smk4565

Why is that?

Looks like the same as the current car, aside from the new grille, which is hideous. The tag line for this car could be "the new LS460, now with more Camry!" The 2007 Lexus LS460 looked decent, it was boring, but it at least had a subtle sophistication to it and some elegance. Since it seems like in their desire to make it less boring, it just got uglier and uglier. Just another victim for the S-class now, and the posers that buy a LS460 for $65k because they can't afford and S-class can now buy an Equus, which is better than this thing.

The 2.0T even rated at 260 hp and lb-ft wouldn't be too far off than the 275 hp and 300 lb-ft from the DeVilles. Plus a 6-speed transmission rather than a 4. The 0-60 times would still probably be 7.5 seconds, which is adequate for the type of people that buy an XTS. I think they will probably sell the 2.0T XTS here in time, they definitely need it in China where gas is above $4 a gallon, and that could rise with demand. I think the type of buyer that buys an ATS will be more discriminating of the engine than the typical XTS buyer, so if the 2.0T is good enough for the ATS, it is good enough for the XTS. As long as they always offer a V6 option, because there will be old school buyers that are mad about losing the V8, they may accept a V6, but probably won't buy a 4.

If Hyundai can make a DOHC V8, then Cadillac can. It could be used on the CTS, as well as LTS (if that is the name) and possibly future Escalade or a future sports car. And there could be different tunes obviously, with naturally aspirated and turbo or they could do a couple different displacements also. They need a diesel also.

I must say though, that I am glad Cadillac is going for it, and I'm glad they are trying and aiming big. I'd rather see them go all in and see what happens, rather than be like Lincoln and just sit stagnant waiting to die.

I'm excited for this car and to see what they come up with, but Cadillac hasn't had success in this price range in over 50 years. The Allante, XLR, STS-V all bombed out. Different era, but still, this is territory that GM hasn't been been able to break into. If they can nail this car, it will be huge for Cadillac, both in terms of image, and in terms of developing new technology that can trickle down the line. I am not so sure they can hit a home run on this car though, GM will try to go back to the parts bin to cut costs and cut corners, and if they do it will show. The 2 big problems though are 1: Cadillac has very little international sales presence, while the others do, and 2: Cadillac doesn't have the brand image the others in this class do. Even now, Cadillac's top sedan has a base price of $45k, and in 3 years they want to get people to spend perhaps $90k for a full size sedan, it is a big leap. When the traditional Cadillac buyer walks into a dealer and sees a $45k XTS, and a $90k whatever-TS that are the same size, that could be confusing.

Jaguar leather and wood is excellent, the carpets are good, the interiors are just top notch. Plus Jaguar styling is so good, the XK has been around 6 or 7 years now and still looks amazing. Jaguar in 2009 was #1 JD Power in vehicle dependability, snapping the 14 year streak Lexus had. They were below average in 2010, but #3 in 2011. So they aren't the disaster they used to be. The ATS I'd consider, it is the most appealing Cadillac to me in years. From the photos I think they did get interior build quality up to where it needs to be, but I need to sit in on to see. The 3.6 with RWD should be good, because I thought the CTS felt burdened by the weight, the ATS should solve that problem.

You're not convinced that GM can build a car that can last, yet you run straight to the manufacturer with the absolute shortest testimony on build quality (of which the jury is still out on) just because of a 429hp V8........ You make no sense dude... not that you ever have. Valid point, but the Genesis has a bigger warranty than anyone else, so if something does go wrong it is covered. And as mentioned, they depreciate so they don't cost that much on the used market. The Genesis gives a lot for the money. I'm not saying I'd buy one, but I'd consider one. I'd rather have a Jag, but they cost a lot.

S-class has sold 37,539 in first half of 2012, they say that is the most in the segment. I could only find that the 7-series sold 17,000 the first quarter, so they are close. But the 7-series is new, this generation S-class has been on sale since 2006. Sales will pick up when the new model comes out, they are on pace for 75,000 this year, but when the W221 first came out they were selling over 90,000 a year. The S-class is more expensive than the 7-series also, more revenue comes from it. The S-class was just named world green car of the year as well, so the Volt, Prius and Leaf have been put on notice.

I am not saying Lexus was a failure, it was brilliant marketing on the part of Toyota and they attacked a market that was ripe. Cadillac and Lincoln in the 90s were mostly garbage, Toyota was rising through the 80s and 90s and had buyers looking to trade up, and loads of baby boomers were nearing age 50 (luxury car buying age) around 2000 and it was a perfect storm. Lexus did the first luxury crossover SUV and they dressed up a Camry and those 2 alone were selling about 175,000 vehicles a year in their prime. Lexus really captured the baby boomer market and left Cadillac and Lincoln with the baby boomers parents, which really hurt them in terms of sales and perception. Lexus has a mediocre line up, with a strong perception, so kudos to them for Jedi-mind tricking people into buying their cars. Mercedes and BMW have stronger product and stronger perception though.

The ATS gives me hope for the next CTS, on a midsize car they can do more, bring more power, bolder, more dramatic styling, better interior, etc. The next CTS could be a very exciting car. But I can't afford a car that expensive and wouldn't buy a new car anyway because used ones are such greater value. When I car shop I will probably be looking at 2008-2010 era luxury car, Genesis or Jag XF or something like that. This ATS or the next CTS probably won't hit the used car market by the time I buy a car.

Agreed. GM is building better, but everyone in the market is building better. GM convincing the naysayers will be their biggest challenge. And on luxury cars the badge matters, sometimes more than the car behind it. Nope, if that was the case Lexus would not have had foothold and now stronghold in USA. Perceptions, Perceptions, Perceptions. Lexus did go from nothing to top selling luxury car in the USA in about 10 years, and hold that spot for 8 years or so. They are still number 3 with weak product, just because they have a badge. Lexus's problem is Mercedes and BMW have a better badge on the hood.

What if it doesn't have a V8? (aside from ZL1 trim) Hard to justify the CTS-V being the only Cadillac with a V8, then putting one in the Camaro and Chevy SS which cost much less. CAFE makes GM do weird things. I hope V8s survive, especially on cars regular people can afford. I'd like to see the CTS in non-V form get a V8.

It has a unique look, but I am not really a fan of it. They put a lot of features on this car, but at the end of the day, this is still a Fusion. Although the 2013 Fusion looks better.

Agreed. GM is building better, but everyone in the market is building better. GM convincing the naysayers will be their biggest challenge. And on luxury cars the badge matters, sometimes more than the car behind it.

I have an 01 Aurora, and next year it will probably be time to replace it. I've had it 9 years now, and there is a laundry list of things that have gone wrong, and I have spent thousands to fix them. The build quality and reliability has just been too poor, it makes me reluctant to give GM another chance. This is common, it is why GM once had 40% market share and now has 18%. The ATS on mechanics and specs has a lot I like (aside from the 2.5), but I prefer the C-class in styling in this segment. I think BMWs drive great and are built very well, but I don't care for BMW styling. My question on the ATS is when that car is 10-15 years old will it look and drive similar to when it was new, or will it be falling apart and ready for the scrap yard. GM doesn't have me convinced that their cars are really built to last yet. Interestingly enough, at this price point, I'd probably take a Genesis 5.0 over the ATS or any of the German compacts, because of the 429 hp DOHC V8. That engine with an 8-speed transmission produces more fun factor to me than these V6 cars do, and it is a much roomier car.

Nothing to worry about, the S-class is legendary. It chases no one, yet everyone else benchmarks against it. Lexus spent over a billion dollars in the 80s trying to beat it, and probably a few billion since, and they still can't beat it. Cadillac needs a flagship in a bad way, but the S-class is near unbeatable because of a 40 year reputation of being the global standard.

Automotive journalists may have bias, but the public is even more so biased toward the Germans. You have to give a pretty strong reason not to just by default drive to the BMW or Mercedes dealership in this class. Infiniti came up with a good alternative with the G37, but they are appealing to the people that have gotten too mature for a Civic Si or Mitsubishi Evo or other Japanese rice racer type car. That Japanese loyalist crowd is hard to steal away also. This is why I wouldn't have the Malibu engine or versions without CUE, because Cadillac needs every trim level to be amazing, not just the upper level ones. If there is to be a 3rd engine choice on this car, it should be a diesel. BMW has an M-diesel in Europe, and AMG is working on a diesel (reportedly over 500 hp and 730 lb-ft), I think Cadillac should look into that so they aren't late to the party.

7.5 seconds 0-60 is slow for this segment. Infiniti bagged the wimpy G25, and just because Lexus has a wimpy IS250, doesn't mean Cadillac needs one also. A 328i does 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. That is nearly as quick as the V6 ATS. Cadillac doesn't need a value leader, they are Cadillac, not Chevy. I think they should drop the 2.5 and really go at this with bigger guns. The good news is, this appears to be Cadillac's best effort in years. If they can follow it up with the CTS, and eventually get the wear front drivers out of the line up and bring out a real flagship, then they are on to something. I am glad they are on the right track, but I hope they stay committed to it.

The reviews are very positive, I agree with the ones that said the 2.5 liter doesn't belong The 2.0T should be the base engine, it has the same fuel economy as the 2.5, so it isn't about CAFE. Seems that back seat space and trunk space are small for the segment, but that probably won't hurt sales. I think this car needs to be faster though, and I put some blame on the transmission. Motor Trend had the V6 at 5.7 seconds 0-60, a 328i can do that. Even Cadillac's estimate of 5.4 seconds for the V6 puts them a bit behind the 335i which can do it in 4.7 seconds. An 8-speed transmission would be nice. The interior looks pretty good in real world production car photos. I think it turned out well, not a fan of the snoozeville wheels on the 3.6 model.

I still find the ATS to be a bit bland looking, it just doesn't scream performance, luxury or expensive when I look at it. Maybe it is all photos with red cars that make it look cheap, I don't know. They have a lot of the right ideas as far as size, weight, a 320 hp V6, etc. There are a lot of things to like about the ATS, but even if it is as good as the Germans, and they have good marketing, most will still buy a German car because of image alone. They have a big hill to climb, especially with the CTS when they move it up the price ladder. I just fear that the ATS will be a solid B+ effort, and a B+ effort works in a segment with few players like minivan, or against dated cars like Corolla and Civic, but Cadillac needs and A++ when going against the car that dominated a segment for 30 years.

What has the ATS proved, they haven't even sold one of them yet. BMW over the past 30 years has proved the 3-series is the best car in that class. They did a lot of things right with the ATS, but Lexus also had 2 tries with the IS, and aimed for the correct size, weight, horsepower, etc, and had a shelf full of JD Power awards saying how they build the most reliable car, and they failed. The ATS may be good, I'd like to drive one to find out, but the ATS doesn't have the badge of BMW or Mercedes. If you buy an ATS you still have to justify why you didn't buy a BMW or Benz instead.

To Reg's point on sales, they may sell a lot of Malibus, but I suspect 40% of them will be to rental companies, while the Fusion is going to have people paying sticker. Impala sales will drop considerably from where they are now, but that is a good thing, because I don't think they sold a retail Impala in the past 4 years. I think this new Impala will price around $28k base and ride up to near $40k. I think it will sell more in the 60,000 per year realm, and take some sales from the LaCrosse. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Impala starts as high as $29,875.

Agreed, but I think they want the volume to come by way of the ATS, CTS, SRX, XTS, Escalade and a future Volt variant and flagship sedan. I don't get the feeling that volume will come from $25,000 cars with Cadillac badges just for the sake of volume. I think they want volume from cars at $40,000 and up. At the same time, all these brands want to be #1, Lexus says they will be, Audi wants to be the global #1, etc. But Mercedes has the volume, the profit, the aspiration, the quality, the owner loyalty, etc. They are just better than all these other brands. It is almost like another amusement park saying they want to be #1 and dethrone Disney World, they can dream all they want, but it just isn't going to happen. Well, it is good for us to agree a few days a year at least, lol.

Malibu Eco is not cheap, some of the hybrids are similar in price, and the base Altima has better mileage anyway if you want to live with that CVT, which most of these buyers won't know what that is anyway, they will just read the mpg label. The Malibu LTZ with a 2.0T may solve some problems of the Malibu Eco, but the LTZ will likely top $30k and will not be a lot of volume. The base Malibu and Eco are the trims that produce volume. I really like the new Fusion, still like the Optima and Sonata, and the new Altima has a rather nice interior. Plus the Accord gets redone soon too, and despite them being boring or maybe not even that good, people still buy Camrys and Accords on name alone. GM undershot on the Malibu. Back to the ATS, I don't think they undershot on it, from early reports it seems they at least took most of the necessary steps. But this is Mercedes engineering and safety, Audi interiors, and BMW braking/steering/handling they are going after. Not to mention the reputation of those 3 brands. I think Cadillac can get in the game, but I don't know if they have the big guns to prevail here.