with F-body Firebirds a dozen years ago and they have yet to fix it.

Too big to compete in performance with a 3-series. Perfect size to challenge the TL, S80, and ES350 snooze-mobile luxury sedans. The CTS awd is over 4100 pounds, driving it feels almost like an SUV, the weight is very noticeable and I am used to a 3880 pound Aurora. The 5-series is much more quick and agile feeling.

The G3 is embarrassing. Pontiac has little credibility left as it is, the G3 shattered whatever was left. The G8 GXP was a waste of time and money, because the brand image won't support a $40k car (that gets 14 mpg). They are only selling 1,000 or so G8s a month as it is.

But $25 billion is for Ford, Chrysler and GM combined, GM gets $11-13 billion if this thing actually passes. So it buys them one year, if Wagoner is right and they burn $1 billion a month. If they can't stop the cash burn, it only delays the inevitable, and they just wasted $12 billion of tax payer money.

If a Cruze is $30k, gas prices won't matter because no one is going to buy it anyway. They struggle to get $15k for a Cobalt, they'll be lucky to get $18k for a Cruze. (transaction price, not loaded before rebates)

Same, a software update is minor, Cadillac has recalled cars in the past for dumb stuff also. My problem with Cadillac is the CTS is too big (and heavy) for it's price, the DTS, STS, XLR, SRX are all dated and uninspired. And Hyundai's engine is better than the Northstar.