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The GLC300 4Matic is faster than XT4 or XT5 and the Lexus RX350, so you don't need to pay extra for enough power to move it. And true we don't know what the price premium will be for AWD, but this is a general issue with EV's in cold climates, batteries degrade faster and AWD is a huge upcharge, so it is a harder sell for an EV in cold climates than it is in California or Florida. I would hope Lyric has the AWD option at launch, I think if they wait to see how the rear drive model sells for a year before green lighting all wheel drive would be a mistake.

But AWD is $2,000 option on and XT5 or XT6. If it is $15k on a Lyriq, that may scare customers away. And that is a probably with any EV. And Mercedes will sell an all wheel drive E300, they don't force you into an AMG E63 to get the all wheel drive model.

I think a big question is how much more for all wheel drive, and whether that requires a lot of other feature add ons, like interior stuff that isn't related to mechanical things. And that price jump to AWD will probably have a big impact on sales, because a lot of SUV buyers will want AWD.

Sure Escalade buyers have money. A better way for me to have phased that would be to say people with a lot of money buy Mercedes, because Mercedes sells more six figure price tag vehicles than any other brand in the world. Cadillac's issue is they haven't been able to replicate the Escalade's success in any other segment. They have put out a lot of mediocre product that tends to fall off the sales chart and disappear. And yet they'll pump money into build E46 3-series clones that no one is buying, rather than putting the Escalade formula more places. I am sure it is coming a a hefty price premium that they don't want to announce now because they want the perception that the Lyriq is competitively priced, which in base trim it pretty much is, although we don't know what features are standard vs how much options will cost or how high the price might go on this thing.

Mercedes buyers have money. The E-class is Mercedes #1 selling car in 2021. They are not a brand that relies on the entry level product and E and GLE are often among their top sellers. GLE has a 3rd row too, up 41%, GLB has a 3rd row up 46%. And the GLE has a bigger share of its segment than the GLC does of its segment.

Escalade is the #1 selling Cadillac in 2021, of course it is all new. XT6 sales up 18% while XT5 is down 2.8%, XT5 still outsells XT6 but that small-mid SUV segment has way more volume. The Enclave is outselling the Envision, the Traverse is outselling the Blazer and Acadia outselling Terrain. So the 3-rows are going strong on those brands. Although I would never buy an SUV, so I don't really care how many seats they have, I am just pointing out what sells and the need for brands to have like 4-5-6 different size SUVs now because consumers are so SUV crazy.

Well the XT6 is terrible, so maybe Lyriq will outsell it by default.

1. Price. 2. XT5 has been on market longer and has more name recognition. 3. The XT6 is terrible compared to rivals in its class.

Mercedes makes a GLS that can seat 7, and probably 6 adults with ease, for the wealthy folk. The G-wagon is more of the personal luxury SUV, keep in mind it is smaller than a GLE. Rolls-Royce is for old people or pro athletes that don't have kids, so they don't care how many it sits. And the average Rolls-Royce owner owns like 20 cars or something, and they can just pay someone to drive their 2nd Rolls-Royce to chauffeur the kids around if they have them.

I never said SUV's need 3-rows, and I didn't say the Lyriq needs 3 rows. But any volume or semi-volume brand needs a 3-row SUV. My other point was that the XT6 will outsell the Lyriq because they are similar price and horsepower, but the XT6 has All wheel drive and a 3rd row, 2 things SUV buyers will be attracted to. The Lyriq being rear drive is almost sales-proof in the northeast and upper midwest. And I imagine all wheel drive will be at minimum a $10k option if not $20k and that will be a tough pill to swallow for people in a dealership with an all wheel drive XT6 sitting there with whatever massive discount of the month GM is offering on it.

Well then Cadillac should just kill off the XT6 and Buick should kill the Enclave if 3-row vehicles are not wanted.

I am not contradicting any prior statement. Balthazar said Lyriq was full size because it had a wheelbase as big as an Escalade, and my point then was the Lyriq isn't a 3-row like the Escalade or other full size SUVs. And then I said Cadillac will eventually make a 3-row electric SUV. Lyriq is a mid-size SUV, a big mid-sizer but still mid-size and it doesn't need a 3rd row. I never said it did, I just said that Cadillac will eventually make a 3-row electric SUV. And if there was no 3rd row demand, then the VW Atlas, Subaru Ascent, Jeep Grand Cherokee XL, Wagoneer, Grand Wagoneer, Telluride and Pallisade all wouldn't exists. Subaru, VW, Jeep, Hyundai and Kia didn't really have 3 row SUVs 5-10 years ago outside of some tiny 3rd rows put into a Santa Fe or that Kia Borrego, but clearly dealers were demanding them. GM has sold millions of Traverse/Acadia/Enclave over the past 10 years, if there was no 3-row demand they would just have sold Equinoxes and Terrains and not needed anything else. Most car buyers over buy, even if they will only use that 3rd row 1 time per year when in-laws visit, people will spend the $10k extra for an Enclave over an Envision or for a Pilot over a CRV and car companies know it and will take advantage of it.

The Lyriq should not have a 3rd row with that design, but I think Cadillac will make a 3-row electric SUV within 3 years of Lyriq going on sale. My data for 3rd row demand comes from the 30+ 3-row SUVs I posted earlier. And Jeep has three 3-row SUVs going on sale within the next year. If there was no 3rd row demand, Jeep wouldn't have invested money on 3 of them, and the XT6 wouldn't exist because it is basically a 3-row XT5, same chassis, same engine, etc.

Honda and Acura are each getting SUVs based on the Lyric also.

I suspect there will be a smaller SUV off same platform for Cadillac, 2 off this platform for GMC, plus the Hummer, and 2 for Chevy to go with the Bolt and perhaps 3 electric SUV for Buick due to China. I could see GM getting 8 more SUV’s out of this platform easily. Plus they’d be fools to not do a Cadillac version of the Hummer for like $150k starting and a $200k V-series.

Lyriq is sized and priced similar to an XT6, similar horsepower but pulling Escalade weight, and rear drive only for now. So question is how well will this sell? No 3rd row either which XT6 has and the XT6 isn’t really a hot seller. I do like that Cadillac is starting with the base model and going up later on. Rather than pull a Tesla and say Model 3 will start at $35k, but then only sell $60k dual motor models for 2 years before ever offering the base model they promised.

I imagine that S-class will go all electric on the next generation in 2028 and EQS will be absorbed into it. Daimler has said they will be carbon neutral by 2039, I can't imagine them going into the 2030s with a gas burning S-class, they will want it to be EV to be the innovation leader of the brand. They have to build dual lines now because there are too many people that won't buy an EV, but regulations force car companies to make EV's and Mercedes wants to convert to all EV by 2039, but you can't just do it overnight, you have to go slow at it to get that EV take rate up. And really the car companies that will be in good shape in the 2030s are the ones that can fund the dual lines now, because if you just stick with gas now, and the market goes 50% EV in 2030, you don't have any sales. This could really hurt companies like Mazda and Nissan for example. Just like companies that were slow to make SUVs got hurt by the changeover from sedan to SUV and had to scramble to catch up. And large product line has always been a Mercedes/Audi/BMW strength, by offering all that choice they don't lose customers when trends shift.

Calling the Model S an EQS competitor is like saying the CT5 is an S-class competitor. Sure all of them are sedans, but the EQS is a full size class bigger than the Model S, it is bigger than a Lexus LS500, bigger than a CT6, bigger than a 7-series. A Model S is roughly CLS size, even the AMG GT 4-door is bigger than a Model S, a Model 3 is roughly C-class size, and you can't compare any Tesla interior to a Mercedes. Also no one knows how long the EQE is, if it is E-class size which you'd think, and priced in the $70-130k range (roughly $10k more than an e-class) then it would line up directly in size and price against the Model S. Also we have seen the base EQS, (rumor that a 90 kWh battery might follow later) and suspicion is that it will be over $100k. A base 6-cylinder rear drive S-class is $109k for 2022, hard to believe EQS is cheaper than that and the $200k AMG and Maybach are coming later. This isn't like Lucid showing the $150k Air top of the line and then working backwards to a $80k version in 2 years, and Hummer is doing the same starting with the top model. EQS is starting with the cheapest model and going up.

Daimler just posted a $5.6 billion profit for the first quarter, profit margin is highest it has been in 14 years. Mercedes set a record in 2020 for China market sales at 640,738 units and are on pace for 696,000 this year, 2 of their 3 all time best sales months in China happened in 2021. The S-class isn't going anywhere, it is still a big profit source, and sedans in general are dying, and Mercedes has the G-wagen and Maybach GLS for high dollar SUV sales, they aren't losing customers, they are just changing which product they buy.

The EQS is a foot longer than a Tesla Model S, also the interiors and luxury features aren't even close. Price isn't that close either, EQS is probably going to be $30k-40k more base and the AMG/Maybach will probably be $40-50k more than a Model S Plaid. The EQE will be sized and priced like a Model S. Cadillac may not do an electric sedan, but they said they are building the Celestiq as a full size sedan. I don't think they really have to make a sedan, they could make Cadillac all SUVs, just like Buick is all SUVs and Chevy is on their way to being all SUVs and the Corvette. Personally, I don't like SUVs, I would never buy an SUV, but that is all manufacturers seem to be putting out and they are killing off sedans, coupes and convertibles left and right.

If there was going to be a 3-row Lyriq it would be there at launch. I would be $1000 to a donut that a 3-row electric Cadillac will come later so they can up sell consumers to a higher price point. Until the Celestiq arrives, Cadillac had no EQS competitor, nor does Tesla and we don’t know what the Celestiq is yet.

Doesn’t matter how much 3rd row seats get used, consumers demand them. Consumers don’t need 400 mile EV range which with 1 charge per day equates to 146,000 miles per year but they want it and pay for it anyway.

And yet a lot of Tahoe/Yukon/Suburban/Escalade, Expedition/Navigator, Telluride, Palisade, Ascent, Traverse, Enclave, XT6, Acadia, GLE, GLS, X5, X7, Q7, LX570, QX80, Sequoia, Land Cruiser, Armada, Atlas, Explorer, Model X, Range Rover, Highlander, Pilot, MDX, GLB, Sienna, Odyssey, Pacifica, Carnival, get sold every year. And Jeep sees more room for 3-rows and has Grand Cherokee, Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer coming. Seems like there is demand for 3-rows, that group must make up 2-3 million units a year and with high margins.

The Lyriq has roughly the same length as a GLE or XT6, but no 3rd row. Mercedes will have a Lyriq size competitor and something bigger. Although like I said, I imagine Cadillac has bigger and smaller BEV’s coming. Wheelbase is also not a good comparison for size as the Lyriq has a longer wheelbase than an Escalade and no one would call the Lyriq bigger than an Escalade.

Lyriq doesn’t have a 3rd row. They need an Escalade sized electric suv, although I am sure that is coming.