smk4565

[quote name='Oldsmoboi' timestamp='1310961444' post='668413' I think the MKZ is an excellent suggestion. He already likes the Fusion, so upselling to the Lincoln wouldn't be hard. Completely disagree about the Saab interior, I like the Regal's much better, and so does he. The thing about the MKZ is it isn't much of an upsell. On the used car market, the MKZ is priced fairly close to a loaded Fusion or Milan. Fusions on average run a few thousand cheaper, but most of them have 4-cylinder, FWD, cloth, etc. With the MKZ it is easy, they pretty must have all the equipment standard, and it seems like 60% of them are AWD. There was also less styling change at the 2010 refresh, so the 2008 MKZ looks more current than the 2008 Fusion. The other sensible option for economical AWD is Subaru. On the SRX, they would fit the price target, but they are also like 195 inches long and even the V6 isn't that efficient in there. The running costs on that would be higher than on an AWD sedan. I am disappointed in this thread however, no one has brought up the Pontiac Aztec and all wheel drive motoring doesn't get any more exciting than that.

They don't need a big line up, 3 car lines (with sedans, coupes, wagons, convertible mixed in) and 2 SUV lines all done well is what they need. But they have to have eery model be a home run, so that they can sell them anywhere in the world with minor tweaking for each market. The Germans already have a huge lead in China also. Cadillac sells like 20-30,000 cars a year there, Audi sells 200,000. Cadillac hardly has solid footing in the USA, they are 4th in sales, but Audi, Acura, Lincoln and Infiniti aren't too far behind them. Although 2 of those brands I don't see catching up any time soon. In foreign markets Cadillac has no footing, they need to get in to the emerging places before those countries become super loyal to German brands too.

You can. I saw a CTS with AWD and direct injection for $23k. I think it had 50-60k miles though, but I seem to remember a less well equipped CTS with fewer miles for the same price.

We're searching for a car due to reliability problems in our Honda and you're recommending an X-Type and a 9-3? Our CR-V has a metal antenna now... I don't think he'd care. I certainly don't. Well that is why I originally thought MKZ, because it has all the desired features, it is ranked near the top in JD Power quality and reliability, and the MKZ is one of the most fuel efficient AWD V6's out there. The MKZ meets all of the previously stated criteria and is available in any color for near $20,000. With all the people here that like the Regal GS at near $40k, and are clamoring for the Insignia OPC with the turbo V6, I thought the Saab would get more love. It has the Haldex AWD, the 2.8 turbo V6 from the SRX and Opel, better looks than the Buick, better interior than the Buick, half the price of the Buick. That Saab has what all the Regal and SRX lovers like at half the price. But at the same time, I wouldn't buy a Saab because it will break down all the time. There are Audi A4's for $20k. Personally not my sort of car, but my mom has an 07 with over 100k miles on it, no major repairs, in fact I don't think anything has broken on it. And the 2.0 will average 25 mpg even with our hills and traffic.

Well as much as I like this X-type for under $19,000: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=302720252&dealer_id=64481301&car_year=2007&systime=&doors=&model=9-3&search_lang=en&start_year=2006&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=50&min_price=&rdm=1310952683837&drive=&marketZipError=false&advanced=&fuel=&keywords_display=&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2009&make3=&showZipError=n&make2=JAG&certified=&engine=&dma=PITTSBURGH_NO&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&color=&address=15202&sort_type=priceDESC&model2=XTYPE&max_price=25000&make=SAAB&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=8&standard=false THE SEARCH ENDS HERE! I personally wouldn't buy it (because it almost certainly will break down) but the fanboys will love it. http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=303243117&dealer_id=566566&car_year=2008&model=9-3&pager.offset=0&search_lang=en&start_year=2006&search_type=both&distance=50&rdm=1310952683837&marketZipError=false&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2009&showZipError=n&make2=JAG&dma=PITTSBURGH_NO&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&first_record=1&default_sort=priceDESC&address=15202&sort_type=priceDESC&model2=XTYPE&max_price=25000&make=SAAB&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=8&standard=false I can see the point of an AWD Hyundai because their new cars are quite good, have good value and you get the mega warranty. But $26k for a Compass? I sat in one of those at the auto show, the interior is produced by Rubbermaid and it has a metal antenna from the 80s. $28k for a Tiguan that looks like a roller skate? I think not. Chrysler products will likely break and depreciate like a rock thrown off a cliff and the Taurus is massive. My 3 selections are hard to beat.

2008 Lincoln MKZ, heated AND cooled seats. $21,000. http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=302439046&dealer_id=566807&car_year=2008&model=MKZ&pager.offset=50&search_lang=en&start_year=2006&scarid=302439046&search_type=both&distance=50&rdm=1310952084582&marketZipError=false&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2009&showZipError=y&make2=CAD&dma=PITTSBURGH_NO&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&first_record=51&default_sort=priceDESC&address=15202&sort_type=priceDESC&model2=CTS&max_price=25000&make=LINC&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=23&standard=false

Can it be a used car? If so how old? 2006 Mercedes E350 4Matic with 41k miles for $22k. Hits all the criteria except for the fuel economy part.

Jobs and investment is good for Flint which could really use it. But GM already has too much inventory of full size trucks right now. It isn't like they need extra capacity for GMT900s. Unless this is for medium duty truck chassis for dump trucks, school busses, etc.

Lucerne has 108 cubic feet of interior room. The Genesis, Equus and S-class are all 109 cu ft. Now that the Town Car is dead, those cars are about as big as it gets. Unless you look at a Rolls or Maybach which is more limo than car. But isn't something like 90% of driving done with only one person in the car? Small and mid-size cars are roomier than ever now also, the huge car has been on decline for years. I think for the better also, because small cars 10-15 years ago offered practically no equipment at all, now you have power everything, heated leather seats, sat-nav, even self parking aides in compact cars.

Agreed on being profitable in all markets. Cadillac may never be a big seller in Europe, but 1,000 cars a year isn't going to cut it, at that level they are probably losing money. Cadillac outside of the USA is sort of what Saab is in the USA, and that isn't going to work. I think they need to get to where 50% of their sales are from outside the USA and get to 350-400k annual global sales volume. But everything has to be right, if they make a good ATS, then blow the flagship totally, they lose credibility. Any negatives in their product line or marketing is going to drag down or cancel out their positives.

I believe that Cadillac's strategy of 2015-2020 should be to go all in. They can't hold back, or do things when they get around to it, or do what the think is "good enough." Every car they design has to be able to sell internationally as well as domestically. So they need DOHC, diesels, some form of hybrid assist, etc. Americans may not expect a diesel, but in Europe (and China) they do. Cadillac needs the ATS, CTS and whatever the s-class fighter is with the ability to sell all over the world. The American market is saturated, if Cadillac sits here and doesn't go global they become Lincoln and Lincoln is headed to the grave. I also think Cadillac needs to get some outside help. Cadillac doesn't fully understand the luxury car market, so they roll out cars like the XLR-V or STS-V that have big price tags and big horsepower and lousy trim and fit and finish. Or you'll see the leatherette wrapped dash with stitching that looks nice, and then the door panel is cheap plastic. Do they think a customer will only look at 50% of the interior? Their cars, their lineup, their brand image is all inconsistent. They have to solve all this at once to make an impact.

Lucerne is quite big, my Aurora is bigger than I wish it was, and the Lucerne is another 5-6 inches longer than that. Although for as it is on the outside, they don't make the best of that space on the inside. The Lucerne is bigger than needed, and that is probably why it is dead now. The Lacrosse even looks big, because it has a high and bulky look to it, likewise with the Taurus/MKS. These huge FWD sedans are a dying breed.

I don't buy that diesels are noisy or slow. A BMW 335d at 70 mph cruise is quieter than a CTS or LaCrosse, it is even more quiet than a 335i. The 335d does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, that matches or beats any CTS 3.6 times I've seen. Yes it is a bit heavier and slower than a 335i, but it also get 36 mpg. I am not necessarily saying that diesel is better than gasoline, I am saying that Cadillac should offer both of them.

E350 Bluetec is $1,500 more than the gas version. The gas car is 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, the diesel is 6.7 seconds. The diesel gets 10 miles per gallon better on the high way though. 10 mpg difference is significant. Sure most customers won't want a diesel, but some will and I think it smart to appeal to as many people as possible. Cadillac has to do something, they can't just offer V6s when Lincoln, Lexus and Infiniti have hybrids and the Germans have diesels. Cadillac has to have a high mileage option. I would say that come 2015 both the ATS and CTS should have a powertrain option that gets 35 mpg.

I'll take it in a smaller car also. I think Mercedes is crazy for not putting the diesel V6 in the C-class. If it gets 34 mpg in the E-class, I bet they could get 36 in the C-class. And that engine has 400 lb-ft of torque now, but for 2012 there is an upgraded version with 455 lb-ft (240 hp) for the M-class and S-class. Imagine a C350 bluetec with AMG level torque and 36 mpg. Likewise an ATS with more torque than a Corvette or Escalade that gets compact car fuel economy. I'd put a diesel on the ATS, CTS, and full size rwd sedan if Cadillac ever gets one. BMW needs a 535d to go with the 335d also.

I think diesel is a good idea. I go past gas stations all the time that offer it. I probably drive past 5 gas stations a day, even if only 2-3 have diesel that it isn't like I have to search hard or go out of my way. And if you tell me I can get 35 mpg and 450 lb-ft of torque, sign me up for that. Plus no one is saying Cadillac should offer only diesel, there will still be lots of gas engines for those that are afraid of it. I think offering consumers choice is always a good idea.

A CTS-V at 12/18 is not more efficient than an S63 AMG with 563 hp, 664 lb-ft and 15/22 mpg. And the S63 weighs over 4800 lbs. The 2012 E63 AMG is estimated to also be 15/22 mpg, although it only weighs 4,050 lbs, so you'd think with 800 less pounds to pull it should do better than the S-class, but ratings are funny sometimes.

On some Cadillacs you get more, but I am not talking CTS-V vs a Camaro. I am talking about SRX and XTS compared to a LaCrosse or Equinox. SRX is based on Malibu and Equniox platform and suspension and XTS going to share a platform with the LaCrosse and next Impala. To me this is a slippery slope toward Lincoln/Acura territory. Cadillac isn't as bad as those 2, but I fear that they could head that direction. The Camry and ES350 are both on a 109.3 inch wheel base. The only difference is the ES is 191 inches long compared to 189 for the Camry. The Avalon is on a 111 inch wheelbase with a 198 inch length. I know the ES is the best selling Lexus sedan, but it doesn't sell as well as it used to. The ES still sells now, but it is selling to 70 year olds, just like the Lucerne and DTS. Sales of those cars have declined recently, and by 2020, those buyers will not be in the market. Lexus made 2 great moves in the USA in the 1990s. One was having quality/reliability that beat Mercedes (in the early 90s Mercedes was the standard) at a lower price, this got them some import luxury buyers to switch over. Secondly, they built a better Buick/Cadillac/Lincoln than Detroit did. The baby boomers wanting soft, refined luxury, found a better version from Lexus than they could get from Cadillac or Buick, and as an added bonus they weren't driving the car their parents drove. Cadillac and Lincoln were the 2 brands that paid the biggest price from 1990-2000 on Lexus's rise to power. Cadillac and Lincoln were the top selling luxury brands before Lexus got here, now Cadillac is 4th or 5th, Lincoln is probably 7th or 8th. The other element to work in Lexus's favor was the terrible cars that Detroit made in the late 70s and 1980s that pushed so many people to Japanese cars. After 10-15 years driving a Toyota, the trade up to a Lexus was a no brainer. BUT, I think Lexus time on top has come. The RX is still strong and gets 40-59 year olds, but 10 years ago the RX was one of the only small-mid luxury crossovers, now there are a dozen of them. Lexus sedan buyers are an older bunch, and they have trouble attracting younger buyers. Just as Cadillac and Lincoln got the image of being a geezer car in the 1990s, that will be Lexus of the 2010s. I believe for Cadillac to be successful, they need to go after the luxury car buyer of the future. Their lineup has to be what will work in 2015-2025. Look at the decline in the smooth, big luxury car, Grand Marquis/Town Car, Park Ave, LeSabre, Aurora, DTS, even STS, dead. S80, RL, MKS hanging on by a thread. The luxury car market of 2011 looks far different than how it did in 1999 and I think come 2020, it will shift again. Cadillac needs to be ahead of the shift, not chasing after it.

A CTS-V with automatic is 12/18 mpg. S63 AMG is 15/22 mpg and you get 590 lb-ft or 664 lb-ft of torque with the performance package. And the E350 Bluetec gets 33 mpg highway, so that is the most fuel efficient Mercedes.

The AMG 6.3 is being phased out for the new M157 bi-turbo V8 and the M5 is getting a twin-turbo V8, so those will be the engines to measure against. But also by offering something special, I wasn't just meaning on a V-series, I meant whole line up. Even on a lower end Cadillac, there has to be a reason to spend extra for it, if the car is 90% Buick/Chevy, they can't get much of a price premium for that. Then you are just Lexus hoping to sell 3,000 badge jobbed Camrys every month.

Fleet sales do not hurt Mercedes. They almost seem to enhance their reputation as 97% of all governments own an S-class, and over 100 own an armored S-class limo, and many leaders and dignitaries are driven around the fleeted out cars. You may not like how they operate, but they are in 1st place and have been the most successful luxury car brand worldwide over the past 30-40 years. The question is how does Cadillac (circa 2015) put a vehicle lineup, marketing strategy, etc together to compete with the top tier brands. Cadillac staying status quo and hoping for Mercedes to fall apart is not a good plan. You mean having a bunch of orange and beige Mercedes cabs running around Germany doesn't hurt image at all? Apparently not since they sell as well as BMW and Audi with fewer fleet sales. Opel is 61% fleet sales, higher than Mercedes, yet they are still in business and looked at to be the savior of Buick. GM fans here are excited by a $30,000, 182 hp 4-cylinder car because it is imported and new, but they fleet them out in their home market. In the UK, Vauxhall is 55% fleet and the Insignia has 17,000 fleet sales YTD for 2011 while the Passat and Mondeo combined have 19,000. Why do the Buick fans here not complain that the Regal is a fleet queen in Europe? The Insignia is the #1 fleet car in the UK, yet no one is complaining about that. Europe is a fleet heavy continent. And from Mercedes standpoint, do they care if the Bulgarian government pays 100,000 Euro for an S-class or if retired CEO in Belgium pays 100,000 Euro for it? They are making money either way, and they have a very strong brand image with a very loyal customer base. If their image (as well as BMW's or Audi's) was hurting, another luxury brand would break into Europe, but look how badly Cadillac, Lexus and Infiniti fail when they try.

DOHC or not doesn't matter a hill of beans in that regard. For someone who simply wants to go fast with class, power is king, valvetrain configuration is not. But power and going fast doesn't drive the luxury segment either, most luxury sales are to older folks who want comfort and safety. Being special matters though, I think that is part of the appeal to a V10 M5 or a Ferrari that revs to 8500 rpm, an ordinary car can't rev like that or sound like that. If your luxury car goes and sounds like a Camaro or Charger, it isn't as special. Cadillac has to be different and more special than what Buick or Chevy have, otherwise why pay the extra $25,000.

I would mostly agree, but Cadillac is far from that now. BMW and Mercedes are the current brands that the article would apply too. I would say the last couple lines applies to the S-class. For 9 generations it has been the leader everyone is following. And Cadillac of course did live, while Packard did not. Let's hope Cadillac doesn't become Packard, although I think Lincoln is headed in that direction.

You mean Gen Y and the Millenials...plenty of 30-something and 40-something Gen Xers in the luxury market today.. Yes, but may 30 somethings are not yet in the luxury market. Most luxury car brands do attract people in their 50s and up. But from 2015-2030 those 30-45 year olds today will be nearing that age. The ideal car lineup is small ATS at $33-50k, midsize CTS at $45-65k and a rear drive full size sedan of $75-100k. I would add a sports car, doesn't have to be a $100,000 car, a $45,000 roadster could work. A super car would create more image though. I would also add a car below the ATS, but only after a legit flagship was in place. A $27-33,000 hatchback would get them international sales, and get younger buyers in America. Lexus was sort of after that with the CT200, but they made it ugly, boring and slow. Young people don't want that. They got the fuel efficient part right, but it has to be fun too.

In 2007, BMW had the highest percentage of fleet sales in Germany at 67% with Audi right behind them at 66% thus only about 33% going to private customers. By contrast, Mercedes sold 50.1% to private owners. While VW sold 47% to private owners, Ford 41% and Opel 39%. So Mercedes does sell more to private customers than other German domestics. But Mercedes wants fleet sales because their profit margin is very close to their retail sales. Daimler posted $6.3 billion in profit last year and so far 2011 is a record sales year for Mercedes, so they're doing fine. The thing is BMW and Audi are also doing well this year and the German trio is expected to grow and do well in the future. This is why I think Cadillac has to move fast, and expand globally. They can't rely on a North America only strategy, or cater only to past customers. I just read how of the top 10 car brands bought by Gen Y this year, zero are domestics. Gen X and Gen Y may not be in the luxury car market until the 2020s, but when that time comes Cadillac better have something to attract them, because those buyers favor imports heavily. This would be the one case I would approve of a FWD Cadillac, is for a hot hatch type of car like a Golf GTI or Mini but with more luxury.