smk4565

Those cars don't arrive for another 2-3 years, Chrysler may not make it that long. If the products are so great and the future looks bright, Cerebus should bail them out, not taxpayers.

No, it would be platform sharing. The Buick Cruze should start at $24,000 (likely a few more grand than a loaded Cruze) Buick Malibu (LaCrosse) priced $28-34,000, above the Malibu LTZ. The Buick Vue/Nox would also be $28-34k. The MKZ and ES350 don't overlap with the Fusion and Camry, Buick needs to follow that model, but focus on small to midsize, right now the baby Buick is longer than an LS460, that doesn't work. Get rid of Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and the product overlap problem is gone. Keep the kappa roadster for Buick. Zeta Buick should be back burner, a Zeta Impala can fill the need for full size car and overlap the LaCrosse in price. If Chevy has 12-15 or so models, Buick has 5 based of Chevy platforms, and Cadillac has 6 models, they'll have 25 or so models, which GM can manage and keep competitive.

I don't think Chrysler has a future because their products are so uncompetitive. They also lag in fuel economy, interiors and reliability. The 300 is old news now and not selling, Jeep still has name recognition, but sales are slow, the Caravan and Ram don't make a company. Cerebus should break up the company and sell it in pieces. Sell the Ram and the factory to Nissan, etc.

Sales don't matter, only profit does. GM has to figure out a way to keep the lights on and make payroll. Bankruptcy is 4 weeks away, anything that isn't essential and unique needs to be cut.

Pontiac might not even be around by the time the Cruze is ready, and they shouldn't get one anyway. There will be a Cruze SS that could be quite good for performance buyers. The Cobalt SS has good performance (3rd place in Car and driver sport compacts), only problem, is that it is a Cobalt. Take away the rental car blandness and match VW in build quality and they are fine there. If they take Delta II (180-182 inch length), make it look elegant and put the 2010 LaCrosse interior in it, they will have a winner. 2.3 DI 4 cylinder can make 200 hp, in a 3300+ pound car that is enough, especially for Buick buyers who are seeking comfort, not 0-60 times. A diesel should be offered also, since the Cruze will need one for Europe anyway, and they can go after the 41 mpg Jetta TDI. Buick's future is going to be in small to midsize premium, I hope they see that.

The 7-series and X6 TT V8 with 400 hp the 5-series gets also. The M5 is likely just a higher boost version to get 500 hp. 113 hp per liter is doable. That engine will save costs which will let them use carbon fiber and aluminum and lower emissions to keep the EU off their back. I believe that is what Edmunds was going for, although kind of dumb.

Buick's badge can't support a $40-48k sedan, and that is Cadillac's range. They need to keep the flagship closer to the Genesis or the MKS price, $35-40,000, low $40s fully loaded. The STS doesn't sell as a Cadillac, turning it into a Buick will make it sell worse. Big cars don't sell well, Buick would be best off making a luxury version of the Cruze for $25-30,000 and a luxury Malibu for $28-35,000. Small premium is a segment that will grow and the Jetta, TSX, and Mini are the only ones in it right now before going to 3-series/C-class prices.

Pontiac may be Solstice and G8 only and the G8 will likely be replaced by an Alpha sedan when that platform is ready.. I could see Pontiac being phased out by 2012 also. The money isn't there to keep them alive. Without a bailout (which 61% of the country and Congress currently opposes) they have to file for bankruptcy in January and probably only Chevy will survive. They have to sell or shut down Hummer, Saab and Saturn ASAP.

Sigma costs more, though it is better. They could do a V6 Zeta car for low $30s to $42k like the Genesis is priced. Sigma or whatever Cadillac goes to in the future has to be exclusive.

Ford can, GM and Chrysler can't. I'd rather see Chrysler fail, that opens up market space for GM and Ford. Otherwise let Cerebus pump money from something else they own into Chrysler. Cerebus is the one that wanted it, let them pay for it.

The 07 model had average sales, so with the new 08 it surged early and is sucking up STS volume. They have sold 54,000 so far this year, 55-60,000 is about what the original did around 2004-2005.

New E-class coming next year, the current model is dated. Plus it starts at $53,000 and the economy is bad.

The M5's V8 is likely 4.4 liters, possibly 4.8, but not 6.2 or 6.3. Same 500 hp, but torque up to 516. We'll find out on the X6 M next year for sure. What will make or brake the next M5 is weight, which isn't a bad strategy. The E36 M3 was never the horsepower king, but it was lightweight and regarded as one of the best handling cars of all time. They didn't put the E63 in here because it is over $90,000 and because of weight, no faster than a C63.

But the LaCrosse and Lucerne don't have those features. My mom is 54 and thinks Buicks are for old people, and wouldn't be caught dead in one. My Grandmother who is 76 though, enjoys her Buick. I stated in the Buick thread that Buick could platform share with Chevy and do a fancier version of the Cruze, Malibu, Nox and Traverse combined with a Zeta sedan and have a lineup that fills the void nicely between Chevy and Cadillac. The potential is there to make some great products, whether or not people will buy them is the question. The Enclave is 13 inches longer and nearly 1,000 pounds heavier than a Lexus RX350, big difference there, some people like big, most prefer midsize.

Body looks very Malibu like, with 5-series wannabe tail lights. I don't mind that though, because I see Buick's future as making a fancy version of the Cruze, Malibu, with the Enclave and Zeta sedan, and a fancy Vue/Equinox if GMC doesn't get one. This will let Buick operate in the $26-40,000 range offering a step up from Chevy, without investing tremendous amounts in R&D. Then Cadillac is all rear drive on it's own platforms, $35k and up.

27, but I don't see any of that as hard to do. The Genesis has a V8, 17 speaker stereo and sun shade, 5-series has sun shades and the billion way seats. Anything Hyundai has, Cadillac should have. The 2010 A6 is aluminum, 5-series has some aluminum in it. The new Fusion gets 38 mpg and has an 8 inch touch screen. If a $200 phone can have touch screen, why not a $25,000 car. It wouldn't be hard to make the CTS and Malibu better if GM wasn't distracted with Saturn, Saab, Hummer, G5s, G3s, Yukons, etc.

Prius sold 8,660 in November compared to 1,000 G8s, 161,000 Prius year to date compared to 14,000 G8s. If it was simply that people couldn't get financing, how is the CTS selling, or the 3-series or any other $30k or more car selling. The G8 was heavily marketed during the NCAA basketball tournament last year, and financing was available in spring and the car didn't sell back then. The G8, regardless of how fast the V8 version is or how well it handles does not sell. Maybe the badge on the hood is the reason to blame.

CTS is easy, build it out of aluminum (at least parts if not all) to cut weight, carbon fiber panels for the CTS-V. 3.6 DI standard, twin turbo V6 (3.0 or 3.6) optional, diesel V6 and 8-speed automatic options, all new DOHC V8 (with turbos for the V). Inside add optional sun shades, 17 speaker, 500+ watt stereo, replace gray plastic with real brushed aluminum, blue tooth, blind spot and lane departure warning, and head-up display. Base price to $50,000. Generally I like the Malibu, but it needs a touch screen navigation system and hard drive for songs, interior materials could be a little softer to the touch, hybrid version that gets 38 mpg, longer warranty, new DI 4-cylinder, 3.0 DI V6 that makes 250 hp, but with better mileage than the 3.6 liter.

Agreed on point 1, Olds was turning around in the late 90s, but it was too late. Buick faces the same dilemma now, even with new product like the Enclave and 2010 LaCrosse, they are a decade behind and it could be too little too late. They need to right-size in 2009, or there might not be a 2010. GM needs $4 billion in December just to stay alive, they have to make big changes fast.

I pulled the prices from chevrolet.com and gmc.com and took the base prices. GMC is going to hang around because they can't kill every brand at once, but they do build redundant product and the Acadia competes with the Enclave and Traverse more than it does the Pilot or Flex. They should keep it, but get rid of the Yukon, and focus on work trucks, maybe make the Acadia a Ridgeline like product as earlier suggested. Buick has an old fogey image, dated platforms and drivetrains, no touch screen nav or blue tooth or technology that younger buyers are interested in. Plus they are all large, the LaCrosse is 1 inch shy of the Aurora. Oldsmobile buyers weren't interested in that type of product, that is why Olds people went to the imports. GM needs massive cost cuts so at least 3 brands have to go, I'd argue 4. Then they need product overhauls, the only way to survive is to build exceptional product. GM has to go beyond what everyone else is doing to restore the shattered image they currently have.

GMCs aren't more money, Sierra is $19,020 base, Silverado is $19,550, Silverado LTZ is $42k, Sierra SLT is $41k. Canyon is $16,905, Colorado is $18,555. The Yukon is $10 less than a Tahoe. The Acadia is more than a Traverse because of more standard equipment. GMC is competition for Chevy, and therefor has to offer products unlike Chevy, or be gone. Buick and Olds did not make identical vehicles like GMC and Chevy do. Olds had more refined DOHC engines, sportier suspensions and more technology than Buick. LaCrosse/Lucerne don't handle as well as Intrigue/Aurora and if you had the DOHC 3.5 or 4.0 you won't want a 3800. If Buick's current lineup was similar to Lincoln or Acura, they may have captured more Olds buyers.

Fuel isn't expensive now and the G8 is not selling. Others cars that get similar mileage sell much better than the G8 (Lucerne, CTS, 5-series, E-class, 300, Charger, DTS, etc). The problem is people that want a sport sedan, don't want a large, heavy car, and the G8 inside and out is designed for Australia, not the USA. The GTO failed because of styling, G8 is a repeated mistake. Despite the positive reviews, no one wants the car. Pontiac can't support a $30k car it seems, brand image is now rebadged rental car. Olds outsold Saturn and Buick, yet they killed Oldsmobile which was over 100 years old, so nothing is untouchable when it comes to killing brands. Saturn has fewer dealers, so it is easier to close them down.

Extra marketing costs money, GM doesn't have money. GMC could do the business to business sales, with very little advertising. People only pick GMC now because they have a choice and can price shop Chevy against GMC. If GMC didn't exist, those buyers would go to Chevy (or other GM brand), because Chevy makes the same vehicle. The alternative is Ford or Toyota, which is rather different from GMC. I just worry that if GMC stays, it will be a brand a of badge jobs and that is what got GM into this mess in the first place. Likewise with Pontiac.

I always hear "GMC makes money" but GM has lost $70 billion over the last 4 years, none of these brands are making money. To me GMC is just competition for Chevy, and if GMC is going to make SUVs one step up from Chevy, isn't that what Buick is for with the Enclave. If GMC stays, it should be medium duty trucks, and commercial/fleet pickups and vans.

GM needed to face disaster to force a change. I knew 2 years ago they needed to shed brands fast, and that the Lambdas were too big, G8 would tank (285 days worth of inventory), and that the Malibu, CTS, Lambdas, etc though improved still had to be better. The Enclave was down over 40% this month, sold only 2,000, CTS was down 48%, sold under 3,000 units. GM once bragged about these being hot models, a year on the market and they are duds. This is the wake up call GM needed, and they'll be better off in the long term because of it. GM is going to go through hell for another year, but they'll be back lean and strong, and can focus on quality, not quantity. If they only have 25-30 models to worry about, they can build the best cars in the world. If they do this right, (basically blow it up and start over) GM will be great again.