smk4565

The Northstar is super old though, if they put money into it or came up with a new DOHC V8 it would be a different story. When the Northstar came out in 1992 it was making 300 hp. The LT1 5.7 liter of the day was making 250-260 hp, except for the Corvette that got a 300 hp version in the early 90s. The pushrod just doesn't fit Cadillac, and it won't sell in Europe. Cadillac will always be a North American brand unless they build a world car. Cadillac still builds cars with a 60s muscle car mentality. And the new M5 has 570-600 hp out of a 4.4 liter DOHC, and the Ferrari 458 Italia makes 550 hp out of a naturally aspirated V8. CTS-V could fit a modern DOHC V8 I'm sure, GM just doesn't have one, so it gets the LS engine by default.

Ask that to all the people that buy an F150 Ecoboost this year instead of a Ram or Silverado with big ol' fashion displacement.

I've seen it before, the old CTS and Grand Prix had that orange color too. I don't know if they still offer it, I rarely ever see it.

The last time a compact Cadillac had a pushrod was.....

A Northstar fits in the STS, it would probably fit in a CTS. Heck, Mercedes gets a V12 into an SL roadster, I don't see why a small DOHC V8 wouldn't fit in the CTS. And max displacement doesn't have much to do with it, it is about refinement, noise and vibration. The pushrod 4 died, the pushrod V6 is hanging on by a thread in the Impala and soon to be deceased Lucerne, by 2012, the pushrod V6 should be dead too. DOHC is better in 4's, better in 6's, better in 8's. If you took the 10 fastest pushrod powered cars and put them against the 10 fastest DOHC cars, I'll take the DOHC team any day of the week. Give me the Veyron, McLaren F1, Koenigsegg, Jag XJ220, Enzo, Murcielago, Zonda, 911 Turbo, etc compared to the Corvette ZR1, Viper, Camaro SS, CTS-V, Challenger and 300C.

If Cadillac were smart (and that is a big IF) they should make the ATS-V a twin-supercharged V6 (I'd prefer 3.6 - 4.0 liter V8, but that ain't gonna happen) combined to a lithium-polymer battery hybrid system with an 8-speed automatic. No one else builds that, and 28 mpg combined is probably doable out of such a powertrain, and it would make enough horsepower to propel the car from 0-60 in 4.5 seconds or less. Cadillac should build a "green" performance sedan, and get it first before everyone else does it and they are late to the party, again. That is where the market is going to go.

I'm not saying make it expensive just for the sake of doing it, I am saying don't design the car on a shoe-string budget knowing you are going to sell at bargain basement prices. A loaded V6 ATS should be nearing $45,000, a loaded LaCrosse is near $40k, a loaded CTS about $50k. The ATS interior/features should be on par with the current CTS and the CTS has to move upward some. My worry is you want the ATS-V to basically take the drive train out of the Corvette, and sell it for less than a Corvette. The Corvette interior is already stripped down, the ATS can't be cheaper than that thing.

For every pushrod fan, why is there not a 3900 pushrod V6 in the Regal, instead of a 2.0 Turbo. If the pushrod is so light, easy to package, fuel efficient, powerful, etc, why is it gone from mainstream GM sedans except for the very dated Lucerne and Impala? The pushrod's days are numbered.

Reviews I have seen of the Equus do state how the dash materials are not on the same level of a Benz or BMW, and how handling is not as good as a 7-series, but the features list on the Equus is very impressive and unmatched at that price. I don't see heated/cooled/messaging/reclining seats and a refrigerator in any Cadillac. And Hyundai's competition is not Mercedes, it is Chevy, Ford, Honda and Toyota. Hyundai has the Equus on sale here to make a statement so they can sell more Sonatas and Tuscons. The difference between the SRX and the Cayenne or X5, is the BMW and Porsche are rear drive and offer 500 hp, not the engine out of an Equinox. DTS will be gone, but the XTS is the same car. It may have awd, but it is a car for seniors. And perhaps even worse, is the DTS had a platform made for big/premium sedans and the Northstar V8 (both of which are now dated) that gave it some exclusivity from the rest of GM sedans in the 2000-2010 era. Now the XTS is basically the platform/engine you get in a Malibu or LaCrosse. This is why the Acura RL and Lincoln MKS are sales duds, we all know it's an Accord or Taurus for $45,000.

Two good points are made here. Cadillac and "entry level" is the first. Cadillac is an entry level luxury brand. If the ATS-v is $45,000 it will be full of compromises, just like a Chrysler 300C is. Performance cred is the next point, how much do you have when your top 2 volume cars are a soccer-mom crossover and a land barge for senior citizens. This is why Lexus has no performance credibility, and went out and made the LF-A in hopes to find some. And Lexus still has no performance cred. Cadillac has to figure out what it wants to be, if they are a performance-luxury brand go all out at it. If they want to build big, soft riding cars like they did in the past, then fine, do that and build snooze-mobiles to meet or exceed Lexus. But you can't do both and not know what to do and change your mind every 5 years as to what you are.

BMW sold more M models in 2008 and 2009 than they did at any point in the past, the M3 is expensive but they still sell them at a good rate. Also, an E36 M3 had 240 hp and dd 0-60 in 5.6 seconds, a 335i has 300 hp and 0-60 in 4.9 seconds. So a mid-line 3-series today out performs an M3 of a few years ago. If $60k is the wrong price point, what about the Corvette then? The Corvette bases at $50k, and an LT3 or Gran Sport can easily hit over $60,000. That car is comparable to an M3 in performance, but doesn't have a back seat and has a bargain basement interior. So an ATS-V with Corvette level power and far better interior should sell for $10-15,000 less than a Corvette? You also bring up Cadillac's biggest problem. You mention that if a CTS-V was $75-80,0000 it would not sell. Yet Mercedes and BMW can charge $90,000 for their sedans that are slower than a CTS-V. Cadillac is a SECOND TIER luxury brand for this very reason. Cadillac cuts corners all over the place on their cars (the "old GM" influence) they build an inferior product, and they sell it for an inferior price. What annoys me most about Cadillac is they act like and claim to be a tier one brand, but they aren't. Cadillac is no better than Acura, Lincoln, Volvo or the Luxury Hyundais.

Thinking like that is why Cadillac is a bargain basement luxury brand. Lack of guts to go after the Germans, in price, not horsepower.

As far as the ATS-V getting the Corvette engine, I think that is what they will do since it is easiest and cheapest. However, is a car with essentially the same engine in a $35,000 Camaro going to sell for $65,000? Probably not. The new Dodge Challenger is getting a 6.4 liter pushrod with 475 hp, that doesn't seem like the sort of market Cadillac should be going after.

Rumor is that the next generation CTS will be on Alpha (long version) and that the CTS will get a 4-cylinder as the base engine. V6 will become optional. Sigma goes back to 2002, and Zeta seems too heavy to go forward with, so I think those platforms are toast. I don't see why Buick needs an Alpha car, it would likely be smaller than a Regal, but more expensive than a LaCrosse? Way too much overlap with other GM products.

Well Mercedes has a new 4.7 liter DOHC turbo V8 that makes 435 hp and 516 lb-ft of torque while offering a claimed 22% fuel economy gain over the outgoing 5.5 liter. The GM V8 may be competitive, but the ceiling is much higher on a DOHC engine. That is why pushrod 4 and 6 cylinders died off, there comes a point when pushrod can't compete anymore because DOHC advances faster.

The engines seem likely, GM often doesn't release an all new engine on an all new model. So I'd expect the 2.0 Turbo 4 out of the Regal/Solstice, the CTS's current 3.6 V6 and a Camaro/Corvette 6.2 V8. I don't think the weights will be that low though, 3500 lbs is ambitious for a GM product. Which means I don't see 32 mpg highway happening either, the 2.0T in the Solstice (a small, light car) got 26 mpg, although it does get 30 mpg highway in the Regal. I think 30 is tops in the ATS, more likely 29 mpg.

A parallel can be drawn to the 3800. GM kept the 3800 around in the early to mid 2000s simply because it was cheaper to do so. Even though better technology existed out there, the way GM made money was by putting the bare minimum into cars and cashing in on Hummers and GMT900s. That worked for about 5 years, then it all came crashing down. What they are doing with the small block V8 is similar. They keep milking along the existing LS-series engines even though there is better technology out there. They do this to save money. I am aware that while bankrupt money needs to be saved, but at some point they have to bring out something new. The rest of the market is not sitting still (well Chrysler is), pushing the LS series V8 along for another 10 years with minor updates is going to get GM left behind the curve, again.

But you don't need a DOHC of equal displacement to get the power, so with the smaller engine, it is smoother and quieter. And look at the interior noise levels of GM's pushrod powered cars, none are all that quiet. Especially not when compared to a Hyundai Genesis or Lexus LS. The Ford 5.0 V8 gets better mileage than the GM 6.2 liter V8 and the Ford doesn't have DI either. I think the car buying public does know the difference when they drive both. They may not know how to explain it, but I think they can tell the difference. Look at how many customers GM lost in the mid-size car segment with the 3800 V6 and 3.1 and 3.4 pushrod V6s they used in the late 90s and early 2000s. Compared to the Japanese DOHC engines, the GM engines weren't as smooth or refined, and customers noticed that. The Japanese had smaller, smoother, equally powerful, more fuel efficient engines, and that showed in the 1990s and 2000s as half of GM's customer base left.

BMW has an 8-speed now. The 7-series, 5-series, and 2011 X3 all have it. I believe the next 3-series will have it as well. And yes, Hyundai and Chrysler are expected to have one some time next year. 8-speed will probably be the norm in $35k and up in a couple years.

And where does this engine exist? Because when they put a 6.2 liter V8 into the G8 GXP, they got a 415 hp engine getting 13/20 mpg. Direct injection doesn't add 5 mpg. Bentley's engine is a dinosaur in a tank-like car with loads of sound insulation. Plus Bentley's old world customer base is used to it. What Bentley and Rolls do isn't really applicable to anyone else. I think you have to build what the market demands, and the luxury car market looks for DOHC, whether it be V6 or V8, and they look for at least a 6-speed, now even a 7 or 8 speed. If Cadillac wants to go against the Germans,Jaguar and the Lexus LS460 and Infiniti M56, that is the price of admission.

All cars are getting expensive, especially as they all become more and more equipped with 8 airbags and electronic gizmos. But that being said, $26,000 for a Cruze LTZ is nuts. The car isn't that luxurious, and isn't very quick. A Sonata Limited is $25,295 and that is a pretty well equipped midsize. Cruze will need rebates that those prices, and needing sales to Avis or $3500 cash back on the hood has often doomed other GM small cars in the past.

Not to mention the 4.3 liter and 5.7 liter diesel engines of the 80s that were based on the gas pushrod block and those had terrible reliability. To do it, they have to do it right, and start from scratch, can't just retro-fit an existing engine block. That's like building a 3-series competitor out of a Cavalier. (had to get a Cimarron reference in there)

Mercedes had all that stuff in the 90s, I am just saying that the B-class isn't like a Golf or Honda Fit, it is equipped more like a loaded Regal or Accord, perhaps even more so. Mercedes is #1 about engineering and being meticulous when building a car. If/when the B-class gets here, it would be somewhat innovative to see that sort of features list on a car sized against the Aveo and Fit. Since car companies are all about averages, Mercedes obviously wants to keep making big power V8s and V12s, so they need some 4-cylinder diesel small cars to compensate. I'd rather see a car company do that than to just kill off their V8s. That is why to me, it makes no sense to waste CAFE points if you will, on a high powered Buick. Put the high power stuff at Cadillac and Corvette where it matters.

I agree. Merceds would obviously love to S-class sedans for $110,000 all day long but they can't survive just doing that. Not only is there the green agenda, but also the state of the economy here and in Europe. So they need something that gets 40 mpg and moderately priced, the B-class is the answer. And just because M-B makes a small front driver, doesn't mean it won't be engineered great and have more technology than anything else in its class. And M-B isn't giving in either, they will still have their V12s, in fact the next generation Maybachs will have an increase in power and torque is expected to rise to 850 lb-ft. Mercedes is being smart by covering all ends of the market. GM is doing the same thing by constantly downsizing engines. Look at the Equinox/Terrain, Regal, LaCrosse, and Malibu, all vehicles that 5 years ago had a standard V6, now all have a 2.4 liter 4-cylinder. Cadillac has replaced the Northstar V8 with a 3.6 liter V6. The F150 gets a V6 this year, and I would bet the Silverado does soon as well. Everyone is downsizing engines. Since this is a Regal thread, if they do a Regal GS, I suspect it will be very short lived because come 2015, GM will need loads of 4-cylinders to meet CAFE.

Mercedes makes 2 FWD cars, the A-class and B-class both off the same platform, and the B-class is just an enlarged, slightly nicer A-class. These are the only front drivers they have made, unless you count the Smart cars. And the B-class has things like rainsense wipers, headlights that turn when the car turns, parking sensors, and multicontour seats with air pockets like the STS used to have. That stuff isn't found on a Cruze or Civic, so for it's segment, the B-class is still about innovation and engineering. Mercedes does built sport sedans, but that isn't all they do. Every Mercedes product is about engineering and innovation, only some are about power and performance. And Mercedes doesn't have a mass-market volume brand like VW or Chevy below them to sell Golfs and Cobalts to boost their overall fuel economy, Mercedes brand has to sell it all. And how is Mercedes going down market? Look at the average transaction price for what they sell, compared to any one else. Even if they sell the B-class here and charge $25-30,000 for it, that is their Aveo. They are getting 200% the price that comparably sized cars sell for now. I think you must be confused about GM's product line and Mercedes'. Mercedes has 4 SUV's (one being a $100k super low volume tank), and a grand tourer/crossover or whatever the R-class is. Even if you call that 5, GM had over 5 SUVs just on the GMT360 platform, and Lambda is becoming the new GMT360, everyone gets one until the day your brand closes up. Mercedes is doing well right now, their plan is working. It works because they are consistent throughout their lineup and they've been consistent with their plan for the past 50 years. That is what GM has to do with their brands, focused brands that are consistent with their plan.