smk4565

Hooray for more diesels. 36 mpg highway for the A8's class is incredible. I don't like Audis but this will prompt others to offer more diesels.

That is terrible. The current design is good, otherwise it wouldn't have lasted 35 years, so why change it.

They need to calm it down on weird segment combinations, and keep the focus on the core models. Sadly though people will buy the X4, because Americans like pointless SUVs. Maybe BMW should spend more time on putting hydraulic steering back into cars rather than making 4-door coupe SUVs.

Why do they have to "risk" money on an ATS or any Cadillac? People aren't risking money on a 3-series, they know what they are getting and they line up to buy them. Plus, the people that would be in the market for the LTS aren't looking at an ATS or 3-series type of car. The types that spend $100k on a big executive sedan aren't looking for nimble handling, they want an isolation chamber to be chauffeured around in. So I don't see the harm in launching both at the same time, they aren't going after the same market. And you don't prove yourself in the entry level, you prove yourself in the big leagues.

Gotta do what you gotta do, but I also wonder why not ZF? Perhaps a bigger question is how isn't their own ready yet when others had them years ago, but they can't let Cadillac go out there with 6-speeds when Hyundai, Chrysler, Jaguar, BMW and Audi have 8, and Mercedes is bringing 9 soon.

Daimler-Benz invented the car, so I guess their image was built from the beginning. But the SL roadsters and S-class and 600 Grosser of the 60's, 70's and even 80's is what cemented the reputation. Cadillac has been around over 100 years too, this isn't some new upstart, either step up or be Lincoln and Acura and wait to die.

I think it's basically because GM doesn't want to do it; there appears to be no long-term drive except to cater to the ATS/CTS/Escalade crowd... It's a management option to go the way they've gone at it for the last 10 years, but an option without any major opportunity for the Cadillac brand to really restablish itself as a world-class reference. The fact is till they get the ATS and CTS best in class why would anyone pony up big money on a LTS? BMW was built pretty much from the 3 series up. They earned a rep on the lower priced cars and then expeanded it and moved the customers up that could afford it. Today Cadillac has the ATS almost there with only a need for some better engines. The new CTS also should prove to be class leading or right at that point. Once the public gets a good feel for these cars the LTS will be ready to be set upon the market. People will risk $40K on an ATS to see how they like it but few will risk $70-100K on a LTS only to find it not of their liking. Please them with the ATS and CTS beyond the others in the market and they will be willing to take the plung on the LTS. The key though is it much not just be a expensive and more expensive Super Sport sedan. BMW took that approach, maybe Audi is to a degree even though the A8 has been around a long time. But Lexus and Mercedes mostly went the other way, top-down. At least Mercedes built the reputation off their top end cars. The thing is luxury cars need image to sell, Infiniti made a really good G37 and M37 and where are they? No flagship, no credibility. The Mercedes C-class is a hot seller because of the work the S-class did over the past 40 years. I agree you need to get the ATS and CTS right first, but really quickly after they need a legit flagship car or halo product, and not another XLR or Allante, but something that gets global respect.

I think ultimate power is not the goal here anyway, the Lexus LS has sold well over the years (usually 2nd or 3rd in the class) and it never was a performance car. And the V12 BMW and Mercedes are selling in tiny numbers, in most cases you have to order it from the factory since they aren't even in dealer stock. I think engine choice is key, the Cadillac flagship needs at least 4 engine options, diesel V6, turbo gas V6, gas V8 (maybe 2 levels of power) and a hybrid or plug-in green option. Mercedes already has a 40+ mpg S-class for Europe and China, and a plug-in S-class is coming, so they can market to the environmental crowd and the performance crowd.

The S-class is as quiet as the Volt at 70 mph and beats it at 50 mph. With either the diesel or the V8 it is 66 dba at 70 mph, and perhaps the next year's model beats that since Lexus and Rolls are lower. So they have the quiet the engine down a lot, then the S-class gets 25 mpg highway, the CTS-V gets 19 mpg, so they need to find another 6 mpg there. Not to mention the S-class is getting a 9-speed transmission next year so fuel economy will likely go up. And Cadillac does not have a V12 (or W12) like Audi, BMW and Mercedes have. It is hard to beat the S-class, Lexus has spend billions over 20 years and all they have is a car that even priced $30k cheaper sells half as many. The S600 does NOT get 25mpg highway, it gets 12/19 and has a 50hp on the CTS-V. The only gasoline S-class to get 25mpg highway is the V6 Hybrid which is not a proper comparison to the CTS-V engine. The Cadillac XTS V6 already does 28mpg highway with more power than the S400 Hybrid and without any of the Hybrid stuff. So as far as engines are concerned, Cadillac seems to be more than safe. I see you've taken your troll pills this morning. The S550 V8 with 429 hp and 516 lb-ft gets 25 mpg highway. The S63 AMG gets 15/23 mpg and has 563 hp and 664 lb-ft, so that is a better engine to compare to the CTS-V, except for the torque difference. I have no doubt that GM can crank a ton of horsepower from an engine, but can they do it efficiently and quietly. The Corvette gets good mileage because it is 3300 lbs, GM has to figure it out how to translate that to a 4500 lb sedan. Plus a lot of this is irrelevant as the S-class is getting redone next year. The current car is entering it's 7th model year and it is still outselling much newer cars from BMW, Jaguar, and Audi. I hope Cadillac does enter this segment, but they have to do it right, and "old GM" thinking won't work. The XLR was supposed to challenge the Mercedes SL and the XLR bombed, they can't repeat those mistakes of cutting corners on powertrain, interior, etc.

Wow! How exciting, I think I will go buy one.

The S-class is as quiet as the Volt at 70 mph and beats it at 50 mph. With either the diesel or the V8 it is 66 dba at 70 mph, and perhaps the next year's model beats that since Lexus and Rolls are lower. So they have the quiet the engine down a lot, then the S-class gets 25 mpg highway, the CTS-V gets 19 mpg, so they need to find another 6 mpg there. Not to mention the S-class is getting a 9-speed transmission next year so fuel economy will likely go up. And Cadillac does not have a V12 (or W12) like Audi, BMW and Mercedes have. It is hard to beat the S-class, Lexus has spend billions over 20 years and all they have is a car that even priced $30k cheaper sells half as many.

I also think Mitsubishi is next, I don't know how they are still alive. The industry is just too competitive and Suzuki and Mitsubishi don't build cars that can compete. I don't think they will be missed.

My point to the CTS-V being loud, is that the CTS-V engine can't be used in a flagship sedan. So Cadillac needs a V8 for performance, and a different V8 that is quiet. Just like the M3 V8 wouldn't work in a 7-series. So taking the CTS-V or ZR1 engine or slapping a turbo on the LS1 I don't see as a viable plan for a big luxury sedan. To dfelt's point as to building what the customer wants, the S-class has been the best selling large luxury car in the world over the past 30 years, so it seems like that is what they want.

Audi, BMW and Mercedes all sell 12 cylinder in their top end car. Porsche, Jaguar and Maserati go with a V8 though, so Cadillac could go the V8 route. Thing is, notice that the M3 V8 isn't used in a 5-series, the M5 V8 not used in the 7-series, the C63 AMG engine not found in an S-class, etc. The current CTS-V engine lacks the NVH needed for a flagship sedan, a CTS-V at 70 mph cruise is louder than the base V6 model. So it isn't as simple as saying the ATS-V or CTS-V engine can be put into a flagship sedan, Cadillac almost needs 2 different V8s.

But at the same time, what have they done? And it is hard to sell a pricey car on just interior without any performance. Unless they are doing a Rolls Phantom level interior and selling that for $60k, I just can't see this car selling. Cadillac is wasting money and resources that could go to a RWD flagship sedan or a true sports car, or a RWD mid size SUV.

The Tesla and Fisker Karma don't sell either, very few people want to pay mega bucks for electric cars. The case for hybrids or high mileage exists more with environmentalists looking to save on transportation costs. Thus why the Prius has been a success and the Lexus attempts flopped. The A8 and 7-series have 6-cylinder power as well, that is going to be coming to all cars. The S400 doesn't make sense, the mileage is too low, the S350 Bluetec makes sense because it has 455 lb-ft and gets 31 mpg. Plus the reliability of diesel and that all appeals to the commercial use of the S-class. My guess though is the V8 crushes those in sales though, gas is cheap here. The diesel S-class is here for CAFE offset of the V12, limo market that wants reliability and high mileage and just in case gas prices rapidly go up. To me, people that pay $60k for a car, or especially $100k for a car don't want slow, they want performance, that is why all these eco-luxury cars don't sell, it is like making an hybrid V6 Corvette, no one wants that, they want a big V8.

This won't be nearly as good as a Tesla Model S from a performance standpoint. The Model S with the best battery/motor combo has a 0-60 time of 3.9 - 4.3 seconds depending on who tested it. That's pretty fast. I am not really sure what this will compete against, there are no other cars that close to it. When you think of $50-60k 2-door sports cars you think Z4, SLK, Boxster/Cayman, even Corvette. Those cars have way more performance than a FWD Volt based car will and 3 of the 4 have good interior too. People that want high MPG usually don't care about luxury, that is why the Lexus HS250h and CT200h bombed, and I don't think I've ever seen an S400 hybrid on the road, but I see S550s every day.

In Europe there is a short wheel base S-class that is 200 inches long; we only have the long wheelbase version here. But there is going to be an even longer version offered as well to replace Maybach. The S-class coupe replaces the CL, and the convertible idea comes from the Ocean Drive concept, which was a 4-door convertible. Should they pull off a 4-door super convertible, it could take them well over the $200,000 price point.

Not sure about the CLA, slumming into FWD I am not a fan of, although, Audi, Lexus, Lincoln, Cadillac, Acura all do it, Mercedes should be better than that. However the A-class and CLA might bring in younger buyers that would otherwise go elsewhere, and if gives Mercedes cash cow cars a feeder system of customers. If the S-class gets a convertible, as is rumored, they will have 6 convertibles. Cadillac doesn't have any, time to get to work.

Agreed, it looks like it is from a 90s Crown Vic or something. The top of the dash with the dual cockpit look and the leather thing above the steering wheel looks too busy. The gauges and center stack look good, but that steering wheel area is a disaster.

Weren't the transmissions for FWD cars only? Or was there to be a rear drive version as well?

What Cadillac really needs is a new transmission. 6-speeds are old news in the luxury market, they should have 8-10, that makes you not need huge engine for quiet highway cruise. Especially in the wake of them pulling the 6-speed manual since every car magazine bashed it. They need a new manual, might as well replace the automatic too. And the 2.0T ATS is slow, not sure if that is the transmission's fault of not, probably is. I still believe Cadillac needs their own DOHC V8, and they should have a Cadillac only turbo or supercharged V6. Audi and Jaguar both have 3.0 liter supercharged V6s, Hyundai is working on a twin turbo 3 liter V6, BMW has a twin turbo six, so it seems like the boosted 3 liter with low end torque paired with an 8-speed is the hot item for mid-range luxury cars. On the top end, you need a V8 though.

Premium fuel and synthetic oil is no big deal for a luxury car, all the German cars require it and people keep buying them. What would you put this engine in though? CTS-V? A Cadillac flagship sedan has to register around 60 dBA at 70 mph, hard for a pushrod engine to do that. Even the Bentley Mulsanne and Brooklands with all their sound deadening run 65-67 DBA, while Rolls Royce Ghost is 63 and the Phantom is 59. The CTS-V is over 70 dba at 70 mph, too noisy to go head to head with an S-class. Bentley is dropping the pushrod also in favor of DOHC for all models. That would leave Cadillac with the engine out of a Corvette/Camaro or Charger, while every other luxury car has something else. Hard to convince the masses why Cadillac is right and 12 other car companies that people pay high premiums for are wrong.

If names didn't matter, Camry and Accord wouldn't dominate the sales chart. Acura and Lincoln names seem too much like alphabet soup, easily lost in the shuffle. I think Cadillac is in danger of going that route, and even Lexus names make no real sense either. The only way to make those names work is use CTS or ES350, etc for 20 years so people just get used to it.

Agreed that Series 60, 70, etc would make more sense than just using random letters. I would rather them use Eldorado, LaSalle, and Seville than the alphabet soup names. Mercedes uses its names for A-segment, B-segment, C-segment, D/E-segment classifications. S-class is for "Sonderklasse" German for Special Class. SL is for sport lightwight, and SLK sport lightweight Kurz (Kurz is Germand for short). So their names make sense aside from CLS which I think they just made up.