smk4565

The just delivered the first Plaid models, fastest 0-60, fastest 1/4 mile of any production car, safest car in the world, infotainment has as much power as a PS5, 187 miles of charge in 15 minutes, faster around Laguna Seca than a McLaren P1 or a Corvette ZR1. I'd say he gave some tangible gain. Sure there are features it doesn't have, and it would be nice if Tesla had more models or if the Model S had more of a change to the body styling, but people are still buying and it's still the fastest car with a lot of tech.

Musk doesn't have a sales problem or a demand problem. If he couldn't get $140k for a Model S, he wouldn't price it that way.

I thought high transaction prices were a good thing? And since there is no negotiation or incentives with Tesla, that is the sale price, plus options of course.

100% they need to keep coming out with updated versions of the existing models, and also more models because consumers like to be able to pick from more than 4 vehicles. And the truck and roadster will help. But there is a reason most car companies have a dozen or so models because they want to appeal to every buyer. Tons of EV competition is coming, but the EV market is growing. EV sales in the USA are like 500k units a year, on a SAR of 17 million or whatever it is. By 2025 EV's might be 4 million units a year, Tesla could still double their volume with all these other entries coming. I think the people that need to be worried are those late to the EV game, or without funds to pump into EV's, small companies like Mazda and Subaru, cash strapped companies like Nissan, not sure what Stellantis is doing, but being run by the French I imagine a green push will be coming, but will they be too late?

I thought it was about average sale price, not base MSRP, because base models doesn't exist? 5 of 6 Cadillacs start under $49k. Only 1 of 4 Tesla's starts under $50k. And yet people want to claim Cadillacs bring more money than Teslas? As if every Cadillac sold is maxed to limit in options, and every competitor is only selling base models with zero option, that isn't happening. Probably like 60-70% of any car's volume is the mid-level trim, the base price is false advertising, like the Jeep Wagoneer that starts are $59,900 but has a $2100 destination charge so really it starts at $62,000 but they don't want to advertise that, and probably the base model isn't even built unless custom ordered so the $3,000 "convenience" package is added on, and now it is $65,000 is the real world cheapest version, but the magazine ad says $59,900. And I just picked that as an example, 100% of car companies to that.

The GLS outsells the GLB, and almost outsold the C-class, but I think the C-class was maybe down to a new model coming, or maybe just no one buys sedans anymore too. You also realize C-class and GLC are priced the same as a Lexus RX or Cadillac XT5, which are the best sellers for the competition. And I looked at my local dealer, they have about 10 or so GLB250's all around $47-49k, the C300s and GLC300s are around 50 to low 50s and obviously the AMG's are more but that is low volume. Mercedes can't be akin to General Motors because Mercedes is 1 brand. GM since its inception has been a group car car companies/brands.

Do the bulk come from cheaper models? Their top 5 sellers in Q1 2021: #1 GLE #2 GLC #3 E-class #4 C-class #5 GLS Those 5 cars are 71.1% of their sales volume, 3 of them have ATP of $75k or higher. And 46.9% of their total sales are models with over $75k ATP.

GLE has a $75k ATP according to iseecars, the E-class has the same price structure so I imagine its the same, and GLE and E are 2 of their top 3-4 sellers. GLS's is $95k and it sells about as well as a GLA that transacts in the high 40s, so average those 2 together and that is about $70k. AMG GT 4 door wasn't around 3-4 years ago, and new G-wagon since then that has sold well, so that should offset the A-class. $64k average seems to make sense. S-class is down now due to the changeover and there aren't any to sell since Europe got the first production run of the new S-class but it is arriving here this summer.

Well Daimler only has 1 car brand. They don't have Smart car in the USA anymore.

Per Kelly blue book, the Automotive ATP's and you can see who is in first. And Mercedes is at 2% in the USA because they aren't a volume brand. Although I bet Mercedes has a higher market share in Europe than GM.

4.4 Billion Euros is $5.36 Billion, because math. And Daimler numbers are all together, much like GM doesn't split out Cadillac brand profit, they all get lumped in. Once Daimler Trucks becomes one company, and Mercedes-Benz becomes another, then maybe it will be very easy to see Mercedes numbers. Also Asia is Mercedes biggest market, you can't just say drop their #1 market and they aren't that much. Also Mercedes outsells Cadillac 2 to 1 in Cadillac's home market. How are Cadillac sales going in Europe on Mercedes home turf? A better use of ATP is within segment, so for example the GLS has a $95,807 ATP for Q1 of 2021, and the Escalade's is $99,396. Escalade sells in 20.2 days on average, GLS 19.9 days, so those 2 are very close. And better to argue head to head in a segment than brand to brand, when brands have a wide difference in product usually. Plus I don't know why brand ATP matters, Maserati has a fantastic ATP, probably over $90,000 and they might not even be around in 5 years, and they might not even turn a profit.

The Model S Plaid is still crazy fast, the Model S Ludicrous mode was like 3 years ago and that is still crazy fast. Tesla does have the Roadster coming, and that has the Space X rocket package that can make it do 0-60 in 1.1 seconds. The Model S Plaid is also faster around Laguna Seca than a McLaren P1, which is again crazy for a sedan. I'd love for AMG or Porsche to make a car faster than the Model S, but I actually don't see it happening. Perhaps though they can beat them in ride, handling, steering and braking and produce better lap times on a track, but in a straight line, I am not sure anyone is beating Tesla, and for sure not with the Space X package if that does what Elon says it will.

And Cadillac didn't outsell Tesla and Mercedes why? If Tesla is so bad, why do they outsell Lexus, Mercedes, BMW and Audi in the USA? Tesla outsold Dodge too, a brand with much cheaper cars. Mercedes sold 2.087 million cars in a "very bad year", I bet a lot of luxury car companies wish their bad years were 2 million units sold. Daimler made $5.36 billion in profit Q1 of 2021, compared to $3 billion for GM and $3.2 billion for Ford. $7 billion for Toyota, but they are also a bigger company than all those other guys.

That is a USA figure, for passenger vehicles. $64,900 for Mercedes. That does not include Freightliner or Western Star. The site simply broke down automotive ATP by corporation, Diamler, BMW, Toyota, GM, etc. But I don't know why ATP matters for a brand, Porsche's ATP is $94,000, Land Rover's is $78,000, Jaguar's is $63,000. So what? It just means they have small lineups of expensive cars, with no lower priced cars. And $64,900 might not even include the Sprinter and Metris, maybe that is just their cars, it didn't specify, but the Mercedes sales chart always lists both, so I assume ATP would include both, just like I'd assume Ford commercial was included in Ford's number. I don't really care about ATP for a brand, but the Metris has the lowest ATP of any Mercedes and Sprinter is probably 4th lowest, including them HURTS the Mercedes ATP. And even with commercial bands dragging them down, they are still higher than BMW, Lexus, Cadillac, Audi.

$64,900 with Metris and Sprinter included, as they too are Mercedes.

Daimler's ATP in April was $64,900 which is #1, and if you subtract the Metris and Sprinter that number is probably more like $70,000 for their passenger cars. You were the one that didn't want to count the Vans division sales since it gives them an extra 50,000 units and thus makes them #1 in sales. And good thing they make vans with e-commerce and home delivery hitting all time highs, their van sales were up like 50% last year. And good thing they make an A-class for people that want a small car and can't afford a car that is $75k, which is most people. I'd rather have the A-class and GLA in the lineup than not, because them being there isn't taking away the S-class or G-wagen, they didn't kill off some other product and instead put the A-class in instead. (and yeah they are killing some convertibles and stuff like the S-class coupe, but that is market trends, people don't buy cars like that anymore, they want crossover, crossover, crossover, which sucks IMO)

Yeah and Amazon went nearly 20 years without turning profit or barely turning any profit, and where are they now, vs Sears/K-Mart, JC Penny, Macys, etc. Tesla doesn't really need to turn profit, they need growth, which takes money. Their stock price is not based on profit today, it is based on what people think Tesla profit will be 5-10 years from now. Tesla global sales Q1 2021 are up 80% over Q1 2020, so they seem to still be growing along. And sure, GM is fine, they have a good business in China and USA. Although it seems like GM is going to move away from cars like Ford did, which maybe that helps profitability, but probably means selling less cars, and less affordable cars. Could be good for the bottom line, not so good for consumer choice.

Tesla sales in 2020 up 50% Ford sales in 2020 down 16.1% GM sales in 2020 down 11.8% Toyota sales in 2020 down 11.3% Tesla is doing just fine.

Daimler is Mercedes cars and vans, those are US market numbers, and since the vans are cheaper than the cars, that would only drop their average. Much like BMW has Mini Cooper dragging down their average. Mercedes and BMW both have higher averages than Cadillac, both sell way more than Cadillac. ATP as I have said many times doesn't really matter that much, because all it measures is how well your low end cars sell vs your top end cars. If Chevrolet stopped selling all cars except Corvette, they could have a $75,000 ATP. But then 100% of Chevrolet dealers would go out of business. So who really cares that the brand ATP is? What matters is how much margin you can get in a given segment or on a given car. Why does Tesla outsell Cadillac if Tesla is so bad? The point was made that GM and Ford have superior supply chains and logistics than Tesla. Yet it is GM and Ford suffering on supply chain right now, not Tesla. Tesla has its own manufacturing issues, but their supply chain is holding up better than others.

The break down is good, but making EV a segment doesn't make sense then you have a Leaf and Bolt with a Porsche Taycan, like putting a Miata and a 911 together and saying they are both in the 2-door car segment. What would be interesting to see is like Model 3 ATP vs CT4, 3-series, C-class, etc, other cars of similar size. Or Model Y against other small crossovers like an Acura RDXor Lincoln Corsair, or Volvo XC60, those are all about the same size.

Maybe the traditional OEM's will catch up and beat them. But is Tesla outselling all those other luxury brands only because there are people that will by an EV and not consider anything else, or because people think Tesla makes a better car and people prefer their car to the other guys? Once there are dozens of EV's out there, then we'll know. Although I disagree on having a mouth piece owner in charge compared to one of these care-takers of the thrown appointed by the board. Because guys like Elon, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, etc. those companies grew huge because they have the visionary inventor and marketer in charge. Jim Farley or Mary Barra (and no offense to them) could never start a company from scratch, or take some small company and blow it up into a global power. They are care takers, there must to maintain market share, they aren't visionaries that will come up with an idea or product and revolutionize an industry, like an Amazon, Facebook or Apple have done.

And yet now a CLA costs more than Cadillac's most expensive sedan, yikes! But I do agree that Cadillac should be more up market, they should have made XT5 and XT6 on rear drive platforms, offered that Blackwing V8 in them. And they totally botched their sedan lineup over the past 10 years, which is why it is basically nothing now. Too late to fix all that with gas engine cars, but when they go to EV, that is their chance to re-boot, and XT4 and XT5 could be killed off and replaced with a small electric SUV, and CT5 and CT4 can be killed off and replaced with an EV sedan and both can start around $50k and go up to like 80k or something. Then you have no sub-$50k Cadillac even available. And they still need to go above the Escalade in price, and maybe that Celestiq will be that.

Tesla has more volume than Cadillac, thus generates more revenue. The Model 3 outsells CT4/CT5 probably like 10 to 1, so of course Tesla's ATP is lower than Cadillacs. Cadillac has a good ATP because the CT4 has dismal sales and the CT5 and XT4 don't sell well for their class. If those sold at class average rates, it would drag down the average that the Escalade and XT6 are lifting up. Cadillac could also kill everything except the Escalade and sell only 1 product and get an $90k ATP, but I am not sure that is a good business model. Because volume and revenue. And I think Elon has a "Tesla for every person and every purpose" sort of mentality, which is why he sees need for a self driving semi-truck, a 200k sports car, a $30k compact car.

I got the April 2021 ATP's: Daimler $64,900 BMW Group $57,777 Tesla $50,705 Volvo $50,514 Ford $46,992 Stellantis $46,885 GM $46,800 VW Group $45,649 (includes, Audi, Porsche, etc) And the industry average was $40,476 which everyone else was below. So Tesla is 3rd in ATP (although JLR didn't have data on the list, I assume they are over $50k). So yes Tesla is only a few thousand higher, but it it still 3rd, or 4th assuming JLR is above them. And Tesla has the Cybertruck that will mostly be over $50k, and the low volume 200k Roadster coming and the Model S plaid which maybe they sold some in April, but they didn't deliver them, so I don't know how that works. Tesla did have a 10% drop in ATP from 2020, they were over $57,000 a year ago, but I imagine more lower priced Model 3's are available now than were last year. BMW was down 3%, Daimler up 1%, so Tesla was 3rd in ATP a year ago as well, it was the same order for the top 4 last year. Ford who can't build the F150 and GM who can't build the Corvette due to supplier issues are the poster children for logistics? F150 sales were down 30% in May because of supplier issues. But yes Tesla needs to get things together, but they seem to be improving at that.

Telsa's market share in 2019 was 1% of the US market, at the end of 2020 they were at 1.99%. of the US market, so they doubled their overall market share. No one else is growing that fast. Telsa sales were up 50% in 2020 when most automakers were down, Ford was down 16.1% in 2020 for example.